Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

tigger123 · 28-05-2018 10:53AM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Well the leadership of the anti-divorce movement didn't 'go away' after the 1995 referendum, and they presumably retained their beliefs, but AFAIK any real-world activism in that cause ceased entirely. I remember Dr. Gerard Casey saying they would regroup and agitate for another referendum but he didn't sound like he believed a word of it...

It is notable that very few of the pro-lifers declaring the fight will continue are giving any indication what form this 'fightback' will take. This Breda O'Brien article literally contains no more information about it than what is in the headline. Breda O’Brien: Anti-abortion movement has not given up and will not disappear
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/breda-o-brien-anti-abortion-movement-has-not-given-up-and-will-not-disappear-1.3510365

I read that article yesterday; it's basically for the religious Right and encouraged them not to lose heart after their defeat. She's speaking to their base supporters.

ohnonotgmail · 28-05-2018 10:54AM

tigger123 wrote: »

I read that article yesterday; it's basically for the religious Right and encouraged them not to lose heart after their defeat. She's speaking to their base supporters.

In fairness does she ever speak to anybody else?

Fighting Tao · 28-05-2018 10:56AM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Spook, if you don't like what I'm saying put me on ignore.
Its a public forum where free speech is allowed.
Tell you what so we don't have to listen to each other's views any more, let me go first and add you to ignore

Another 2 wrongs from you there. I’ll let you figure it out yourself.

dav3 · 28-05-2018 10:58AM

There will be no blocking, there will be no obstructing.

More people voted against same-sex marriage than abortion.

809,728 voted against divorce.
734,700 voted against same-sex marriage.
723,632 voted against abortion.

The politicians need to get on with it at this stage and stop pandering to a minority of loud mouths.

mach1982 · 28-05-2018 10:59AM

You know what really pissing me off ? The gloating of some of the yes side and the abuse that the people who stood up and fronted the No campaign are getting. If the NO side won and they behaved like the yes is they would be calling discrimination and bulling and running to their safe places . Alot of people who voted No had valid reason, unlike some who voted only to give 2 fingers to church, if the church was in favor of repeal then they would have vote to retain. Just because they believe a humans life begin at contraception, there option is as valid as yours or mine doesn't it mean it is wrong only it's a difference of opinion . Dog and Cats don't have any rights but when one dies people mourn them like there were a family member. So stop acting so high and might I though this was a liberal society were everyones opinions matter. Is liberalism just morph in to in a differ type of conservationism, like the pigs morphing into the men in Animal farm.

Leroy42 · 28-05-2018 11:00AM

martingriff wrote: »

While agree that the Yes was overwhelming behaviour polls by RTE and other have shown people voted yes as it was a yes or no question however if was between repeal just for FAA rape incest metal health or repeal on all and the 12 weeks the majority of the yes and some of the no votes would have overwhelming gone for no 12 weeks. So I can see the 12 might be reduced to 10 or 9 as a possibility not likely but a pissibility

What will that achieve? All it will do is annoy a large amount of people that have fought very hard for this and the view that people were very aware of what they were voting for.

A no point during the campaign did the No side ever declare that 12 weeks was off limits, but 9 or 10 would be reasonable. So it is a bit much to now claim that that is a position that people should look at.

If nothing else, the recent Equality ref and Fridays shows that traditional assumptions about voting have changed. TD's should take note of that

robarmstrong · 28-05-2018 11:02AM

mach1982 wrote: »

You know what really pissing me off ? The gloating of some of the yes side and the abuse that the people who stood up and fronted the No campaign are getting. If the NO side won and they behaved like the yes is they would be calling discrimination and bulling and running to their safe places . Alot of people who voted No had valid reason, unlike some who voted only to give 2 fingers to church, if the church was in favor of repeal then they would have vote to retain. Just because they believe a humans life begin at contraception, there option is as valid as yours or mine doesn't it mean it is wrong only it's a difference of opinion . Dog and Cats don't have any rights but when one dies people mourn them like there were a family member. So stop acting so high and might I though this was a liberal society were everyones opinions matter. Is liberalism just morph in to in a differ type of conservationism, like the pigs morphing into the men in Animal farm.

This "difference of opinion" lead to Irish women being shipped across over to the UK to be looked after for an abortion they really should have been having over here, if they were to have it all.

