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Denmark bans full face veils.

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    #182
    O'Neill
    Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭O'Neill


    Mutant z wrote: »
    None justify the other barbarism of any sort done in the name of religion needs to be outlawed.

    Then why should the burka be banned over forced circumcission? :confused:


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    #183
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,448 ✭✭✭weisses


    Mutant z wrote: »
    Good it should be banned everywhere no to the islamism of Europe.

    Even in most Muslim countries its not a requirement to wear one ...... Can you believe it ... Its shocking right


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    #184
    Mutant z
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Mutant z


    Who would feel comfortable going through airport security and seeing someone's face completely covered over security alone is why it needs to be banned.


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    #185
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,448 ✭✭✭weisses


    O'Neill wrote: »
    Then why should the burka be banned over forced circumcission? :confused:

    Its the fear of Muslims ... all of them


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    #186
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,448 ✭✭✭weisses


    Mutant z wrote: »
    Who would feel comfortable going through airport security and seeing someone's face completely covered over security alone is why it needs to be banned.

    Ever been on a ME airport ?


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    #187
    thebull85
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭thebull85


    wes wrote: »
    Ok that is fair enough. I will say I appreciate the honesty.

    Thanks wes, i appreciate that.


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    #188
    Vladimir Poontang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 657 ✭✭✭Vladimir Poontang


    DickSwiveller wrote: »
    That's your opinion. But if they want to wear it for religious reasons why shouldn't they?

    There's no religious reasons for wearing the Burka. The Quran does not demand it.

    If nutjobs try to justify female genital mutilation because 'muh religion should we allow that too. Or stoning women and gays to death? Muh religion muh religion.

    If they like the atavistic mentality so much they can jump on a plane back to Saudi Arabia.

    Backwards freedom hating ideology is no longer welcome here.


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    #189
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,161 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Charlie Embarrassed Splint wrote: »
    All shopping centres, shops, transport providers, and most buildings are privately owned, as such they generally all hold the right to refuse admission, for any reason.

    Motobike helmets are legally compulsury when on/near a running motorbike. They simply aren't worn at any other times. Haloween is a cultural fabric of this land, it occurs once per year and rarely are full face coverings used.

    It's not about culture. It's about security.that's what someone said and that's what i specifically asked about. Should all face coverings be banned for security reasons? (btw, you might not have noticed but it's possible to get motor cycle helmets that don't cover your face).


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    #190
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    O'Neill wrote: »
    Then why should the burka be banned over forced circumcission? :confused:

    I'm not a fan of forced circumcision either but I know too little about the subject to know if there medical arguments against outright ban.


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    #191
    Mutant z
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Mutant z


    O'Neill wrote: »
    Then why should the burka be banned over forced circumcission? :confused:

    Both of those things need to be banned and any person doing that disgusting stuff to a child should be imprisoned for life or deported if they're not citizens of this country no tolerance to medievalism thank you very much.


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    #192
    DickSwiveller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    Vladimir Poontang wrote: »
    There's no religious reasons for wearing the Burka. The Quran does not demand it.

    If nutjobs try to justify female genital mutilation because 'muh religion should we allow that too. Or stoning women and gays to death? Muh religion muh religion.

    If they like the atavistic mentality so much they can jump on a plane back to Saudi Arabia.

    Backwards freedom hating ideology is no longer welcome here.

    We're talking about what a person is allowed wear. Your post is just a hate filled rant.


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    #193
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,448 ✭✭✭weisses


    meeeeh wrote: »
    I'm not a fan of forced circumcision either but I know too little about the subject to know if there medical arguments against outright ban.

    The ethical argument would be sufficient


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    #194
    Mutant z
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Mutant z


    weisses wrote: »
    Ever been on a ME airport ?

    No and Europe isnt the ME.


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    #195
    Vladimir Poontang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 657 ✭✭✭Vladimir Poontang


    The only thing worse that hard-line Muslim extremists are the useful idiots across Europe that facilitate their demands.

    Feminists for Burkas and idiots like Katherine Zappone who'd be the first ones thrown from the rooftops if their hard-line friends had their way.

    It is cultural suicide.


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    #196
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    take everything wrote: »
    Couldn't help but notice this.
    So Islam isn't a race when it suits.
    And is a race when it suits.

    Ah someone with an axe to grind, because I made a simple clarification in a post I replied to.

    Ok so we are talking about something different than the exchange I had wiht the other poster.

    So may as well address your victim complex here.

    Yeah, that the thing about racists (which you decided to bring up btw), there not rational actors, hence why they will deliberately conflate race and religion when it suits them, and hide behind criticism of religion, when there really talking about a racial group.

    Now plenty of well meaning people will sometimes do the same in error, and that is no big deal. That kind of thing happens from time to time, but I guess you aren't talking about that, but rather annoyed that some said something mean to you on the Internet one time, and now you have a victim complex about it.

