Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

arsebiscuits1 · 08-06-2018 10:13AM

MJohnston wrote: »

Cry you a river? Hah, that's ironic.

Steady on there now Alanis.

Maybe brush up on your definitions of irony before you go throwing those words about

MJohnston · 08-06-2018 10:16AM

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Steady on there now Alanis.

Maybe brush up on your definitions of irony before you go throwing those words about

Irony: a representative member of a bunch of people who have been moaning about the fate of the careers of these two telling someone else to 'cry me a river'.

Buer · 08-06-2018 10:19AM

Well, this is going well.

arsebiscuits1 · 08-06-2018 10:20AM

MJohnston wrote: »

Irony: a representative member of a bunch of people who have been moaning about the fate of the careers of these two telling someone else to 'cry me a river'.

Cheers Justin

launish116 · 08-06-2018 10:22AM

Can we not just all get along....discuss rugby, we have enough present issues at Ulster without starting historically issues/players problems.

awec · 08-06-2018 10:27AM

launish116 wrote: »

Can we not just all get along....discuss rugby, we have enough present issues at Ulster without starting historically issues/players problems.

They aren't historical.

Logan out. Nucifora out. Browne out. IRFU out.

08-06-2018 10:29AM

MJohnston wrote: »

Please don't start lecturing people about objectivity and trials when you know full well discussion of that is banned. Could you not just have even a sliver of sensitivity for other posters?

Again, if I'm honest - no, I don't know what you think is insensitive about anything that has been written?

There is no silver bullet here implying guilt, there is no silver bullet here ensuring innocence. That is where things are and if that makes you uncomfortable then I think you are lacking objectivity. You are fearing the worst of them but that says more about your perspective than it does about the facts of what went on.

I accept that they could be guilty of one of the worst types of crimes but I also accept that there is plenty of evidence contrary to that. I can put my personal feelings aside and give the benefit of the doubt.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The topic of how both players are getting on is going to be used as a weapon.

Very much delighted not to be an Ulster fan, because anyone who has an issue with them have very much become The Other.

The only person I've seen using it as a weapon is the person who said 'sob stories' about their job prospects.

I think you are working on a supposition that people who don't wish them ill will are somehow endorsing their behaviour. Far from it, but that doesn't mean they should be exiled on the basis of the things they've done which we can prove. People are taking what has been proved and adding what wasn't proved and coming up with outrage that is devoid of objectivity.

They are being severely punished for being young as$holes.

launish116 · 08-06-2018 10:30AM

awec wrote: »

launish116 wrote: »

Can we not just all get along....discuss rugby, we have enough present issues at Ulster without starting historically issues/players problems.

They aren't historical.

Logan out. Nucifora out. Browne out. IRFU out.

Not forgetting, no squad, no coach, no backbone/CEO, no recruitment strategy and list goes on.

MJohnston · 08-06-2018 10:33AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Again, if I'm honest - no, I don't know what you think is insensitive about anything that has been written?

There is no silver bullet here implying guilt, there is no silver bullet here ensuring innocence. That is where things are and if that makes you uncomfortable then I think you are lacking objectivity. You are fearing the worst of them but that says more about your perspective than it does about the facts of what went on.

I accept that they could be guilty of one of the worst types of crimes but I also accept that there is plenty of evidence contrary to that. I can put my personal feelings aside and give the benefit of the doubt.

The only person I've seen using it as a weapon is the person who said 'cry me a river' about their job prospects.

I think you are working on a supposition that people who don't wish them ill will are somehow endorsing their behaviour. Far from it, but that doesn't mean they should be exiled on the basis of the things they've done which we can prove. People are taking what has been proved and adding what wasn't proved and coming up with outrage that is devoid of objectivity.

They are being severely punished for being young as$holes.

Mods, can we ban people trying to bait others into discussing the trial? Because Venjur is constantly at it.

08-06-2018 10:35AM

MJohnston wrote: »

Mods, can we ban people trying to bait others into discussing the trial? Because Venjur is constantly at it.

Wow, really banging the censorship drum this morning aren't we.

irishbucsfan · 08-06-2018 10:36AM

Deleted User wrote: »

The only person I've seen using it as a weapon is the person who said 'cry me a river' about their job prospects.

Nope.

