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NBRU call for Transport Police

  • 17-06-2018 1:32pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭ Jamie2k9


    https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0617/971144-rail-attacks/
    Iarnród Éireann is no longer safe for passengers or staff as a result of growing violence and anti-social behaviour, according to the head of the National Bus and Rail Union.

    NBRU general secretary Dermot O'Leary was responding to revelations on RTÉ's This Week, that anti-social behaviour had jumped by 43% in a two-year period.

    The union has called on Minister for Transport Shane Ross to establish a dedicated Transport Police, similar to the UK.

    Figures show that there were more than 1,000 separate incidents of anti-social behaviour recorded by Iarnród Éireann since the start of 2017.

    In 2016, there were 492 recorded incidents of anti-social misconduct on rail lines; but by 2017 this had surged to more than 700 incidents.

    The figures show that the number of incidents has risen even further in the first five months of this year - with a rise of 25% when compared to the same period in 2016.

    Not many things I agree with the NBRU on!


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,720 ✭✭✭✭ fullstop


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »



    Not many things I agree with the NBRU on!
    I was thinking the same when I read the headline!


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,442 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    would be interesting as to what people's thoughts would be on whether this should fall under a general traffic corps in the gardai, or be a separate team/force? as they'd need powers of arrest to be properly effective.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,586 ✭✭✭✭ end of the road


    i'm thinking that they should be another unit of the gardai. however they could only be moved to other duties from transport in extreme circumstances.

    julian the journalist asange is innocent, free julian the journalist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 36,084 ✭✭✭✭ ED E


    i'm thinking that they should be another unit of the gardai. however they could only be moved to other duties from transport in extreme circumstances.

    No. No no no.

    The current t situation is the RPU are controlled by Dublin Castle (Traffic Super) but in the area of the local super. Every time a super needs bodies traffic is stripped. Which is always.


    Make a municipal police for Dublin and Cork and deploy em 50/50 streets & transport.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭ devnull


    As stated in the other thread, A transport police is welcome and needed, but ultimately the staff need to get their own house in order too and this shouldn't b allowed to overshadow the problems that are under their control.

    A cynic would suggest that they've picked today of all days to release it as it's somewhat of a distraction and a smokescreen to take the focus off their members and the Irish Rail failings of a few days ago. and instead place the focus on the passengers once more.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,586 ✭✭✭✭ end of the road


    ED E wrote: »
    No. No no no.

    The current t situation is the RPU are controlled by Dublin Castle (Traffic Super) but in the area of the local super. Every time a super needs bodies traffic is stripped. Which is always.

    this would be prohibited from happening with my idea.
    ED E wrote: »
    Make a municipal police for Dublin and Cork and deploy em 50/50 streets & transport.

    i reccan that would be a waste of money. a country our size doesn't need municipal police forces. we just need manpower in the first place.

    julian the journalist asange is innocent, free julian the journalist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭ Jamie2k9


    devnull wrote: »
    As stated in the other thread, A transport police is welcome and needed, but ultimately the staff need to get their own house in order too and this shouldn't b allowed to overshadow the problems that are under their control.

    A cynic would suggest that they've picked today of all days to release it as it's somewhat of a distraction and a smokescreen to take the focus off their members and the Irish Rail failings of a few days ago. and instead place the focus on the passengers once more.

    RTE This Week only airs Sundays so while its good timing I don't see the connection. I also think it may be pre-recorded show.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭ john boye


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    RTE This Week only airs Sundays so while its good timing I don't see the connection. I also think it may be pre-recorded show.

    The show itself is live but some segments can be recorded earlier on Sunday Morning.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    I don't think there neessecarily needs to be a dedicated transport police but definitely a dedicated Garda unit. Every large station such as Connolly, Pearse, Hueston, Cork and Limerick should have a small Garda station. Large stations should have private security teams patrolling the station also who can handover an unruly passenger to the Gardai for arrest. They should also travel on trains.

