Tommy Robinson jailed

thebull85 · 12-06-2018 2:07pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and you would be wrong. As i said history is not on your side. Though it first appeared in the 1960s not the 1950s. It is most definitely a racial slur. But as a tommy supporter you dont want to see that.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6740445.stm

Good article, i still dont believe it was first used in 1960s England, but i have no way of proving otherwise nor is the article proof of origins of the word.

The word has been used by racists we know this, but to say it was originally coined as a racist term is a bit of a stretch.

ohnonotgmail · 12-06-2018 2:14pm

thebull85 wrote: »

Good article, i still dont believe it was first used in 1960s England, but i have no way of proving otherwise nor is the article proof of origins of the word.

The word has been used by racists we know this, but to say it was originally coined as a racist term is a bit of a stretch.

It really isn't. You just dont want to believe that is how it started. The rest of us in the real world know otherwise.

thebull85 · 12-06-2018 2:22pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It really isn't. You just dont want to believe that is how it started. The rest of us in the real world know otherwise.

I dont really care enough about it to "not want to believe" im always happy to be corrected or proved wrong in anything i say. Thats the nature of discussion.

What i dont like is yourself and a few other posters who think no matter what you are always right and anyone that disagrees is wrong, or a nazi or a thicko.

Calling all Tommy Robinson supporters thickos is an extremly naive statement to make..

Odhinn · 12-06-2018 2:28pm

I'll just drop this here.....

An Irish market in Missouri in the United States has been racially attacked, with vandalism telling patrons that "immigrants [aren't] welcome".
The racially motivated attack happened at the site of Browne's Irish Marketplace, listed as Kansas City's oldest business, which has been run for four generations by an Irish immigrant family.

https://www.buzz.ie/news/irish-market-missouri-attacked-immigrants-not-welcome-288540

thebull85 · 12-06-2018 2:34pm

Odhinn wrote: »

I'll just drop this here.....

https://www.buzz.ie/news/irish-market-missouri-attacked-immigrants-not-welcome-288540

Racism exists SHOCKER

12-06-2018 2:37pm

ohnonotgmail wrote:

It really isn't. You just dont want to believe that is how it started. The rest of us in the real world know otherwise.

The family in East is East use it a number of times to refer to other Pakistani people, are they racist?

jooksavage · 12-06-2018 2:38pm

Taytoland wrote: »

Read her book on the gunpowder plot and you will learn more about traitor Guy Fawkes wanting to restore the one true faith which he and his buddies wanted to overthrow England.

Yeah, in f***ing 1605. And the equivalents of Yaxley-Lennon were still banging on about it 200 years later when Catholic emancipation was being introduced.

ohnonotgmail · 12-06-2018 2:41pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The family in East is East use it a number of times to refer to other Pakistani people, are they racist?

Perhaps they are using it in a perjorative manner, i haven't seen east is east. Do you think that makes it acceptable for you to do so?

jooksavage · 12-06-2018 2:45pm

thebull85 wrote: »

Id never call anyone a n*gger, we know the origins of that word. However paki is short for pakistani its a little bit different.

I dont know the origins of the word paki. People will probably say it originated in England in the 50s but id doubt that very much.

When I lived in Rusholme I never heard anyone use that word except drunken white boys falling around the Curry Mile. Most were lucky enough to be ignored. Some were not so lucky. If you're suggesting that the term doesnt have baggage, then you are spectacularly off the mark.

Tom Mann Centuria · 12-06-2018 2:45pm

I grew up in the East Midlands of England in the 70s and 80s and I only ever heard the word paki used as a racist term, so I'd never use it. Horrible word imo then, and worse now since ignorance is no longer an excuse.

12-06-2018 2:47pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Perhaps they are using it in a perjorative manner, i haven't seen east is east. Do you think that makes it acceptable for you to do so?

