Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

slingerz · 08-06-2018 10:59AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I suppose it's only a waste of an NIQ spot if they actually sign enough other NIQs to take them to the limit!

Also, in truth he's almost exactly as NIQ as Keatley is. If Ulster can't get an Irish option there then some special dispensation should be given.

Keatley would be closer to what Ulster need than Cooper. Steady if unspectacular allowing Ulster to concentrate more on improving options in the pack. Its upfront that Ulster really have struggles and not amongst the backline players

launish116 · 08-06-2018 11:01AM

slingerz wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I suppose it's only a waste of an NIQ spot if they actually sign enough other NIQs to take them to the limit!

Also, in truth he's almost exactly as NIQ as Keatley is. If Ulster can't get an Irish option there then some special dispensation should be given.

Keatley would be closer to what Ulster need than Cooper. Steady if unspectacular allowing Ulster to concentrate more on improving options in the pack. Its upfront that Ulster really have struggles and not amongst the backline players

Bar loose head & 2nd row, the forwards aren't the worst next season, probably our strongest element.
Our backline is 1 or 2 more injuries from melt down.

Former Former · 08-06-2018 11:02AM

launish116 wrote: »

Common sense won't prevail and we won't have the help Munster get until we're in financial difficulties

You mean like having players redirected from another province to fill gaps in the squad? No, that is reserved exclusively for Munster.

MJohnston · 08-06-2018 11:03AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not trying to bait anyone into a discussion on the trial. I've no desire to have that conversation myself, it's been done here and elsewhere.

I'm merely pointing out that fact that the outcome of the trial did not give anyone ownership of the truth. No one outside those involved knows exactly what happened, plenty think they do or have painted a picture in their mind but no one actually knows and that is absolute fact.

In light of this you have to allow a benefit of the doubt, you can't forcefully amputate two home grown favourites from any kind of discussion because of what 'could' have happened, it's not reasonable or objective.

Surely you can discuss the merits of this position without being drawn into a conversation of the facts of the trial no?

If you truly believe that, then you must also understand that there are plenty of Ulster supporters out there (and right here) who find talk like you referring to "saddo's on twitter" (ie. people who don't agree with you) distasteful and discouraging.

In addition, if you truly believe that, you must know that there are supporters out there who side with the accuser, and find the celebratory nature of the two being able to "move on with their lives" disheartening. I don't have any objection to the actual news, that's for Perpignon fans to debate, but when I see people posting that they're 'happy for them'...well if you truly want to be objective about it all, then you must accept that there's the possibility that there's still a victim out there who doesn't get to move on.

Dubinusa · 08-06-2018 11:07AM

Good luck to PJ and Olding. Hope they thrive in France.
Can't see how Keatley would move to Ulster. He's settled in Limerick with a family. Hanrahan may be inclined to move. Either way it's **** and piss for Ulster.

launish116 · 08-06-2018 11:11AM

Former Former wrote: »

launish116 wrote: »

Common sense won't prevail and we won't have the help Munster get until we're in financial difficulties

You mean like having players redirected from another province to fill gaps in the squad? No, that is reserved exclusively for Munster.

Or letting us sign injury cover when we desperately needed it?

Cooney approached us? Jordi was approached, not asked by IRFU

awec · 08-06-2018 11:13AM

Buer wrote: »

Something absolutely has to give if TB recovers. Munster cannot have 5 lads in the senior squad vying for the one jersey. It doesn't really matter if some of them can cover other positions given they've just signed a full back and have 4 high quality centres on the books also.

I wouldn't be surprised if conversations have already taken place with Keatley in relation to a move. But the fact that Ulster are clearly courting a foreign signing suggests that any approach (if made) was not successful.

It's a bit of a silly situation. Munster will be paying a small fortune to have all of those guys on their books and Ulster are in bad need of another outhalf.

Ulster are reluctant on Keatley.

Honestly if it were me I'd take Keatley, but not seem too happy about it, and then use that to get the IRFU to let us splash the cash on a few forwards. We desperately need a loosehead.

irishbucsfan · 08-06-2018 11:13AM

launish116 wrote: »

Or letting us sign injury cover when we desperately needed it?

Loads of these rumours going round

awec · 08-06-2018 11:14AM

launish116 wrote: »

Throw in the U20's form and I really don't think Dalton/Hume are gonna cut it at the next level, I've been crucified for comments on Hall also but I still don't see it. Agnew has jumped him in pecking order.

I wouldn't put too much stock in U20 form. I can see why Hume is rated, but I've never really seen why Dalton is rated so highly.

08-06-2018 11:14AM

MJohnston wrote: »

"saddo's on twitter"

Twitter is full of saddo's on every side of every debate. I find the purposeful harassment of individuals or anyone who considers associating with them to be quite sad. I'd say you probably agree, no?

MJohnston wrote: »

In addition, if you truly believe that, you must know that there are supporters out there who side with the accuser, and find the celebratory nature of the two being able to "move on with their lives" disheartening. I don't have any objection to the actual news, that's for Perpignon fans to debate, but when I see people posting that they're 'happy for them'...well if you truly want to be objective about it all, then you must accept that there's the possibility that there's still a victim out there who doesn't get to move on.