Now that this "difference of opinion" has been removed, we can finally stop exporting our women to have their pregnancies terminated abroad.

....... · 28-05-2018 11:02AM

This post has been deleted.

mach1982 · 28-05-2018 11:07AM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You only have to look at twitter.

ohnonotgmail · 28-05-2018 11:09AM

mach1982 wrote: »

You only have to look at twitter.

not even one example of either? we dont all follow the same accounts on twitter.

Zubeneschamali · 28-05-2018 11:09AM

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Breda O’Brien: Anti-abortion movement has not given up and will not disappear

I'm sure Breda will not disappear, and David Quinn, and Ronan Mullen. They have actual jobs pushing the Bishop's line on everything at the Iona "Institute" and the Seanad, and will be there to defend blasphemy laws, God in the Constitution etc. etc. forever.

But the thousands of marchers and protestors, the hundreds of thousands of No voters - this is the last we will hear of them. There will be a protest outside the Dáil when abortion legislation is being passed later this year. It will be 50-100 hardcore religious types saying the Rosary and waving BVM pics and gory photos.

Mint Sauce · 28-05-2018 11:09AM

So I voted yes, and even though the YES won, I find little to celebrate about to be honest, yes it does give more protection and choice to women and their heathcare providers, but I dont feel it a reason to be shouting from roof tops and dancing in the street.

It was one of the most difficult choices I have made when it comes to refendum voting, quite a personal vote, one which I thought had no real winner.

Before the vote, I was alsways against abortion on demand, unless it was for exceptional circumstances, and throughout the Citizens Asemably, thought to my self I would vote YES for them exceptional circumstances, and when the government proposed Abortion up to 12 weeks, that really went against my personal beleifs, and what I thought was right and wrong, and I was swinging back to a NO. But weighing it all up, girls/women not having to travel to England, or getting back street abortions here without medical support, abortion in them exceptional circumstnces, and more protection for medical staff in cases of risk of life to the mother, made me beleif that YES was the better option, despite my personal beliefs. But even the night before the vote, I was having doubts on why I was voting YES, thinking to my self, you dont agree with abortion on demand, what are you doing, and thought of all the reason again to vote YES.

So it was difficult, it was a test of what I thought was right and wrong, I only winner I think is better health services and support for woman, and I am glad the campagning is all over. I am not entirely proud of my vote, but do think I would have still been more disapointed to have voted NO, and denied that choice and support to our female population.

Shurimgreat · 28-05-2018 11:10AM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Take a look at the Iona bashing thread for a start.

Shurimgreat · 28-05-2018 11:11AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

not even one example of either? we dont all follow the same accounts on twitter.

Virtually an entire thread dedicated to bashing the Iona Institute.

ohnonotgmail · 28-05-2018 11:11AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I'm sure Breda will not disappear, and David Quinn, and Ronan Mullen. They have actual jobs pushing the Bishop's line on everything at the Iona "Institute", and wil be there to defend blasphemy laws, God in the Constitution etc. etc. forever.

But the thousands of marchers and protestors, the hundreds of thousands of No voters - this is the last we will hear of them. There will be a protest outside the Dáil when abortion legislation is being passed later this year. It will be 50-100 hardcore religious types saying the Rosary and waving BVM pics and gory photos.

hopefully these will not exist for much longer.

AtomicHorror · 28-05-2018 11:12AM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Tell you what so we don't have to listen to each other's views any more, let me go first and add you to ignore

Welcome to the club, Spook! :pac: :pac:

OldNotWIse · 28-05-2018 11:12AM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

FFS! Its like banging your head off a wall trying to talk to people like you.
The vast majority if not all of No voters don't hate women.
They are standing up for the rights of the unborn. Nothing to do at all with hating women.
To show how utterly ridiculous you sound, many many women voted against this referendum. And 50% of foetuses would one day be born as female babies if allowed to be born.
If I was to take your logic I could say "why do women want to terminate female foetuses?" And in truth 50% would be. A great day for female empowerment alright, terminating healthy female foetuses.

These are all complex issues but to say something like its because some No voters hate women is ridiculous and a bit childish.

Liberalised abortion has led to appalling female infanticide in places like India and China with tens of millions of females missing from the population. But hey as long as adult women can abort healthy foetuses I guess that's progress and we should all just get behind it.