    A dedicated transport police is unesscary. The reason Britain has the BTP is because they do not have a nationwide police force only regional ones who would be leaving their jurisdiction as the railway covers many different regions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭ SPDUB




    i reccan that would be a waste of money. a country our size doesn't need municipal police forces. we just need manpower in the first place.

    We already had a municipal police force in Dublin , the Dublin Metropolitan Police , until 1925 when Kevin O Higgins decided there should be only one police force in Ireland


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭ Del.Monte


    I think that the present situation where security is farmed out to private operators employing Eastern European (?) heavies - praised by some on here - is extremely unhealthy for all sorts of reasons. A dedicated force staffed by Irish citizens - preferably a new division within the Gardai - is what's needed and should have been done years ago.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 13,996 Mod ✭✭✭✭ monument


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    I think that the present situation where security is farmed out to private operators employing Eastern European (?) heavies - praised by some on here - is extremely unhealthy for all sorts of reasons. A dedicated force staffed by Irish citizens - preferably a new division within the Gardai - is what's needed and should have been done years ago.

    If you’re point isn’t about them being Eastern European, can we please leave the Eastern European bit out of it? Thanks.

    — moderator


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,052 ✭✭✭✭ Del2005


    No point in a dedicated transport police if the results are the same as when arrested by the regular police.

    The problem in this country isn't the front line its the systems behind the front line staff that are rotten to the core.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 21,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    I think that the present situation where security is farmed out to private operators employing Eastern European (?) heavies - praised by some on here - is extremely unhealthy for all sorts of reasons. A dedicated force staffed by Irish citizens - preferably a new division within the Gardai - is what's needed and should have been done years ago.

    I've a few Eastern European born friends who are now Irish Citizens. Those guys could be too. You don't know.

    Ironically you don't need to be an Irish Citizen to join the Gardai. Just a national of any European Economic Area country or Swiss.

    I can't believe I'm agreeing with Dermot here!

    I'd say they should be a completely separate force similar to the British Transport police and also other similar "city police" you find all around the world.

    They should be covering, trains and rail network, luas, bus, airport, but also city center traffic, bus lane enfrocement, taxis, etc.

    They should also do ticket inspection and parking tickets.

    Basically get rid of ticket inspectors, parking wardens and those security guys and use the money instead to pay the Transport Police to do it.

    Gardai can still intervene when they see an issue, but we need a dedicated force so that they don't get constantly pulled into other policing duties.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭ whisky_galore


    I think it matters little who does the policing as long as it's effective.

    tbh I think the problem is a wider social one.

    Scumbags, esp. the hardened ones/repeat offenders aren't afraid of the Gardai anymore. As for the underaged scrotes, they know well the worst that's ever going to happen when caught is a slap on the wrist. Free legal aid and the usual handwringing about 'disadvantaged background' and maybe a sick mother thrown into the mix. IE are a soft target, the staff can do little apart from call Gardaí who may take their sweet time arriving by which time the offenders have most likely already gone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,083 ✭✭✭✭ DaCor


    bk wrote: »
    Basically get rid of ticket inspectors, parking wardens and those security guys and use the money instead to pay the Transport Police to do it.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the roles you mentioned would be paid by IE, CIE, various private companies.

    What you seem to be suggesting is that we create a new force, with sweeping powers, paid for by various companies.

    Is that not, in essence, giving these companies a legitimate police force of their own, paid for by them.

    This would need to be set up very carefully to avoid a situation like that.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 21,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    DaCor wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the roles you mentioned would be paid by IE, CIE, various private companies.

    What you seem to be suggesting is that we create a new force, with sweeping powers, paid for by various companies.

    Is that not, in essence, giving these companies a legitimate police force of their own, paid for by them.

    This would need to be set up very carefully to avoid a situation like that.

    Yes, that is exactly how the British Transport Police work. They are paid for mostly by National Rail, London Underground, etc. They report to the Department of Transport and are directed by them where and how to operate.

    BTW They went through various mergers etc. where they use to be a division of the regular police, but it was found that they were being pulled off their remit into general policing, so they were taken back out to refocus them on their goal.

