Ireland Team Talk Thread IX: Grand Slam Champions SEE MOD WARNING POST #1122

shootermacg · 09-06-2018 05:51PM

salmocab wrote: »

Do you actually think PoM isn’t first choice behind Conan?

I was waiting for this, I am sorry to include PoM in my first sentence. I am sorry I pray for forgiveness from the god of Pedantry!

:P:P:P:P:P:P:P

Buer · 09-06-2018 05:56PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Buer wrote: »

The scrum on our line was a seriously dubious call. Watch it again. The scrum simply went through 90. There was almost no forward/backward movement. Every other scrum was completely rock solid.

I'll watch it again, I thought we had compressed and then gone back a bit. I thought Australia were definitely dominant in the scrum, even if it wasn't a penalty.

Regardless, I felt it was an area where we would dominate in the final 20 and that wasn't at all the case.

As I posted earlier though, what were people basing this on? That Australian front five were absolute monsters. Their sub tighthead is 135kg. We were never going to shove them about in the scrum.

salmocab · 09-06-2018 05:58PM

shootermacg wrote: »

I was waiting for this, I am sorry to include PoM in my first sentence. I am sorry I pray for forgiveness from the god of Pedantry!

:P:P:P:P:P:P:P

In fairness it kinda ruined your point

shootermacg · 09-06-2018 06:00PM

salmocab wrote: »

In fairness it kind of ruined your point

There, I fixed your post.

sydthebeat · 09-06-2018 06:38PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

I like your thinking mac lash!..
However, the only players I think are being usurped from your list are best, heaslip and possibly Payne. And none of them are irreplaceable, especially seeing as best is injured. Payne and heaslip are gone, next in line are actually better

I was hammered last night posting this, no recollection of doing it.
I've no idea what I was trying to say......

Clegg · 09-06-2018 06:45PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

I was hammered last night posting this, no recollection of doing it.
I've no idea what I was trying to say......

I think you were saying Sexton > RoG

sydthebeat · 09-06-2018 06:59PM

Clegg wrote: »

I think you were saying Sexton > RoG

Carbery > Sexton > rog

AbusesToilets · 09-06-2018 08:06PM

salmocab wrote: »

Do you actually think PoM isn’t first choice behind Conan?

He shouldn't be, full strength Irish team, I wouldn't have him in the 23.

The Lost Sheep · 09-06-2018 08:08PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

He shouldn't be, full strength Irish team, I wouldn't have him in the 23.

Really behind which 4?
I think he needs to be in full strength 23.

AbusesToilets · 09-06-2018 08:11PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Really behind which 4?
I think he needs to be in full strength 23.

6 - Ruddock/ SOB/ Stander

7 - Leavy/ SOB/ JVdF

8 - Stander/ Conan/ Murphy

All offer more than POM imo

The Lost Sheep · 09-06-2018 08:13PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

6 - Ruddock/ SOB/ Stander

7 - Leavy/ SOB/ JVdF

8 - Stander/ Conan/ Murphy

All offer more than POM imo

O Mahony offers something quite different at 6 than each of those. Isnt probably a 7 but alright cover from bench if necessary and more than a good enough 8

awec · 09-06-2018 08:13PM

I'd drop Stander before I dropped POM.

AbusesToilets · 09-06-2018 08:16PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

O Mahony offers something quite different at 6 than each of those. Isnt probably a 7 but alright cover from bench if necessary and more than a good enough 8

Can you quantify what that is, exactly? To my eyes, his only standout ability is in the lineout, which isn't unique relative to his peers. He isn't particularly physically dominant, he's not a groundhog and he's fairly non-existent with ball in hand.

Trademark Angry Face aside, there are better options available.

Clegg · 09-06-2018 08:48PM

I think you can have one of PoM or Jordi in the backrow, but not both. They're the kinds of players that play their best with two brutes alongside them in the backrow.

PoM is very good at slowing ball down at the ruck and at the lineout. But he's not a carrier and doesn't rack up huge numbers tackle wise. Jordi has a high workrate but doesn't have the physicality at test level to latch himself over the ball. He's a good carrier, but one whose strengths lie in line running and pace. He's not one to make a hard yard from a static start.