The optics of the cheering in the last few days has been disgraceful imo.

Agree. No matter what side of the fence you're on, the partying was a bit crass and vulgar in my opinion. I am a female of child bearing age and I voted No. While I was disappointed in the result, that's to be accepted now as we live in a democracy, but I really thought the after partying was over the top. It's not like after the marriage referendum where we had genuine cause for celebration - there are no winners when it comes to abortion.

ohnonotgmail · 28-05-2018 11:13AM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Virtually an entire thread dedicated to bashing the Iona Institute.

the iona institute is not a person. now what about the gloating? are we not allowed that we have thrown off one more shackle of the catholic church and it's proxies?

Leroy42 · 28-05-2018 11:13AM

mach1982 wrote: »

You know what really pissing me off ? The gloating of some of the yes side and the abuse that the people who stood up and fronted the No campaign are getting. If the NO side won and they behaved like the yes is they would be calling discrimination and bulling and running to their safe places . Alot of people who voted No had valid reason, unlike some who voted only to give 2 fingers to church, if the church was in favor of repeal then they would have vote to retain. Just because they believe a humans life begin at contraception, there option is as valid as yours or mine doesn't it mean it is wrong only it's a difference of opinion . Dog and Cats don't have any rights but when one dies people mourn them like there were a family member. So stop acting so high and might I though this was a liberal society were everyones opinions matter. Is liberalism just morph in to in a differ type of conservationism, like the pigs morphing into the men in Animal farm.

They are celebrating winning an argument, decisively, that has been raging for years. They were able to overturn a religiously driven ideal from 35 years ago. They overcome the very top institutions of the state.

Had you felt oppressed for 35 years, if you had seen your friends, sisters, aunts etc put through the process of being told their opinion was irrelevant, their rights were only worth something if done outside the country, then you would be celebrating too.

They have every right to celebrate that achievement. They have every right to celebrate the achievement of Ireland itself to face the reality, and not blink as Leo said.

Of course people could vote no, that is democracy, and we all had the equal opportunity in the secrecy of the ballot box to make our choice. And overwhelmingly we choose Yes.

The church played very little role in this ref, I doubt there were many people who voted Yes to stick two fingers to the church. The majority of people in Ireland know the best way to achieve that is simply to ignore them, and they continue to do that in increasing numbers.

And you talk about valid opinions. And that is the very crux of the issue. The Yes vote does not force anybody to do anything. If you are against abortion, then great, follow that. It was the 8th, and the No side, that were advocating that their view should be regarded as right and even people who didn't share it would have to comply. Now all of a sudden you want everyone to be treated in line with their beliefs?

Shurimgreat · 28-05-2018 11:14AM

Mint Sauce wrote: »

So I voted yes, and even though the YES won, I find little to celebrate about to be honest, yes it does give more protection and choice to women and their heathcare providers, but I dont feel it a reason to be shouting from roof tops and dancing in the street.

It was one of the most difficult choices I have made when it comes to refendum voting, quite a personal vote, one which I thought had no real winner.

Before the vote, I was alsways against abortion on demand, unless it was for exceptional circumstances, and throughout the Citizens Asemably, thought to my self I would vote YES for them exceptional circumstances, and when the government proposed Abortion up to 12 weeks, that really went against my personal beleifs, and what I thought was right and wrong, and I was swinging back to a NO. But weighing it all up, girls/women not having to travel to England, or getting back street abortions here without medical support, abortion in them exceptional circumstnces, and more protection for medical staff in cases of risk of life to the mother, made me beleif that YES was the better option, despite my personal beliefs. But even the night before the vote, I was having doubts on why I was voting YES, thinking to my self, you dont agree with abortion on demand, what are you doing, and thought of all the reason again to vote YES.

So it was difficult, it was a test of what I thought was right and wrong, I only winner I think is better health services and support for woman, and I am glad the campagning is all over. I am not entirely proud of my vote, but do think I would have still been more disapointed to have voted NO, and denied that choice and support to our female population.

