Turf

Tell me how · 05-06-2018 10:45am

^^^
You're right, it is not the most efficient fuel, there are alternatives but, modern stoves greatly improve the efficiency.
Lots love the natural smell and I've never heard some say my clothes smell of it.

There's little more cathartic than a day in the bog in my view. Physical work, natural environment, visible progress. As someone who has used therapy to overcome depression, there are benefits other than just heat.

The reality is that every energy source we harness involved using finite resources. Also true for wind and solar in terms of critical raw materials but admittedly much less than fossil fuels.

I don't agree with those looking to harvest turf purely for financial opportunity but personally, I do feel that people should be allowed reasonable usage of a resource they have access to.

It's less harmful to the environment compared to oil exploration and fracking for example. A bog with turf removed should look the same as a virgin one, just X number of feet lower in places.

forgottenhills · 05-06-2018 11:16am

Tell me how wrote: »

^^^
You're right, it is not the most efficient fuel, there are alternatives but, modern stoves greatly improve the efficiency.
Lots love the natural smell and I've never heard some say my clothes smell of it.

There's little more cathartic than a day in the bog in my view. Physical work, natural environment, visible progress. As someone who has used therapy to overcome depression, there are benefits other than just heat.

The reality is that every energy source we harness involved using finite resources. Also true for wind and solar in terms of critical raw materials but admittedly much less than fossil fuels.

I don't agree with those looking to harvest turf purely for financial opportunity but personally, I do feel that people should be allowed reasonable usage of a resource they have access to.

It's less harmful to the environment compared to oil exploration and fracking for example. A bog with turf removed should look the same as a virgin one, just X number of feet lower in places.

I take your point on the cathartic nature of working with turf but many people then transport it miles to their houses and drawing it miles in a noisy tractor is hardly cathartic.

Is in not equally satisfying in physical labour terms to spend a day or two chopping and stacing freshly cut ash or planting a few young trees as renewable replacements for the ones just cut down? And these can usually be planted on a home farm without drawing them miles on the road.

I think that in this day and age people should stop this obsession with turf and move onwards and upwards to more thoughtful and less damaging practices.

Tell me how · 05-06-2018 11:26am

forgottenhills wrote:

I think that in this day and age people should stop this obsession with turf and move onwards and upwards to more thoughtful and less damaging practices.

It's not an obsession.

Do you advocate moving onwards and upwards to more thoughtful and less damaging practices in all areas of life such as, drastically reducing meat consumption given methane production by herds of cattle, prioritising pedestrian and cycling with public transport next ahead of private car ownership, banning all single use plastics, penalising people for wasting water and companies for C02 production?

The day will probably come when turf cutting is dramatically curtailed if not banned entirely but the reason it will happen will be mostly because it won't affect anyone within the M50 and the government of the day will target it as evidence of it trying to save the environment.

Finally, it's actually relatively few people population wise who actually cut or use turf anymore which will therefore ultimately make it easier to target while ignoring the 10's of thousands of cars sitting in traffic and firing out CO2 for a couple of hours a day.

forgottenhills · 05-06-2018 12:13pm

Tell me how wrote: »

It's not an obsession.

Do you advocate moving onwards and upwards to more thoughtful and less damaging practices in all areas of life such as, drastically reducing meat consumption given methane production by herds of cattle, prioritising pedestrian and cycling with public transport next ahead of private car ownership, banning all single use plastics, penalising people for wasting water and companies for C02 production?

The day will probably come when turf cutting is dramatically curtailed if not banned entirely but the reason it will happen will be mostly because it won't affect anyone within the M50 and the government of the day will target it as evidence of it trying to save the environment.

Finally, it's actually relatively few people population wise who actually cut or use turf anymore which will therefore ultimately make it easier to target while ignoring the 10's of thousands of cars sitting in traffic and firing out CO2 for a couple of hours a day.

I am simply saying that anyone who is making turf on their own land could and really should in this day and age move to an alternative better for them for a start and for the environment as a second consideration. There is no need to bring other non-related environmental issues into it, that's just deflection.

keepalive213 · 05-06-2018 1:00pm

forgottenhills wrote: »

I am simply saying that anyone who is making turf on their own land could and really should in this day and age move to an alternative better for them for a start and for the environment as a second consideration. There is no need to bring other non-related environmental issues into it, that's just deflection.