    Surely, its not that hard to understand that racists are not terrible honest people, and will use any tactic to get there point across.
    take everything wrote: »
    We've been hit over the head that attacks/criticism of Islam is racist. At least we've established it's not a race now.

    Got it.

    I am sure some people have called genuine criticism of Religion racist, just as I am sure that plenty of racists used religion as a proxy to attack other races. Again, hardly difficult to understand that plenty of people will conflate race and religions when it suits them.

    The 2 examples off the top of my head. Hatred of Jewish people in Europe, where race and relegation were seen as one and the same by anti-semites.

    Also, Bosnian were referred to as Muslims solely as Muslims by Serbian force during the various massacres they carried out.

    Plenty of examples out there of the point I was making. Surely, not hard for you understand now is it?


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    #197
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,514 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    Violation of women's rights, because Muslim women's rights are so important in the Islamic world.


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    #198
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Grayson wrote: »
    It's not about culture. It's about security.that's what someone said and that's what i specifically asked about. Should all face coverings be banned for security reasons? (btw, you might not have noticed but it's possible to get motor cycle helmets that don't cover your face).

    Indeed, all full face coverings would be a good idea to get banned (aside from safety compliance e.g. Welders, Motorbikers).

    No one wears a motorbike helmet (with visor down) anywhere, when not on/near a motorbike. And most shops/business would actually ask for it's removal, if ever done so on their private property. Banks in particular would class it as a 'security situation' if not done so.

    Again at halloween full face coverings are very rare (mostly clothing or make up). It's also a tradition of this land to 'dress up' one night per year.

    If someone at the once-per-year night event of haloween did enter a property (likely a bar/club that decides who can/can't enter). They would almost certainly remove the said covering when ordering drinks, taking drinks, for heat reasoons and/or socalising.


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    #199
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,448 ✭✭✭weisses


    Mutant z wrote: »
    No and Europe isnt the ME.

    Maybe broaden your horizon .. Then you will find out its not scary at all being on an airport surrounded by Muslims .... Not one bomb went off during my time there ... Can you imagine :eek:

    Those niqab wearing women even got on the same plane I was one ... And there was no hyjacking .. I guess we were lucky

    And yet I fully agree the Niqab and burka do not belong in our society


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    #200
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    wes wrote: »
    Also, Bosnian were referred to as Muslims solely as Muslims by Serbian force during the various massacres they carried out.

    I'm not defending what Serbs did in Bosnia but that is a bit more complicated than religious hatred. War in Yugoslavia was about a land grab, the ideas of big Serbia and different other nationalisms. Population of Bosnia was always mix of Croatian Bosnians, Serbian Bosnians and Muslim Bosnians and they were always referred as that to distinguish between different ethnic groups in Bosnia. Because of Turkish attacks the area was always a bit mixed. It was similar in Croatia but the percentage of Serbian population was a lot smaller. While religion was part of the problem other factors were much more significant. But referring to Mulim Bosnians just as Bosnians would be wrong because it would imply Bosnia was unified and attacked from outside, when fight were also inside the country between the three groups.


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    #201
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,161 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Charlie Embarrassed Splint wrote: »
    Indeed, all full face coverings would be a good idea to get banned (aside from safety compliance e.g. Welders, Motorbikers).

    No one wears a motorbike helmet (with visor down) anywhere, when not on/near a motorbike. And most shops/business would actually ask for it's removal, if ever done so on their private property. Banks in particular would class it as a 'security situation' if not done so.

    Again at halloween full face coverings are very rare (mostly clothing or make up). It's also a tradition of this land to 'dress up' one night per year.

    If someone at the once-per-year night event of haloween did enter a property (likely a bar/club that decides who can/can't enter). They would almost certainly remove the said covering when ordering drinks, taking drinks, for heat reasoons and/or socalising.

    So you think that all face coverings should be made illegal by the state unless it has a necessary functional use like a welders mask.

    It's just that if you didn't, you'd be essentially saying that the security reason for getting rid of the burka either didn't exist or was so trivial that it didn't warrent banning any other face covering.


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    #202
    Mutant z
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Mutant z


    weisses wrote: »
    Maybe broaden your horizon .. Then you will find out its not scary at all being on an airport surrounded by Muslims .... Not one bomb went off during my time there ... Can you imagine :eek:

    Those niqab wearing women even got on the same plane I was one ... And there was no hyjacking .. I guess we were lucky

    And yet I fully agree the Niqab and burka do not belong in our society

    Well good for you however you need to see someones face to know their identity and you cant do that if its completely covered.


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    #203
    Taytoland
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    Liberals ask for Christian theocracy to become more liberal on social views but don't utter a word on large Muslim communities in Europe who have extreme views on things like women's rights, gay marriage and so on. How dressing up in a black binbag improves integration is anyone's guess.