Again, you completely miss my point. I don't believe her or them. Someone is lying, but without more evidence it's not possible for anyone to say with enough certainty what happened to the point that you can summarily blacklist discussion of two individuals. It's fine if you want to 'side with her', If she was in the public domain and was seen moving on with her life I'd have the same sentiment towards her as I do towards the players.

I hold the opinion (and I think it's pretty common on here) that without knowing one way or the other - you give everyone the same benefit of the doubt, them and her.

Anyway, the thread is moving on - I'll leave it there, for now.

awec · 08-06-2018 11:15AM

launish116 wrote: »

Bar loose head & 2nd row, the forwards aren't the worst next season, probably our strongest element.
Our backline is 1 or 2 more injuries from melt down.

We're going to be heavily reliant on academy and club backs next year it seems.

molloyjh · 08-06-2018 11:18AM

launish116 wrote: »

Common sense won't prevail and we won't have the help Munster get until we're in financial difficulties

Munster got those injury cover exceptions because they had signed 3 Irish guys who were playing abroad (Farrell, Harte and Arnold). They looked for temporary cover to tide them over until those IQ guys arrived. So they had a card to play in their negotiations with the IRFU. What cards do Ulster have to play?

awec · 08-06-2018 11:20AM

molloyjh wrote: »

Munster got those injury cover exceptions because they had signed 3 Irish guys who were playing abroad (Farrell, Harte and Arnold). They looked for temporary cover to tide them over until those IQ guys arrived. So they had a card to play in their negotiations with the IRFU. What cards do Ulster have to play?

They signed Arnold from Ulster.

Former Former · 08-06-2018 11:21AM

launish116 wrote: »

Or letting us sign injury cover when we desperately needed it?

Cooney approached us? Jordi was approached, not asked by IRFU

While not strictly injury cover, Ulster signed Christian Lealiifano this season.

I know Ulster have a lot of problems, but the idea that IRFU are giving Munster preferential treatment is just not true and the constant peddling of this idea is just going to turn more and more Ulster fans against IRFU and drive even more of a wedge between Ulster fans and the national team.

launish116 · 08-06-2018 11:22AM

awec wrote: »

launish116 wrote: »

Throw in the U20's form and I really don't think Dalton/Hume are gonna cut it at the next level, I've been crucified for comments on Hall also but I still don't see it. Agnew has jumped him in pecking order.

I wouldn't put too much stock in U20 form. I can see why Hume is rated, but I've never really seen why Dalton is rated so highly.

Hume form for U20 was poor, yet to see what the hype is from limited viewing. Realistically we really need him to progress!
Dalton is athletically ready, but was dropped for U20's. He seems to be up and down., thought his 6n's was far better.We all know he's not from a rugby background. But he really need's to get his basics nailed down asap, his tackling and handling are very poor.

awec wrote: »

launish116 wrote: »

Bar loose head & 2nd row, the forwards aren't the worst next season, probably our strongest element.
Our backline is 1 or 2 more injuries from melt down.

We're going to be heavily reliant on academy and club backs next year it seems.

Which is very very worrying! Should lured Jesse Mogg before he went Pau

molloyjh · 08-06-2018 11:22AM

awec wrote: »

They signed Arnold from Ulster.

D'oh. Don't know why I though Arnold had gone abroad.

Either way, the point still stands. They were playing the game that the IRFU wanted them to play. Ulster are not.

launish116 · 08-06-2018 11:24AM

Former Former wrote: »

launish116 wrote: »

Or letting us sign injury cover when we desperately needed it?

Cooney approached us? Jordi was approached, not asked by IRFU

While not strictly injury cover, Ulster signed Christian Lealiifano this season.

I know Ulster have a lot of problems, but the idea that IRFU are giving Munster preferential treatment is just not true and the constant peddling of this idea is just going to turn more and more Ulster fans against IRFU and drive even more of a wedge between Ulster fans and the national team.

Coetzee situation says it all 3 season deal and injured 2, cover refused. Munster were allowed how many NIQ centres?
looking at incoming season Ulster could end up exact same injury depending.

awec · 08-06-2018 11:27AM

molloyjh wrote: »

D'oh. Don't know why I though Arnold had gone abroad.

Either way, the point still stands. They were playing the game that the IRFU wanted them to play. Ulster are not.

We accepted Jordi Murphy in his desire to play for Ulster. We took in John Cooney. We gave a home to Alan O'Connor, Clive Ross, Nick Timoney and Dave Shanahan.

Ulster have helped many despondent mexicans. When do we get our rewards?

Former Former · 08-06-2018 11:33AM

launish116 wrote: »

Coetzee situation says it all 3 season deal and injured 2, cover refused. Munster were allowed how many NIQ centres?
looking at incoming season Ulster could end up exact same injury depending.

Jean Deysel was signed as cover.