Chill out, I think you need a day in the bog to de-stress ðŸ˜. As long as the midges dont get you.

You are of course correct though, turf is a finite resource and a dirty inefficient fuel.

The tradition of harvesting turf is so deeply embedded in the culture of rural areas that none of these arguments matter. As long as there are bogs there will be people cutting turf.

Base price · 05-06-2018 1:41pm

Born na Mona rejuvenating some bogs in Tipperary and Longford
https://www.farmersjournal.ie/massive-defibrillators-deployed-to-revive-bogs-377144

forgottenhills · 05-06-2018 2:08pm

keepalive213 wrote: »

You are of course correct though, turf is a finite resource and a dirty inefficient fuel.

The tradition of harvesting turf is so deeply embedded in the culture of rural areas that none of these arguments matter. As long as there are bogs there will be people cutting turf.

I agree but for instance my dad quit cutting turf the day he bought his first chainsaw back in the 70's. People usually quit doing stuff when they see a better alternative. Turf cutting can only be described as archaic. Even Bord na Mona are quitting!

Doctors room ghost · 06-06-2018 11:54pm

Something I was wondering in the bog this evening while being ate by bastid midges is it a solely Irish thing to cut turf or is there any part of the U.K. at it.what about the Isle of Man.surely there’s bog out them parts.are they cut does anyone know

Reggie. · 07-06-2018 12:05am

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

Something I was wondering in the bog this evening while being ate by bastid midges is it a solely Irish thing to cut turf or is there any part of the U.K. at it.what about the Isle of Man.surely there’s bog out them parts.are they cut does anyone know

Think we are the only country in the EU with raised bogs still intact

charolais0153 · 07-06-2018 12:11am

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

in the bog this evening while being ate by bastid midges

Go around 6 oclock in morning. Best time of the day. Still fresh but sun is getting strong. No midhes either

LasersGoPewPew · 07-06-2018 1:13am

I convinced my patents to give up cutting turf 3 years ago and they have not looked back.
They installed 3 solar panels on our roof and insulated the house as much as possible, new radiators and installed the Nest system. It was one of the best decisions they ever made. They use oil and smokeless coal now when it's really cold.

No torture dealing with turf anymore, turning, footing, maybe put out on side of road to dry off if a bad summer before throwing into trailer again to bring home, throwing it into shed, putting into bags for taking to household, carting into house. And if it got heavy rain after it was cut, it would almost make you cry having to face onto it.

Dear God I detested it. It just never made sense to me for all the work needed how anyone thinks its a viable fuel source, let alone the strain it puts on your lower back, bending over so much. Insulation insulation insulation and draft proofing, that's the key. They're so much happier now and so am I ðŸ˜Š

Sore_toe · 07-06-2018 9:24am

forgottenhills wrote: »

I agree but for instance my dad quit cutting turf the day he bought his first chainsaw back in the 70's. People usually quit doing stuff when they see a better alternative. Turf cutting can only be described as archaic. Even Bord na Mona are quitting!

It's more a cultural practice than any kind of financial necessity, turf is not that cheap if you place any sort of value on time

Muckit · 07-06-2018 11:02am

Sore_toe wrote: »

It's more a cultural practice than any kind of financial necessity, turf is not that cheap if you place any sort of value on time

This is it in a nut shell. And time is in short supply here with me now and indeed most modern day families with plenty of other time and financial constraints.

The parents still persist but they're at the stage now where they are incapable of saving it themselves. They pay a lad to foot it. I'll hook up the trailer to the tractor to get it home. In the winter my father hooks a little cart to himself and draws every sod into the house. Madness or insanity? Take your pick.

It's not sustainable Imo. I'm sowing the seed that oil or another alternative is the way to go. Flick a switch job.

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE the bog. The smell of the heather, the frogs, the midges, the time honoured procedures and the protocols, the romantic notions of it all. I get it. I simply don't have the time for it and it doesn't justify itself purely from a financial savings point of view.

Sore_toe · 07-06-2018 11:10am

Muckit wrote: »

This is it in a nut shell. And time is in short supply here with me now and indeed most modern day families with plenty of other time and financial constraints.