I'm just saying that there is absolutely no reason this needs to be discussed here. When other players moved on we discussed them elsewhere. People will explicitly discuss it here because they know it upsets some people. Because they want to upset those people. Because they blame those people for the outcome. And they'll be backed up by the people who decide to support the lads, despite not being Ulster/Irish fans (as happened here), purely because they are MRAs/Alt-Right and this is an avenue for them to argue.

There's nothing of value to gain from discussing two non-Ulster players in this thread instead of the General Rugby thread. However you risk losing people if you do.

08-06-2018 10:38AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Nope.

I'm just saying that there is absolutely no reason this needs to be discussed here. When other players moved on we discussed them elsewhere. People will explicitly discuss it here because they know it upsets some people. Because they want to upset those people. Because they blame those people for the outcome. And they'll be backed up by the people who decide to support the lads, despite not being Ulster/Irish fans (as happened here), purely because they are MRAs/Alt-Right and this is an avenue for them to argue.

There's nothing of value to gain from discussing two non-Ulster players in this thread instead of the General Rugby thread. However you risk losing people if you do.

This post says WAY more about your perspective than anything I've read on here. People seem to be happy that Jackson's prospects have picked up. I think that is genuine and I haven't seen anything beyond that. You are reading into it because of the feelings you have brought to the table, but nothing I've seen posted suggests that anyone is trying to have a go at anyone.

And you are not the adjudicator of what is of value as far as discussion is concerned. It's quite clear from the number of posts that people do want to discuss it. If people are upset by that they can either grow up a bit or ignore the post / block the posters.

Squidgy Black · 08-06-2018 10:39AM

So.

NIQ signings.

Any rumours floating around other than Du-Plessis?

MJohnston · 08-06-2018 10:40AM

Deleted User wrote: »

This post says WAY more about your perspective than anything I've read on here. People seem to be happy that Jackson's prospects have picked up. I think that is genuine and I haven't seen anything beyond that. You are reading into it because of the feelings you have brought to the table, but nothing I've seen posted suggests that anyone is trying to have a go at anyone.

What you don't seem to want to understand is that it doesn't need to go beyond that.

MJohnston · 08-06-2018 10:41AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Wow, really banging the censorship drum this morning aren't we.

I'll reword that as the wording was misleading - I don't think it's fair when discussion of the trial is banned that it should be okay to try and bait people into that discussion.

irishbucsfan · 08-06-2018 10:42AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This post says WAY more about your perspective than anything I've read on here. People seem to be happy that Jackson's prospects have picked up. I think that is genuine and I haven't seen anything beyond that. You are reading into it because of the feelings you have brought to the table, but nothing I've seen posted suggests that anyone is trying to have a go at anyone.

I’ve no feelings really about it. Which is why I posted it in the GR thread this morning. I think this is a good step for both players and I welcome their chance at rehabilitation.

Again. There’s absolutely nothing to gain from having it here. But you’ve a Munster fan above whose decided to weigh in, have a look at their posting history and I think it shows you the downsides. Again, there is no upside at all.

launish116 · 08-06-2018 10:45AM

Squidgy Black wrote: »

So.

NIQ signings.

Any rumours floating around other than Du-Plessis?

Cooper has been mentioned, but even the fans can see both him and Du-Plessis are not what need! Cooper would be liking jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.
Strengthen our bloody 2nd row and backline, we need a stay eddy not a flamboyant sunny weather player like Cooper. Really feel Keatley with money used elsewhere is best option.

awec · 08-06-2018 10:46AM

Cooper would be a terrible signing. Du Plessis no better.

08-06-2018 10:47AM

MJohnston wrote: »

I'll reword that as the wording was misleading - I don't think it's fair when discussion of the trial is banned that it should be okay to try and bait people into that discussion.

I'm not trying to bait anyone into a discussion on the trial. I've no desire to have that conversation myself, it's been done here and elsewhere.

I'm merely pointing out the fact that the outcome of the trial did not give anyone ownership of the truth. No one outside those involved knows exactly what happened, plenty think they do or have painted a picture in their mind but no one actually knows and that is absolute fact.

In light of this you have to allow a benefit of the doubt, you can't forcefully amputate two home grown favourites from any kind of discussion because of what 'could' have happened, it's not reasonable or objective.

Surely you can discuss the merits of this position without being drawn into a conversation of the facts of the trial no?

launish116 · 08-06-2018 10:49AM

awec wrote: »

Cooper would be a terrible signing. Du Plessis no better.