I'm not saying if it is or is not acceptable but just wondering where you stand on Pakistani people using it? Can a non Pakistani person use the word if they are using it in a pejorative (I assume that is the word you meant) manner?

ohnonotgmail · 12-06-2018 2:49pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not saying if it is or is not acceptable but just wondering where you stand on Pakistani people using it? Can a non Pakistani person use the word if they are using it in a pejorative (I assume that is the word you meant) manner?

The word doesnt have a non pejorative manner. It is entirely racist in origin. I would be surprised at a pakistani person using it but there are thick people everywhere.

jooksavage · 12-06-2018 2:52pm

Jesus, the state of these amateur etymologists explaining away racism.

The_Kew_Tour · 12-06-2018 2:53pm

Claiming you're not a racist by claiming Polish are.

Welcome to boards

12-06-2018 2:55pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The word doesnt have a non pejorative manner. It is entirely racist in origin. I would be surprised at a pakistani person using it but there are thick people everywhere.

Hang on, you were the one suggesting that they may be using it in a pejorative manner. You may want to get your ducks in order and not start falling over yourself.

I think that paki is an awful term and one that should not be used ever but much like the word ******, I find it interesting when it is used in media by those it belittles.

ohnonotgmail · 12-06-2018 2:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Hang on, you were the one suggesting that they may be using it in a pejorative manner. You may want to get your ducks in order and not start falling over yourself.

I think that paki is an awful term and one that should not be used ever but much like the word ******, I find it interesting when it is used in media by those it belittles.

I have not seen east is east. What part of "i have not seen it" did you not understand? I made no definitive statements on how they used it.

thegreengoblin · 12-06-2018 3:06pm

thebull85 wrote: »

Yeah, loyalist nazis waving Irish tricolours.. I dont think so.

As shocking as it may seem to you there are plenty of Irish people who support the likes of Tommy Robinson and they are not nazis.

Have you any stats to back that up or are you just talking through your hoop again?

thebull85 · 12-06-2018 3:14pm

thegreengoblin wrote: »

Have you any stats to back that up or are you just talking through your hoop again?

Would you like me to do a door to door survey for you sir?

thegreengoblin · 12-06-2018 3:17pm

thebull85 wrote: »

Would you like me to do a door to door survey for you sir?

Nah, but some figures to back up your assertion would be nice. Presumably you must know already seeing as you said 'plenty'...

jooksavage · 12-06-2018 3:22pm

thegreengoblin wrote: »

Nah, but some figures to back up your assertion would be nice. Presumably you must know already seeing as you said 'plenty'...

Yeah I'd like to know as well. Most Irish people are blissfully unaware he even exists and the ones who've discussed him with me tend to lean heavily towards the racist scumbag characterization.

thebull85 · 12-06-2018 3:24pm

thegreengoblin wrote: »

Nah, but some figures to back up your assertion would be nice. Presumably you must know already seeing as you said 'plenty'...

I cant back it up with actual figures, no figures exist. In order for there to be statistics people would have to be asked on the street whether they support him or not, or something to effect.

I can only speak from my experience and from what i have seen, most of my friends would support him (which is almost unbelievable to me as they are all ex shinners/ira sympathisers).

I also see on social media many people from my area are supporters. Now im just one man in one area of Ireland. If you do the math id say i would be right in saying "plenty".

thegreengoblin · 12-06-2018 3:26pm

thebull85 wrote: »

I cant back it up with actual figures, no figures exist. In order for there to be statistics people would have to be asked on the street whether they support him or not, or something to effect.

I can only speak from my experience and from what i have seen, most of my friends would support him (which is almost unbelievable to me as they are all ex shinners/ira sympathisers).

I also see on social media many people from my area are supporters. Now im just one man in one area of Ireland. If you do the math id say i would be right in saying "plenty".

:pac::pac::pac:

12-06-2018 3:32pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Perhaps they are using it in a perjorative manner, i haven't seen east is east. Do you think that makes it acceptable for you to do so?