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    #204
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Grayson wrote: »
    So you think that all face coverings should be made illegal by the state unless it has a necessary functional use like a welders mask.

    It's just that if you didn't, you'd be essentially saying that the security reason for getting rid of the burka either didn't exist or was so trivial that it didn't warrent banning any other face covering.

    For basic security and ID, full face coverings are probably not suitable. A partial or full ban is worth considering.

    Are you saying the more multi-cultural states such as France have got it all wrong?

    59653981ae07c.jpg


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    #205
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    AllForIt wrote: »
    Is there any other fashion issues on the cards that governments wish to get rid off?

    Women walking around in pyjamas during the day?


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    #206
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    Fully support Denmark,s in banning face veils, if you re out in public one should be required to show his/her face. I also support a ban on face covering/mask wearing on certain types of so called protesters , it will be interesting to see how far Denmark,s new law will go .


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    #207
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    wes wrote: »
    I am making no excuses. I am against forcing people to do stuff that they don't want to do. All I see are excuse for authoritarianism.



    Punishing the victim does no such thing.

    Secularism is separation of church and state. A secular society should keep religion out of government.



    A face veil is not comparable to genital mutilation. You are now talking about a completely different topic.



    How many women wear the face veil in Europe? Is it an epidemic problem? You have any numbers on this?

    I'm against paying tax. Should I be able to opt out??


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    #208
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    O'Neill wrote: »
    It amazes me to be honest that everyone keeps going on about the burka and yet no one seems to question forced circumcission in young boys, due to their religion. Surely that's more abhorrent than what someone wears!

    Maybe read the thread title and you'll be less amazed.


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    #209
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    weisses wrote: »
    The ethical argument would be sufficient

    I am against it just for religious reasons but I know there are sometimes medical reasons for it and I don't know if the ban would impede healthcare. I simply don't know enough about the subject to have an opinion.


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    #210
    quintana76
    Registered Users Posts: 751 ✭✭✭quintana76


    Charlie Embarrassed Splint wrote: »
    Indeed, all full face coverings would be a good idea to get banned (aside from safety compliance e.g. Welders, Motorbikers).

    No one wears a motorbike helmet (with visor down) anywhere, when not on/near a motorbike. And most shops/business would actually ask for it's removal, if ever done so on their private property. Banks in particular would class it as a 'security situation' if not done so.

    Again at halloween full face coverings are very rare (mostly clothing or make up). It's also a tradition of this land to 'dress up' one night per year.

    If someone at the once-per-year night event of haloween did enter a property (likely a bar/club that decides who can/can't enter). They would almost certainly remove the said covering when ordering drinks, taking drinks, for heat reasoons and/or socalising.

    Some of those burka wearers would frighten the ghouls at Halloween.


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    #211
    take everything
    Registered Users Posts: 9,804 ✭✭✭take everything


    wes wrote: »
    Ah someone with an axe to grind, because I made a simple clarification in a post I replied to.

    Ok so we are talking about something different than the exchange I had wiht the other poster.

    So may as well address your victim complex here.

    Yeah, that the thing about racists (which you decided to bring up btw), there not rational actors, hence why they will deliberately conflate race and religion when it suits them, and hide behind criticism of religion, when there really talking about a racial group.

    Now plenty of well meaning people will sometimes do the same in error, and that is no big deal. That kind of thing happens from time to time, but I guess you aren't talking about that, but rather annoyed that some said something mean to you on the Internet one time, and now you have a victim complex about it.

    Surely, its not that hard to understand that racists are not terrible honest people, and will use any tactic to get there point across.



    I am sure some people have called genuine criticism of Religion racist, just as I am sure that plenty of racists used religion as a proxy to attack other races. Again, hardly difficult to understand that plenty of people will conflate race and religions when it suits them.

    The 2 examples off the top of my head. Hatred of Jewish people in Europe, where race and relegation were seen as one and the same by anti-semites.

    Also, Bosnian were referred to as Muslims solely as Muslims by Serbian force during the various massacres they carried out.

    Plenty of examples out there of the point I was making. Surely, not hard for you understand now is it?

    You seem very defensive and triggered.
    Just be nice.

    All I saw was Islam is a race sometimes and not other times.

    Look, I am talking about simple criticism of religion not hatred of people.

    Any criticism of Islam is often met with accusations of racism. It can't be criticised or pilloried or satirised like people satirise or pillory Christianity or Judaism without someone invoking racism and race.

    That's the issue.

    Hatred of Muslims is another issue.

    But a religion that ingrains itself so deeply into culture is always going to be a slippery target, something that can't be touched (and invoking calls of racism) and other times it's just a religion.

    That's my issue.


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