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Denmark bans full face veils.

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    #122
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users Posts: 34,068 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Mathias Brave Rakish wrote: »


    Who are the usual here?

    The same few who bitch and moan about equality but want women be prisoners in their own body wearing these things.


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    #123
    thebull85
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭thebull85


    wes wrote: »
    Sure, and you can prove that only antifa cover there faces. Care to provide evidence from every demonstration across the entire planets history to prove this ridiculous claim. After all extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    OK, I don't expect you do to do that, I am just taking the piss, but anyone who has ever watched the news, will have seen plenty of instance of various demonstrators of various ideologies covering there faces.

    I do wonder why people make such clearly false statements sometimes.

    Anyone that feels the need to cover their face is a coward.


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    #124
    7aubzxk43m2sni
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭7aubzxk43m2sni


    The_Kew_Tour wrote: »
    The same few who bitch and moan about equality but want women be prisoners in their own body wearing these things.

    That's a fairly sweeping statement.

    A fair few posters have raised legitimate concerns about the concept of banning items of clothing.

    How is forbidding someone from wearing an article of clothing better than forcing them to wear one?


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    #125
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    The_Kew_Tour wrote: »
    The same few who bitch and moan about equality but want women be prisoners in their own body wearing these things.

    Care to answer a simple question? How does fining and potentially imprisoning women who are being forced to wear a face veil help them, exactly?

    I have asked that question on here already and no answer. Have asked it on these threads before and the usual suspects have yet to provide an answer to that simple question.


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    #126
    7aubzxk43m2sni
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭7aubzxk43m2sni


    thebull85 wrote: »
    Anyone that feels the need to cover their face is a coward.

    Simple as that?

    What if you were protesting in Russia, where dissenters are known to be assassinated. Would it be cowardly to cover their face while participating in a protest?


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    #127
    jaxxx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,230 ✭✭✭jaxxx


    Good. About time the rest of the Europe as well as every non-Islamic country in the world followed suit as well. The hypocrisy is unbelievable when it comes to this sort of thing. Anyone from any non-Islamic country must follow their rules whenever they go there, and if they don't they face huge panalties. And yet when they come to our countries, it's like our traditions don't matter a f***. So much for law of the land. I am not anti-Islam, but I will never have respect for any religion, country, culture, etc that treats women not even as second class citizens but as commodities. The fact that it's 2018 and this sort of thing is still rampant in the world makes me pure sick.


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    #128
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    thebull85 wrote: »
    Anyone that feels the need to cover their face is a coward.

    It funny how you completely failed to address the point I made, but that is to be expected.


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    #129
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    thebull85 wrote: »
    Anyone that feels the need to cover their face is a coward.

    Anyone who thinks that is incredibly naive


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    #130
    thebull85
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭thebull85


    wes wrote: »
    Care to answer a simple question? How does fining and potentially imprisoning women who are being forced to wear a face veil help them, exactly?

    I have asked that question on here already and no answer. Have asked it on these threads before and the usual suspects have yet to provide an answer to that simple question.


    If they break the law, they face the consequences. Simple as that. If they dont wanna be fined and jailed dont break the law.

    Whats the problem?


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    #131
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users Posts: 34,068 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Mathias Brave Rakish wrote: »
    That's a fairly sweeping statement.

    A fair few posters have raised legitimate concerns about the concept of banning items of clothing.

    How is forbidding someone from wearing an article of clothing better than forcing them to wear one?

    Can I wear a Balaclava if I want to around town?

    No I ****ing can't. And with logical reason.

    And you be first to fire at me if I did.


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    #132
    HydroTendonMan
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭HydroTendonMan


    DickSwiveller wrote: »
    What if they want to wear it?

    I always find this "if they want to wear it" argument sketchy. The only reason I could imagine a woman wanting to wear a niqab or similar is that they were brought up in a society that normalised it. It's inherently sexist, I don't see the point of trying to add context to that.


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    #133
    RebelButtMunch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,378 ✭✭✭RebelButtMunch


    thebull85 wrote: »
    Anyone that feels the need to cover their face is a coward.