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The word doesnt have a non pejorative manner. It is entirely racist in origin. I would be surprised at a pakistani person using it but there are thick people everywhere.

These two statements contradict each other.

ohnonotgmail · 12-06-2018 3:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

These two statements contradict each other.

Well not really. The word is entirely racist in origin. or do you deny that?

12-06-2018 3:48pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Well not really. The word is entirely racist in origin. or do you deny that?

The issue here atm isn't the word, it's that you say two contradictory things and then ignore it when called on it. How can it bein your words both use in a "perjorative manner" and "the word doesnt have a non pejorative manner".

How can we take anything you say seriously if you cannot even get your own facts right?

ohnonotgmail · 12-06-2018 3:54pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The issue here atm isn't the word, it's that you say two contradictory things and then ignore it when called on it. How can it bein your words both use in a "perjorative manner" and "the word doesnt have a non pejorative manner".

How can we take anything you say seriously if you cannot even get your own facts right?

Clearly you are incapable of a civil discussion so i'll leave it there.

12-06-2018 4:00pm

I know an Arab who gives out about the word Paki in the context of "****in Brits ruining words". :pac:

12-06-2018 4:03pm

ohnonotgmail wrote:

Clearly you are incapable of a civil discussion so i'll leave it there.

Where have I been uncivil? I'm merely asking how we can take you seriously if you contradict yourself so easily?

pitifulgod · 12-06-2018 4:22pm

thebull85 wrote: »

I cant back it up with actual figures, no figures exist. In order for there to be statistics people would have to be asked on the street whether they support him or not, or something to effect.

I can only speak from my experience and from what i have seen, most of my friends would support him (which is almost unbelievable to me as they are all ex shinners/ira sympathisers).

I also see on social media many people from my area are supporters. Now im just one man in one area of Ireland. If you do the math id say i would be right in saying "plenty".

Nigel Farage also had plenty of online fans... Still not an MP, you'll find that you get drawn to people who share the same views as you. Hence the overlap of your Tommy Robinson fan base, the fact that you're behaving so aggressively on here and justifying the usage of racial slurs is pretty telling.

In relation to the term you're annoyed that you're annoyed that you can't use. A Pakistani using it is substantially different to using it. It's more an attempt to reclaim it and flip its meaning, something a non Pakistani can't do tbh. Has happened with other slurs Eg "queer". Tommy Robinson and the other ethnonationalists that you support don't intend to use it in a non offensive way. It's to denigrate and Pakistanis are well aware of the intent.

ohnonotgmail · 12-06-2018 4:24pm

pitifulgod wrote: »

Nigel Farage also had plenty of online fans... Still not an MP, you'll find that you get drawn to people who share the same views as you. Hence the overlap of your Tommy Robinson fan base, the fact that you're behaving so aggressively on here and justifying the usage of racial slurs is pretty telling.

In relation to the term you're annoyed that you're annoyed that you can't use. A Pakistani using it is substantially different to using it. It's more an attempt to reclaim it and flip its meaning, something a non Pakistani can't do tbh. Has happened with other slurs Eg "queer". Tommy Robinson and the other ethnonationalists that you support don't intend to use it in a non offensive way. It's to denigrate and Pakistanis are well aware of the intent.

yeah but FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!

I love how the far right thugs like to see themselves as the victims in all this. the little snowflakes.

ancapailldorcha · 12-06-2018 4:37pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I love how the far right thugs like to see themselves as the victims in all this. the little snowflakes.

I know. It's pathetic. The whole tough guy standing up for freedom act falls apart pretty quickly when it turns out there are consequences for one's acitons.

https://twitter.com/barfi_culture/status/1005852011726802944

thegreengoblin · 12-06-2018 4:40pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I know. It's pathetic. The whole tough guy standing up for freedom act falls apart pretty quickly when it turns out there are consequences for one's acitons.

https://twitter.com/barfi_culture/status/1005852011726802944

Saw that yesterday, or rather heard it, and laughed my head off. Sums them all up.