Throw in the U20's form and I really don't think Dalton/Hume are gonna cut it at the next level, I've been crucified for comments on Hall also but I still don't see it. Agnew has jumped him in pecking order.

Squidgy Black · 08-06-2018 10:49AM

launish116 wrote: »

Cooper has been mentioned, but even the fans can see both him and Du-Plessis are not what need! Cooper would be liking jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.
Strengthen our blood 2nd row and backline, we need a stay eddy not a flamboyant sunny weather player like Cooper. Really feel Keatley with money used elsewhere is best option.

Cooper would be a mental signing, and definitely not the right mentor for McPhilips either.

Apparently Tyler Bleyendaal is making a hasty recovery and is expected to be back fit in a month or two. If that happens then surely Keatley has to look to move? Or at least the IRFU should be trying to pull some strings there given they facilitated the Carbery move...

Former Former · 08-06-2018 10:49AM

awec wrote: »

They aren't historical.

Logan out. Nucifora out. Browne out. IRFU out.

Players out.

Squidgy Black · 08-06-2018 10:50AM

awec wrote: »

Cooper would be a terrible signing. Du Plessis no better.

If the rumours about Jjanties are true about the IRFU blocking it, and instead the NIQ spot is used for Du Plessis or Cooper, that's a complete and utter disaster.

launish116 · 08-06-2018 10:51AM

Squidgy Black wrote: »

awec wrote: »

Cooper would be a terrible signing. Du Plessis no better.

If the rumours about Jjanties are true about the IRFU blocking it, and instead the NIQ spot is used for Du Plessis or Cooper, that's a complete and utter disaster.

But Joe is strengthening Ulster!
If the IRFU had sense they would let Ulster recruit +1 extra NIQ and integrate are first decent academy intakes in years. In theory we could set Ulster up for the next decade.

irishbucsfan · 08-06-2018 10:52AM

Surely Cooper isn't an actual possibility? That'd be shocking.

I think Du Plessis would make sense. Not necessarily the calibre Ulster need but enough depth and breathing room for them to develop McPhillips as a real option.

launish116 · 08-06-2018 10:53AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Surely Cooper isn't an actual possibility? That'd be shocking.

I think Du Plessis would make sense. Not necessarily the calibre Ulster need but enough depth and breathing room for them to develop McPhillips as a real option.

Waist of a NIQ though, could he be a project?

Buer · 08-06-2018 10:54AM

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Cooper would be a mental signing, and definitely not the right mentor for McPhilips either.

Apparently Tyler Bleyendaal is making a hasty recovery and is expected to be back fit in a month or two. If that happens then surely Keatley has to look to move? Or at least the IRFU should be trying to pull some strings there given they facilitated the Carbery move...

Something absolutely has to give if TB recovers. Munster cannot have 5 lads in the senior squad vying for the one jersey. It doesn't really matter if some of them can cover other positions given they've just signed a full back and have 4 high quality centres on the books also.

I wouldn't be surprised if conversations have already taken place with Keatley in relation to a move. But the fact that Ulster are clearly courting a foreign signing suggests that any approach (if made) was not successful.

It's a bit of a silly situation. Munster will be paying a small fortune to have all of those guys on their books and Ulster are in bad need of another outhalf.

irishbucsfan · 08-06-2018 10:55AM

launish116 wrote: »

Waist of a NIQ though, could he be a project?

I suppose it's only a waste of an NIQ spot if they actually sign enough other NIQs to take them to the limit!

Also, in truth he's almost exactly as NIQ as Keatley is. If Ulster can't get an Irish option there then some special dispensation should be given.

launish116 · 08-06-2018 10:57AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

launish116 wrote: »

Waist of a NIQ though, could he be a project?

I suppose it's only a waste of an NIQ spot if they actually sign enough other NIQs to take them to the limit!

Also, in truth he's almost exactly as NIQ as Keatley is. If Ulster can't get an Irish option there then some special dispensation should be given.

Common sense won't prevail and we won't have the help Munster get until we're in financial difficulties

irishbucsfan · 08-06-2018 10:58AM

launish116 wrote: »

Common sense won't prevail and we won't have the help Munster get until we're in fanciful difficulties

Nah, I just don't believe that at all. Although I absolutely believe it's what the rumour will be.

Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

Comments