Faugheen · 09-06-2018 09:01PM

Think we needed Rhys Ruddock out there to be honest.

Absolutely baffling decision to leave him at home.

09-06-2018 09:04PM

Faugheen wrote: »

Think we needed Rhys Ruddock out there to be honest.

Absolutely baffling decision to leave him at home.

Eh, I'm a massive Ruddock fan and would consider him very much in an Ireland 23 conversation but I can completely understand why he was left home. He's had no rugby and he's a player that always needs a fair few games to properly get going. He can't use away test internationals against tier 1 opposition for conditioning.

AbusesToilets · 10-06-2018 12:04AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Eh, I'm a massive Ruddock fan and would consider him very much in an Ireland 23 conversation but I can completely understand why he was left home. He's had no rugby and he's a player that always needs a fair few games to properly get going. He can't use away test internationals against tier 1 opposition for conditioning.

I see your point, but I'd definitely have had him ahead of Roux, who is a far more limited player. He'd be a very handy bench option at the moment.

clsmooth · 10-06-2018 12:21AM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I see your point, but I'd definitely have had him ahead of Roux, who is a far more limited player. He'd be a very handy bench option at the moment.

They do play different positions though. Roux seems a real JS favourite. Don’t quite see the fuss about him myself. Does what he supposedly brings to the scrum justify his selection?

Psteve232 · 10-06-2018 12:57AM

mfceiling wrote: »

sydthebeat wrote: »

I like your thinking mac lash!..
However, the only players I think are being usurped from your list are best, heaslip and possibly Payne. And none of them are irreplaceable, especially seeing as best is injured. Payne and heaslip are gone, next in line are actually better

I'm not sure if Carberry is better than Jackson tbh.

+1

Johnny Farango · 10-06-2018 01:10AM

O'Mahoney provides lineout ball, is good on the ground, fights like a dog, plays smart and is a great leader according to professional players. Don't know who you're replacing him with but I thought he was a standout player for us today.

Johnny Farango · 10-06-2018 01:11AM

I actually thought he was our best player!

Johnny Farango · 10-06-2018 01:12AM

Leavey and Beirne should come in next week, specifically to counter Hooper and Pocock, the 3 lads will negate them.

macslash · 10-06-2018 04:30AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

I was hammered last night posting this, no recollection of doing it.
I've no idea what I was trying to say......

Phew! I'm not the only one ðŸ˜‰

ArmchairQB · 10-06-2018 08:04AM

Faugheen wrote: »

Think we needed Rhys Ruddock out there to be honest.

Absolutely baffling decision to leave him at home.

yeah Ruddock & Leavy would have made a big difference but leaving Ruddock at home to get rid of all his niggles and to heal up properly will be worth it in the long run.

We didn’t match their physicality & Henshaw won’t be as bad in defence again plus Ringrose will bring better organisation to the defence and more options and pace in attack, add in Sexton and this series should go to game 3 tied up

Burkie1203 · 10-06-2018 08:48AM

Johnny Farango wrote: »

O'Mahoney provides lineout ball, is good on the ground, fights like a dog, plays smart and is a great leader according to professional players. Don't know who you're replacing him with but I thought he was a standout player for us today.

PoM was good. But i wouldnt say he was a stand. Overall performance was fairly ordinary.

Kearney mixed the good with 3 or 4 bad mistakes

Aki was comprehensively outplayed by Beale. The difference was massive.

Henshaw had a mare. He is a 12. Ringrose the best 13 we have by a bit of a distance.

Our backrow was poor. Stander carried plenty but the Aussies were happy to do what Leinster do v Munster and set the defence line and then get up hard in a line.

Jordi was very poor I thought.

Ryan and Henderson went well. Ryan is healthy in 2021 he could be Lions captain.

John Ryan surprised me a little. Best performance from him in quite a while and he repaid that faith in him . Herring is very under rated but is a very good player.

Game turned on a few moments in 2nd half

1. Stander not getting ball down. Still don't know why he went to his left with it
2. Sexton missing touch. Unforgivable at 9-8. Win that lineout and get over the line could have been the game

Buer · 10-06-2018 08:53AM

In addition to those moments, I would add the passage after Stander was held up. We were absolutely clueless.