While I disagree on some points, its a reasonable well set out position of the type that has become increasingly rare on this thread.

ohnonotgmail · 28-05-2018 11:14AM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Agree. No matter what side of the fence you're on, the partying was a bit crass and vulgar in my opinion. I am a female of child bearing age and I voted No. While I was disappointed in the result, that's to be accepted now as we live in a democracy, but I really thought the after partying was over the top. It's not like after the marriage referendum where we had genuine cause for celebration - there are no winners when it comes to abortion.

the women who can now receive appropriate healthcare are the winners. Should they not celebrate?

Zubeneschamali · 28-05-2018 11:14AM

Mint Sauce wrote: »

throughout the Citizens Asemably, thought to my self I would vote YES for them exceptional circumstances, and when the government proposed Abortion up to 12 weeks, that really went against my personal beleifs,

12 weeks was the compromise proposal from the Citizen's Assembly, not the Government's idea at all.

Fighting Tao · 28-05-2018 11:15AM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Agree. No matter what side of the fence you're on, the partying was a bit crass and vulgar in my opinion. I am a female of child bearing age and I voted No. While I was disappointed in the result, that's to be accepted now as we live in a democracy, but I really thought the after partying was over the top. It's not like after the marriage referendum where we had genuine cause for celebration - there are no winners when it comes to abortion.

Believe it or not, you are a winner from the result. Your life matters more now. You do not have to die like women before you due to the 8th. The lifting of oppression was a reason for many to celebrate.

DrumSteve · 28-05-2018 11:16AM

mach1982 wrote: »

You only have to look at twitter.

Spare us.

The NO side were far worse. Far far worse.

martingriff · 28-05-2018 11:17AM

Leroy42 wrote: »

What will that achieve? All it will do is annoy a large amount of people that have fought very hard for this and the view that people were very aware of what they were voting for.

A no point during the campaign did the No side ever declare that 12 weeks was off limits, but 9 or 10 would be reasonable. So it is a bit much to now claim that that is a position that people should look at.

If nothing else, the recent Equality ref and Fridays shows that traditional assumptions about voting have changed. TD's should take note of that

Step back a bit there I was only stating what was reported by RYE no need for the attack.

28-05-2018 11:17AM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Virtually an entire thread dedicated to bashing the Iona Institute.

No more than you'd see in the Atheist threads in here, which as an Atheist yourself I'm sure you've read.

Still waiting on scientific evidence of your claim that the rules to access abortion in the UK are constantly bypassed, as I mentioned last night the link you provided last night has been proved to be an inacurate pro life propaganda piece.

SusieBlue · 28-05-2018 11:18AM

mach1982 wrote: »

You know what really pissing me off ? The gloating of some of the yes side and the abuse that the people who stood up and fronted the No campaign are getting. If the NO side won and they behaved like the yes is they would be calling discrimination and bulling and running to their safe places . Alot of people who voted No had valid reason, unlike some who voted only to give 2 fingers to church, if the church was in favor of repeal then they would have vote to retain. Just because they believe a humans life begin at contraception, there option is as valid as yours or mine doesn't it mean it is wrong only it's a difference of opinion . Dog and Cats don't have any rights but when one dies people mourn them like there were a family member. So stop acting so high and might I though this was a liberal society were everyones opinions matter. Is liberalism just morph in to in a differ type of conservationism, like the pigs morphing into the men in Animal farm.

You can believe what you want, I only have a problem with it when those beliefs restrict and compromise my healthcare choices.
That was the case before Saturday, and thankfully, it won't be that way any longer.

Shurimgreat · 28-05-2018 11:18AM

Re no-one coming up with proposals for 35 years.

No mainstream political party would tough this with a bargepole for 34 of those years.

Its only in the last year that proposals have come forward that people can vote on.

So maybe those political parties who were quite happy to see the status quo remain for 34 years and who are now out celebrating its repeal deserve significant criticism?

They all towed the catholic church line and suddenly changed their minds.

What was that about 16% of the population trusting politicians?

OldNotWIse · 28-05-2018 11:20AM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Believe it or not, you are a winner from the result. Your life matters more now. You do not have to die like women before you due to the 8th. The lifting of oppression was a reason for many to celebrate.

I would never have had an abortion anyway. They don't speak for me and I do not feel in any way indebted or grateful!

ohnonotgmail · 28-05-2018 11:21AM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I would never have had an abortion anyway. They don't speak for me and I do not feel in any way indebted or grateful!

Good for you. Other women dont feel the same and they had a right to celebrate the result.

Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

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