    That's not fair. Maybe the'll be murdered by their government. Bashed by their husband, ostracized by their family


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    #134
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users Posts: 34,068 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    wes wrote: »
    Care to answer a simple question? How does fining and potentially imprisoning women who are being forced to wear a face veil help them, exactly?

    I have asked that question on here already and no answer. Have asked it on these threads before and the usual suspects have yet to provide an answer to that simple question.

    By banning them they do t have to wear them

    They don't get fined

    Or imprisoned.

    its that simple


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    #135
    DickSwiveller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    HydroTendonMan wrote: »
    I always find this "if they want to wear it" argument sketchy. The only reason I could imagine a woman wanting to wear a niqab or similar is that they were brought up in a society that normalised it. It's inherently sexist, I don't see the point of trying to add context to that.

    That's your opinion. But if they want to wear it for religious reasons why shouldn't they?


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    #136
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    thebull85 wrote: »
    If they break the law, they face the consequences. Simple as that. If they dont wanna be fined and jailed dont break the law.

    Whats the problem?

    Tut, tut, complete ignoring the question being asked. I know your doing this on purpose, because that is what you always do.

    Again, answer my simple question, how are women who are force to wear the face veil helped by being fined and potentially being imprisoned? How does that help them? No answer as of yet from a single supporters of the ban.


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    #137
    7aubzxk43m2sni
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭7aubzxk43m2sni


    thebull85 wrote: »
    If they break the law, they face the consequences. Simple as that. If they dont wanna be fined and jailed dont break the law.

    Whats the problem?

    You still didnt answer the question?
    wes wrote: »
    How does fining and potentially imprisoning women who are being forced to wear a face veil help them, exactly?


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    #138
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,161 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    thebull85 wrote: »
    Anyone that feels the need to cover their face is a coward.

    Care to post a photo of yourself?

    just kidding. Illustrating that there are times when you don't want to show your face.


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    #139
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    The_Kew_Tour wrote: »
    By banning them they do t have to wear them

    They don't get fined

    Or imprisoned.

    its that simple

    There being forced to wear them, remember. So yes they could be fined and imprisoned. So its not that simple at all. You are supporting a situation were women who are forced to wear the face veil could go to prison. Your womens right argument simply doesn't make any sense at all. As you support punishing the victims.

    The right thing to do would be punish those forcing women to wear the face veil as opposed to the women who are being forced.

    Again, the point I am making isn't being addressed.

    **EDIT**
    Basically, your argument is that the law will magically stop the kind of man who would force a women to wear the face veil to suddenly stop doing that. No law in the history of the world, has stopped people breaking them and your suggestion that this one will, is truly absurd.


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    #140
    7aubzxk43m2sni
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭7aubzxk43m2sni


    The_Kew_Tour wrote: »
    Can I wear a Balaclava if I want to around town?

    No I ****ing can't. And with logical reason.

    And you be first to fire at me if I did.

    There's no law against it, as far as I'm aware? Correct me if I'm wrong.


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    #141
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Mathias Brave Rakish wrote: »
    Fair enough.

    There is still a significant difference in "not requiring" women to have their faces uncovered, and demanding that they have their faces uncovered.

    It would more so fall under 'failure to comply, with the law of the land'.

    And it would also be the same rule for any motorcyclists (of any faith) who choose to walk around with a full face helmet when not on/beside their motorbike.


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    #142
    HydroTendonMan
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭HydroTendonMan


    DickSwiveller wrote: »
    That's your opinion. But if they want to wear it for religious reasons why shouldn't they?

    I suppose my answer was a little off-topic. I don't believe that banning face veils is a good thing either, I was suggesting in a more general sense that sexism is still sexism, regardless of whether it is embedded into a thought system/religion/culture or whatever else.


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    #143
    7aubzxk43m2sni
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭7aubzxk43m2sni


    Charlie Embarrassed Splint wrote: »
    It would more so fall under 'failure to comply, with the law of the land'.