Grayson · 12-06-2018 5:02pm

thegreengoblin wrote: »

Saw that yesterday, or rather heard it, and laughed my head off. Sums them all up.

That's an obvious member of the master race right there

thebull85 · 12-06-2018 6:04pm

pitifulgod wrote: »

Nigel Farage also had plenty of online fans... Still not an MP, you'll find that you get drawn to people who share the same views as you. Hence the overlap of your Tommy Robinson fan base, the fact that you're behaving so aggressively on here and justifying the usage of racial slurs is pretty telling.

In relation to the term you're annoyed that you're annoyed that you can't use. A Pakistani using it is substantially different to using it. It's more an attempt to reclaim it and flip its meaning, something a non Pakistani can't do tbh. Has happened with other slurs Eg "queer". Tommy Robinson and the other ethnonationalists that you support don't intend to use it in a non offensive way. It's to denigrate and Pakistanis are well aware of the intent.

I wasnt acting aggressively i just dislike people on here name calling from their safe space, and challenged one or two to name call in the real world.

Also them labelling all Tommy Robinson supporters as thickos and racists, if i said all muslims were terrorists they would attack me(rightly so). Its bit hypocritical of them.

Also im not annoyed at not being able to use the word if i wanted to use it i would, im not looking for approval from the resident know alls on here.

ohnonotgmail · 12-06-2018 6:07pm

thebull85 wrote: »

I wasnt acting aggressively i just dislike people on here name calling from their safe space, and challenged one or two to name call in the real world.

Also them labelling all Tommy Robinson supporters as thickos and racists, if i said all muslims were terrorists they would attack me(rightly so). Its bit hypocritical of them.

Also im not annoyed at not being able to use the word if i wanted to use it i would, im not looking for approval from the resident know alls on here.

The problem with that is that i have yet to see a tommy supporter who isnt thick but i know plenty of muslims that aren't terrorists.

Grayson · 12-06-2018 6:08pm

thebull85 wrote: »

I wasnt acting aggressively i just dislike people on here name calling from their safe space, and challenged one or two to name call in the real world.

Also them labelling all Tommy Robinson supporters as thickos and racists, if i said all muslims were terrorists they would attack me(rightly so). Its bit hypocritical of them.

Also im not annoyed at not being able to use the word if i wanted to use it i would, im not looking for approval from the resident know alls on here.

There's a huge amount of variation in the mulsim population. Also terrorism is an action, not a belief. Whereas his supporters are a small number of people who do follow a far narrower belief set.

It's therefore possible to make more accuracy descriptions about his supporters than it is about muslims.

It's still not possible to say all, but you can at least be a bit more accurate.

(that's not making any statement about any group, just pointing out that because of the differences in demographics your comparison is inaccurate.

thebull85 · 12-06-2018 6:08pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

but i know plenty of muslims that aren't terrorists.

Thats what you think

WinnyThePoo · 12-06-2018 6:12pm

thebull85 wrote: »

Thats what you think

You think all Muslims must be held in suspicion?.

thebull85 · 12-06-2018 6:13pm

Grayson wrote: »

There's a huge amount of variation in the mulsim population. Also terrorism is an action, not a belief. Whereas his supporters are a small number of people who do follow a far narrower belief set.

It's therefore possible to make more accuracy descriptions about his supporters than it is about muslims.

It's still not possible to say all, but you can at least be a bit more accurate.

(that's not making any statement about any group, just pointing out that because of the differences in demographics your comparison is inaccurate.

Fair enough.. So both the "all muslims are terrorists" and "all tommy supporters are racist" statements are inaccurate.

But is it ok that the racist statement is always made on here about Tommy supporters even though its obviously false?

thebull85 · 12-06-2018 6:14pm

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

You think all Muslims must be held in suspicion?.