    Of course, unlike us, the UK has many different police forces, including very specialist forces that focus on financial crime (City of London Police, not to be confused with the Met), Civil Nuclear Constabulary who police near Nuclear power plants, etc. So they are more use to the idea of having specialist services.


  • Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭ Bray Head


    It is an excellent idea. They could also be put in charge of parking enforcement, traffic violations, bus lane infractions, etc, within the confines of specific urban areas. They would have their own distinct mandate, budget and reporting line.

    This stuff just isn't and will never be priority for AGS

    It would probably be cheaper too in the long run. Fine income would increase and they wouldn't need to be on the same wages that guards are on.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭ devnull


    If you have a problem with the post please report it and if it breaches the rules it will be dealt with - do not tackle the poster on thread.

    Moderator


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,083 ✭✭✭✭ DaCor


    The airport police service is the closest thing we have like this

    It wouldn't be a stretch to create another force with policing authority


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    DaCor wrote: »
    The airport police service is the closest thing we have like this

    It wouldn't be a stretch to create another force with policing authority

    There's also The Harbour Police in DL who are more glorified clampers


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,933 ✭✭✭ GM228


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    There's also The Harbour Police in DL who are more glorified clampers

    Both Dublin Port and Dun Laoghaire have them and they are proper police force's with more or less the same powers as Gardaí.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    GM228 wrote: »
    Both Dublin Port and Dun Laoghaire have them and they are proper police force's with more or less the same powers as Gardaí.

    Don't see why DL habour has it's own police force. Completely unesscary. They might have been useful back in the day with the ferry but today they are waste of money. All I have ever seen them do is enforce bylaws regarding fishing and parking.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 21,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    GM228 wrote: »
    Both Dublin Port and Dun Laoghaire have them and they are proper police force's with more or less the same powers as Gardaí.

    Their powers are a little lower then the Gardai. They do have the power to arrest and detain people. But in a case of a criminal offence they would hand the person over to the Gardai, as the Gardai only have the power to investigate criminal cases.

    In the UK the British Transport Police have all the same powers as any other police force, including criminal investigations.

    Actually I see there was a serious accident on the British Rail yesterday, three dead on rail tracks, looks like they might have been painting graffiti and got hit by a train. The BTP are investigating it.

    Here you could potentially follow either model. Though I'd prefer the BTP model, it would give them more teeth. Pros and cons to both approaches.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    Tbh honest I don't see the need for a transport police our railway network is simply too small. Remember Britain has 15,799km of track and 2,564 stations, Ireland only has 2,733km of track and 147 stations. Britain's railway also suffers from a much higher threat than here in Ireland especially from terrorism.

    There is definitely a need for extra Gardai on trains as I said earlier you could a small Garda station in the big stations in Dublin and Cork aswell as patrolling on board trains particularly the DART, Luas, buses and commuter trains in Dublin. They could also be on high risk intercity services which from a high amount of drinking on board.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 21,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Tbh honest I don't see the need for a transport police our railway network is simply too small. Remember Britain has 15,799km of track and 2,564 stations, Ireland only has 2,733km of track and 147 stations. Britain's railway also suffers from a much higher threat than here in Ireland especially from terrorism.

    While agree it should be less focused on just rail, we could and should have a force with a wider remit. Rail, Luas, Metro, but also bus lane and city center enforcement.

    Because it is quite clear that the Gardai do very little to enforce any of these here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,106 ✭✭✭ Working class heroes


    A man who knows he knows nothing knows more than a man who thinks he knows everything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭ Del.Monte



    Nothing to see here. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,106 ✭✭✭ Working class heroes


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Nothing to see here. :rolleyes:

    Sorry, don’t get you.

    A man who knows he knows nothing knows more than a man who thinks he knows everything.



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 353 ✭✭ Creative83



    Somebody is going to get seriously hurt or killed on the route one of these days... I'm a regular on the dart after 7 and every couple of days there is trouble from scrotes.

    Transport police is a necessity now. It's only getting worse


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