Yes, Munster got a break in being allowed to have both Taute and Saili on the roster - but they had already lined up Chris Farrell to come home, so there's a trade-off there.

molloyjh · 08-06-2018 11:36AM

awec wrote: »

We accepted Jordi Murphy in his desire to play for Ulster. We took in John Cooney. We gave a home to Alan O'Connor, Clive Ross, Nick Timoney and Dave Shanahan.

Ulster have helped many despondent mexicans. When do we get our rewards?

When you start pushing to have guys who could play for Ireland in your set-up? Cooney approached you guys let's not forget. The others are hardly international level. About the only player you've actively brought in has been Murphy. Asking for multiple foreign players on long term contracts off the back of that isn't all that reasonable.

The whole "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" idea. What have Ulster contributed to Ireland in the last few years?

MJohnston · 08-06-2018 11:43AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I hold the opinion (and I think it's pretty common on here) that without knowing one way or the other - you give everyone the same benefit of the doubt, them and her.

Except you haven't demonstrated that at all on here.

launish116 · 08-06-2018 11:43AM

molloyjh;107209057

awec wrote: »

We accepted Jordi Murphy in his desire to play for Ulster. We took in John Cooney. We gave a home to Alan O'Connor, Clive Ross, Nick Timoney and Dave Shanahan.

Ulster have helped many despondent mexicans. When do we get our rewards?

When you start pushing to have guys who could play for Ireland in your set-up? Cooney approached you guys let's not forget. The others are hardly international level. About the only player you've actively brought in has been Murphy. Asking for multiple foreign players on long term contracts off the back of that isn't all that reasonable.

The whole "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" idea. What have Ulster contributed to Ireland in the last few years?

Captain? most capped irish hooker? and now our 2nd choice hooker
Ian henderson
Stockdale
Cooney should of been in for 6nations

little further back

Jackson, olding
Payne
Bowe - top irish try scorer
Trimble

For a province of our size/population I don't think Ulster has done so bad? Just look at the age of best and he's being asked to stay for RWC that says enough!

MJohnston · 08-06-2018 11:45AM

awec wrote: »

We accepted Jordi Murphy in his desire to play for Ulster. We took in John Cooney. We gave a home to Alan O'Connor, Clive Ross, Nick Timoney and Dave Shanahan.

Ulster have helped many despondent mexicans. When do we get our rewards?

When we stop being managed by a handful of utter incompetents who refuse to accept any culpability for their part in the downfall of the club?

Like, the IRFU could have gifted us everything the last couple of years, Logan and Cunningham still would have steered it into a ditch.

launish116 · 08-06-2018 11:47AM

MJohnston wrote: »

awec wrote: »

We accepted Jordi Murphy in his desire to play for Ulster. We took in John Cooney. We gave a home to Alan O'Connor, Clive Ross, Nick Timoney and Dave Shanahan.

Ulster have helped many despondent mexicans. When do we get our rewards?

When we stop being managed by a handful of utter incompetents who refuse to accept any culpability for their part in the downfall of the club?

Like, the IRFU could have gifted us everything the last couple of years, Logan and Cunningham still would have steered it into a ditch.

Agree with what you've said but I also think they played a very dangerous line last season, with the potential loss of the Champions cup.

Former Former · 08-06-2018 11:59AM

launish116 wrote: »

Captain? most capped irish hooker? and now our 2nd choice hooker

Ian henderson

Stockdale

Cooney should of been in for 6nations

little further back
Jackson, olding

Payne

Bowe - top irish try scorer

Trimble

For a province of our size/population I don't think Ulster has done so bad? Just look at the age of best and he's being asked to stay for RWC that says enough!

No, Ulster is a country mile short of where IRFU need it to be. Unfortunately, that's the reality that has to inform a lot of decision-making in the next couple of years. The province is simply not pulling its weight in providing players to the national team.

awec · 08-06-2018 12:00PM

Former Former wrote: »

No, Ulster is a country mile short of where IRFU need it to be. Unfortunately, that's the reality that has to inform a lot of decision-making in the next couple of years. The province is simply not pulling its weight in providing players to the national team.

How many players should Ulster be contributing?

Former Former · 08-06-2018 12:02PM

awec wrote: »

How many players should Ulster be contributing?

More.

Squidgy Black · 08-06-2018 12:05PM

launish116 wrote: »

Captain? most capped irish hooker? and now our 2nd choice hooker

Ian henderson

Stockdale

Cooney should of been in for 6nations

little further back
Jackson, olding

Payne

Bowe - top irish try scorer

Trimble

For a province of our size/population I don't think Ulster has done so bad? Just look at the age of best and he's being asked to stay for RWC that says enough!

You can also add Treadwell (last season) and Herring to that list.

And not to mention the U20 contingent from Ulster.

I don't think you can criticise Ulster's contribution to the national team at the moment.

Neil3030 · 08-06-2018 12:25PM

Squidgy Black wrote: »

You can also add Treadwell (last season) and Herring to that list.

And not to mention the U20 contingent from Ulster.

I don't think you can criticise Ulster's contribution to the national team at the moment.

Really? That's 3 players actually developed at Ulster. Population of 2m, with a club and school system, and that can't be criticised?

launish116 · 08-06-2018 12:26PM

Edit, post didn't work

Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

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