The ball stayed at the base of the scrum for an age; we looked like we didn't have a clue what our plan was and Stander and Murray left it to one another. From there we simply went backwards more and more. Our back line looked so disjointed and inaccurate before turning over possession.

swiwi_ · 10-06-2018 09:17AM

Buer wrote: »

In addition to those moments, I would add the passage after Stander was held up. We were absolutely clueless.

The ball stayed at the base of the scrum for an age; we looked like we didn't have a clue what our plan was and Stander and Murray left it to one another. From there we simply went backwards more and more. Our back line looked so disjointed and inaccurate before turning over possession.

World's best coach (as per World Rugby 2015), got one over Schmidt. Aside from relentless recycling, box-kicks and the odd attacking move off phase ball, there is not too much to Ireland's attack. In particular, off multiphase plays or counter-attacking ball, Ireland don't offer a lot. We know this already, as Ireland have already dominated games with possession and territory, while coming up short on the scoreboard, most notably against NZ in Dublin.

Schmidt has set out his stall, I don't seem him changing the low-risk, multiphase ruck, one-off runners approach, but man I'm looking forward to the 2nd test to see what Ireland and Australia bring.

Edna_Ennky · 10-06-2018 09:38AM

I think it is about time that Joe Schmidt appointed a backs coach to the Ireland coaching ticket. Once again we looked rudderless, clueless and shapeless with our attack play so narrow. Our attack strategy seems centered on our back row and our center partnership going the direct route one, crashing over the gainline.

People that criticize Earls and Stockdale must understand that under the direct hard running, attritional style that we play that it does not give our backline a chance to express ourselves. They simply don't get enough of the ball and it must be so frustrating for them. Using brute force as a number one weapon for our attack simply won't cut it in international rugby. If people think that Schmidt will change philosophy over the next 15 months to the World Cup then you will be very disappointed. Finally on this issue of our lack of ambition the continued lack of offloads is simply an issue that is not going away.

Another thing that I noticed not just during yesterday but throughout the 6N is the continued poor performances of Peter O'Mahony in a Irish shirt. I think that Schmidt alienating Simon Zebo who like POM is a proud Corkman and the questions in not awarding Donnacha Ryan a new contract with Irish Rugby before he moved to Racing 92 last year, I think has affected POM. Now I know that Simon is a a shadow of his former self but nevertheless Zebo's strong opinions on Schmidt's style of management is telling. I also believe that POM like many of our Lions contingent needs a break and personally should not have been considered for selection for this tour.

Burkie1203 · 10-06-2018 09:47AM

Edna_Ennky wrote: »

Another thing that I noticed not just during yesterday but throughout the 6N is the continued poor performances of Peter O'Mahony in a Irish shirt. I think that Schmidt alienating Simon Zebo who like POM is a proud Corkman and the questions in not awarding Donnacha Ryan a new contract with Irish Rugby before he moved to Racing 92 last year, I think has affected POM. Now I know that Simon is a a shadow of his former self but nevertheless Zebo's strong opinions on Schmidt's style of management is telling.

1. Zebo this very week said he wasn't putting his life on hold for the rwc. He wanted to go. Nobody alienated Zebo but Zebo. His media remarks since have been nothing but dumb. If you want to win a place in the squad you dont go crying to the media.

2. Donnacha Ryan wanted to go. He said as much himself. He was offered a contract to stay btw.

Edna_Ennky · 10-06-2018 09:56AM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

1. Zebo this very week said he wasn't putting his life on hold for the rwc. He wanted to go. Nobody alienated Zebo but Zebo. His media remarks since have been nothing but dumb. If you want to win a place in the squad you dont go crying to the media.

2. Donnacha Ryan wanted to go. He said as much himself. He was offered a contract to stay btw.

I was under the impression that in relation to point two that Ryan wanted to remain with Munster. But as you said that if Ryan wanted to leave then fair enough. However the opinion that I still believe to be the case today that the IRFU prioritized keeping Jamie Heaslip in these shores and did not go the extra mile to keep Ryan in Ireland. That is my opinion and I look forward to hearing what views people have on this issue.

Ireland Team Talk Thread IX: Grand Slam Champions SEE MOD WARNING POST #1122

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