    And it would also be the same rule for any motorcyclists (of any faith) who choose to walk around with a full face helmet when not on/beside their motorbike.

    Don't think there's a law against that either?


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    #144
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Mathias Brave Rakish wrote: »
    There's no law against it, as far as I'm aware? Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Simply because it doesn't happen.

    Highly likely anyone doing so would be stopped, questioned or even detained. On the suspision of potential/intent mis-behaviour.

    It might also fall under the 'going equipped offence'


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    #145
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,682 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    I've not read all the thread so apologies if this point has been made. I work or have worked with several muslims who have varying degrees of observance to the Muslim faith. I asked the most observant one I know and asked him is there a religious reason women wear the burka ? He said it doesn't say anything about it. The hijab is sufficient to class as dressing modestly. So the burka doesn't appear to violate any Islamic decrees.

    So, while I respect a persons right to practice culture and faith, I feel only ones that are genuine should happen. Ones like the burka which appear to be a distortion of a faith shouldn't be allowed. I mean Irish women wore shawls and headscarfs in the past.


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    #146
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Mathias Brave Rakish wrote: »
    Don't think there's a law against that either?

    Simply because it doesn't happen.

    Highly likely anyone doing so would be stopped, questioned or even detained. On the suspision of potential/intent mis-behaviour.

    It might also fall under the 'going equipped offence'.


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    #147
    thebull85
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭thebull85


    wes wrote: »
    Tut, tut, complete ignoring the question being asked. I know your doing this on purpose, because that is what you always do.

    Again, answer my simple question, how are women who are force to wear the face veil helped by being fined and potentially being imprisoned? How does that help them? No answer as of yet from a single supporters of the ban.

    I dont recall saying it would help anyone, if the danish people are happy with this law being brought in then good for them. If Muslims in Denmark have a problem with it they can go elsewhere.


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    #148
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,934 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    wes wrote: »
    Care to answer a simple question? How does fining and potentially imprisoning women who are being forced to wear a face veil help them, exactly?

    Very often financial incentives / disincentives trump social cultural preferences, hence many Moslems choosing to live in the West despite the culture clash.

    Significant fines for the wearing of the burqa and niqab will cause financial pressure on the males who impose the requirement and will very likely eventually lead to them changing their behaviour.

    Using fines as a way of modifying/limiting aberrant behaviour is effective, which is why they are used widely in all legal systems.


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    #149
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    wes wrote: »
    Tut, tut, complete ignoring the question being asked. I know your doing this on purpose, because that is what you always do.

    Again, answer my simple question, how are women who are force to wear the face veil helped by being fined and potentially being imprisoned? How does that help them? No answer as of yet from a single supporters of the ban.

    Do you think men should be allowed to force women to wear face veils? That's domestic violence and shouldn't be tolerated. So if woman wearing face veil is arrested and she says she was forced into it, the person forcing her should be arrested. Should society really turn a blind eye domestic violence and to women's freedoms being curtailed in name of religious freedom.


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    #150
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    DickSwiveller wrote: »
    That's your opinion. But if they want to wear it for religious reasons why shouldn't they?
    What if they want to be beaten up by their husband - do we allow that too because they want it? (See UNESCO report linked earlier)

    I think it's entirely legitimate to argue that the culture that would wear/enforce a burka is so fundamentally sexist that it's ingrained in them at this stage. So they could be ok with wearing a burka/beating domestically abused/whatever else is going - but that's no reason to allow it in our culture


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    #151
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users Posts: 4,828 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    DickSwiveller wrote: »
    That's your opinion. But if they want to wear it for religious reasons why shouldn't they?

    For security and inclusivity reasons it should be banned here too.
    We say we are an inclusive multicultural nation. Surely one of the key aspects of this is at the very least being able to see someone's face in a government building, in the street, in the mall, in a police station.
    Inclusivity is a two way street.
    Also, the reasoning behind the burqa is it's necessary because men cannot control their sexual urges when they see a woman’s lips, her cheeks or smile.
    However in this country, we don't need the burqa because we have the Gardaí.


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