The parents still persist but they're at the stage now where they are incapable of saving it themselves. They pay a lad to foot it. I'll hook up the trailer to the tractor to get it home. In the winter my father hooks a little cart to himself and draws every sod into the house. Madness or insanity? Take your pick.

It's not sustainable Imo. I'm sowing the seed that oil or another alternative is the way to go. Flick a switch job.

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE the bog. The smell of the heather, the frogs, the midges, the time honoured procedures and the protocols, the romantic notions of it all. I get it. I simply don't have the time for it and it doesn't justify itself purely from a financial savings point of view.

Turf is lovely to have but it isn't cheap for what's involved, with a reduced rural population and stricter rules, I can see a less organised opposition to cutting bans in the future

Muckit · 07-06-2018 11:16am

Lads forget that 'the work' with turf just doesn't end after it is saved and in the shed.

As much work is done getting it to the fireside and empting the ash pit. And it's not always in weather like this. It's cold dark evenings when theres plenty else for doing. And herself doesnt let me forget the dust around the house!

Tell me how · 07-06-2018 11:51am

Muckit wrote:

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE the bog. The smell of the heather, the frogs, the midges, the time honoured procedures and the protocols, the romantic notions of it all. I get it. I simply don't have the time for it and it doesn't justify itself purely from a financial savings point of view.

It isn't financially attractive purely from s cost of heating perspective.

It's the ancillary benefits which are strongest motivator for me to do it.

Which is what I hope are considered in terms of bans as those doing it for such reasons might be very small so I'm hoping can continue.

forgottenhills · 07-06-2018 2:24pm

Sore_toe wrote: »

It's more a cultural practice than any kind of financial necessity, turf is not that cheap if you place any sort of value on time

I understand its a cultural practice but it's now verging on daft even damaging by any modern standards, economic or environmental. Many other archaic practices have disappeared when better alternatives came along and older generations were quick to change practices in other areas.

the_pen_turner · 07-06-2018 5:35pm

forgottenhills wrote: »

I understand its a cultural practice but it's now verging on daft even damaging by any modern standards, economic or environmental. Many other archaic practices have disappeared when better alternatives came along and older generations were quick to change practices in other areas.

What's the total environmental damage of say one ply of turf versus 2000 euros of oil.
There are sustainable options out there but most arnt suitable to the average turf burner.

What economic damage is done with turf.
The guys cutting it are being paid and paying tax. Some of those guys spend hundreds of thousands every year maintaining their machinery. If anything it's great for the economy. Much better than giving all your money to some big company that dodges all the tax and takes all the money out of the country

caff · 07-06-2018 5:41pm

the_pen_turner wrote: »

What's the total environmental damage of say one ply of turf versus 2000 euros of oil.
There are sustainable options out there but most arnt suitable to the average turf burner.

What economic damage is done with turf.
The guys cutting it are being paid and paying tax. Some of those guys spend hundreds of thousands every year maintaining their machinery. If anything it's great for the economy. Much better than giving all your money to some big company that dodges all the tax and takes all the money out of the country

Flood damage costs, all that water the bog was holding has to go somewhere and over the decades of cutting it adds up

the_pen_turner · 07-06-2018 6:17pm

caff wrote: »

Flood damage costs, all that water the bog was holding has to go somewhere and over the decades of cutting it adds up

I don't think turf cutting would break the top 20 causes if flooding.
Look at all our houses. All concrete or tar. Drives and yards
All the roads
Carparks
Cities ,towns and villages
Agri drainage
Everything is designed to direct water into rivers.

Aravo · 07-06-2018 10:34pm

the_pen_turner wrote:

I don't think turf cutting would break the top 20 causes if flooding. Look at all our houses. All concrete or tar. Drives and yards All the roads Carparks Cities ,towns and villages Agri drainage Everything is designed to direct water into rivers.

One wonders where Bord na Mona let's water off too after deepening drains pumping water, etc. Their works is often forgotten.

Aravo · 07-06-2018 10:38pm

Anyways the turf is footed here. No turning this year which is extremely rare. I'd say some will be fit for home in the next week.

forgottenhills · 08-06-2018 9:57am

the_pen_turner wrote: »

What's the total environmental damage of say one ply of turf versus 2000 euros of oil.
There are sustainable options out there but most arnt suitable to the average turf burner.