No of course not.

thebull85 · 12-06-2018 6:20pm

pitifulgod wrote: »

you'll find that you get drawn to people who share the same views as you. Hence the overlap of your Tommy Robinson fan base

Im talking about childhood friends here and people from the area i live in that i know but im not friends with.

Omackeral · 12-06-2018 6:28pm

FTA69 wrote: »

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/free-tommy-robinson-rally-in-belfast-photos-36994601.html

Lol. Look at these proud sons of Ulster here.

In one picture you've a gobsh*te doing a Nazi salute and literally a few feet away from him you have a fella wearing a Star of David jumper with an Israel flag... and they're on the same side. You couldn't make it up!

pitifulgod · 12-06-2018 6:30pm

thebull85 wrote: »

I wasnt acting aggressively i just dislike people on here name calling from their safe space, and challenged one or two to name call in the real world.

Also them labelling all Tommy Robinson supporters as thickos and racists, if i said all muslims were terrorists they would attack me(rightly so). Its bit hypocritical of them.

Also im not annoyed at not being able to use the word if i wanted to use it i would, im not looking for approval from the resident know alls on here.

The Muslim comparison doesn't really work. Robinson is categorically a racist and has been a member of numerous groups that are racist. So you can break the categories down to racist, willfully ignorant (that tends to overlap with first heavily) and then finally absolute idiots.

Finally, in relation to the term. You ignore at every time why it's classified as a racial slur. Football hooligans such as Tommy have a long history of shouting it. Sounds like you need the aforementioned safe space given all your rage. :P

thebull85 · 12-06-2018 6:44pm

pitifulgod wrote: »

Sounds like you need the aforementioned safe space given all your rage. :P

You call that rage LOL, you must live a very sheltered existence.

Taytoland · 12-06-2018 6:57pm

jooksavage wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

Read her book on the gunpowder plot and you will learn more about traitor Guy Fawkes wanting to restore the one true faith which he and his buddies wanted to overthrow England.

Yeah, in f***ing 1605. And the equivalents of Yaxley-Lennon were still banging on about it 200 years later when Catholic emancipation was being introduced.

It's not easy to forget such actions and of course seeing how the Church turned out for the Irish Republic it was a good idea not letting the Catholic Church get a grip on the crown.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 12-06-2018 6:58pm

Taytoland wrote: »

Read her book on the gunpowder plot and you will learn more about traitor Guy Fawkes wanting to restore the one true faith which he and his buddies wanted to overthrow England.

Genuine martyr.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 12-06-2018 6:59pm

Taytoland wrote: »

It's not easy to forget such actions and of course seeing how the Church turned out for the Irish Republic it was a good idea not letting the Catholic Church get a grip on the crown.

Ack nonsense. The U.K. was as religious, if not more so, for most of its history.

pitifulgod · 12-06-2018 7:09pm

thebull85 wrote: »

You call that rage LOL, you must live a very sheltered existence.

Methinks you're not particularly able to deal with any points...

jooksavage · 12-06-2018 8:55pm

Taytoland wrote: »

It's not easy to forget such actions and of course seeing how the Church turned out for the Irish Republic it was a good idea not letting the Catholic Church get a grip on the crown.

So in response to the comparison of the Yaxley-Lennon mob to murderous 19th century anti-Catholic rioters, rather than dispute the comparison, you approve and have chosen to argue that the bigoted ringleaders were actually right...? Huh?

This makes you something of an outlier as far historical opinion on the matter goes. I suspect you'll be similarly off the mark when future historians take stock of historical footnotes like YL. (This is to say nothing of the fact that you had to rummage through 5 centuries to come up with 4 examples of Catholic treachery)

dense · 13-06-2018 10:59am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Ack nonsense. The U.K. was as religious, if not more so, for most of its history.

More so

Her Majesty the Queen is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England. The Queen appoints archbishops, bishops and deans of cathedrals on the advice of the Prime Minister.

https://www.churchofengland.org/about/leadership-and-governance

Tommy Robinson jailed

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