What economic damage is done with turf.
The guys cutting it are being paid and paying tax. Some of those guys spend hundreds of thousands every year maintaining their machinery. If anything it's great for the economy. Much better than giving all your money to some big company that dodges all the tax and takes all the money out of the country

The point that I had made earlier in the thread was that it doesn't make any sense in my view for people to be making turf when they could simply maintain a stand or hedge of ash or sycamore trees near their homes, or even harvest willow off their bogs. Even cutting back strong hawthorn or ash hedges would produce plenty of decent wood for burning. These are renewable sources that when properly dried and burned in modern stoves, are a better fuel, easier to harvest and dry and less damaging to the environment that cutting and transporting turf. I wasn't talking about oil or gas.

keepalive213 · 08-06-2018 10:00am

forgottenhills wrote: »

The point that I had made earlier in the thread was that it doesn't make any sense in my view for people to be making turf when they could simply maintain a stand or hedge of ash or sycamore trees near their homes, or even harvest willow off their bogs. Even cutting back strong hawthorn or ash hedges would produce plenty of decent wood for burning. These are renewable sources that when properly dried and burned in modern stoves, are a better fuel, easier to harvest and dry and less damaging to the environment that cutting and transporting turf. I wasn't talking about oil or gas.

Some places dont have trees, like here on the Erris peninsula where there are literally none. Too hard to grow because of the climate.

Tell me how · 08-06-2018 10:56am

forgottenhills wrote:

The point that I had made earlier in the thread was that it doesn't make any sense in my view for people to be making turf when they could simply maintain a stand or hedge of ash or sycamore trees near their homes, or even harvest willow off their bogs. Even cutting back strong hawthorn or ash hedges would produce plenty of decent wood for burning. These are renewable sources that when properly dried and burned in modern stoves, are a better fuel, easier to harvest and dry and less damaging to the environment that cutting and transporting turf. I wasn't talking about oil or gas.

You could then argue double glazing, a good blanket and eating fruit and nuts might negate a need for a source of heat entirely.

I don't think you can simply ask to exclude oil and gas, given the level they are used just because it affects your argument.

Muckit · 08-06-2018 12:19pm

Ye have as much time spent debating there that ye'd have a good bank of turf raised!!

:D

Filmer Paradise · 08-06-2018 11:16pm

Hi Lads.

Non Farmer here. Used to work on them in the '80s though. No big tradition of turf in Carlow.:(

Always wanted to do a 'Turf cutting holiday'.

Sort of scenario of me landing up at someone's door. Cut/Foot turf during the day. Then feed of spuds & after that a feed of Porter! I'll buy the odd round.

Next day sweat out the hangover & rinse & repeat.

No money exchanged. Just a supply of turf for me for the Winter.

Near 50 now, but would still like to give something like this a go.

Serious offer.

the_pen_turner · 08-06-2018 11:19pm

Muckit wrote: »

Ye have as much time spent debating there that ye'd have a good bank of turf raised!! :D

ah sure isnt it a waiting game. once its turned or footed its all about time

Tell me how · 08-06-2018 11:28pm

Filmer Paradise wrote:

Serious offer.

Are you suggesting you'd pay for the "holiday" or that you'd get feed of spuds, few drinks and a winter's supply of turf in payment for your labour?

I can't take you up on it I'm afraid, but, clarification I think would help any considering this.

Filmer Paradise · 09-06-2018 10:39pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Are you suggesting you'd pay for the "holiday" or that you'd get feed of spuds, few drinks and a winter's supply of turf in payment for your labour?

I can't take you up on it I'm afraid, but, clarification I think would help any considering this.

To tell the truth I was in a fairly 'advanced state of refreshment' when I posted that.

All the same, I've read thru this thread & continue to be fascinated with the whole Turf issue.

As a young man I loved any kind of hard physical graft. I'm still a bit cracked that way, but I'm getting a bit old and fat for it now.

Still, I could go up the country with the wife & kids. Let them off at the beach or wherever, go off to some bog & graft for the day, drink pints & eat loads of new spuds....

A man can dream...:D

Turf

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