Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

Overheal · 28-05-2018 01:10AM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

And some people believe that ending the life of a healthy viable non hard case foetus is also cruel. You need to learn to respect this opinion too. I know you don't however.
So your point about tolerance is massively ironic. I hope you get that.

You’re constantly on here belittling people and generalizing them for opinions you don’t like so this post is rich.

spookwoman · 28-05-2018 01:13AM

Jesus is Shurimgreat still at it. Can someone please donate a womb to them so they have one to control hoping it will shut them up.

Fr Tod Umptious · 28-05-2018 01:28AM

BenEadir wrote: »

Correct, that's what the people have voted for 2-1 so hopefully our elected politicians will get on with legislating for what the people have instructed them to facilitate.

Oh no no no, it's far more nuanced than that.

I votef Yes but I don't want abortion on demand.

I think abortion sould be limited to rape, incest and health of the mother.

But these were not possible with the 8th ammendemnt in place.

Now that it's gone and government can legislate I'll lobby for the above cases rather than abortion on demand.

Outlaw Pete · 28-05-2018 01:31AM

Elisabeth Wrong Stork wrote: »

People who think describing something as "like a very heavy period" is belittling or trivialising should just wear a big sign saying "I know nothing about women's bodies". The phrase "like a very heavy period" is enough to put the absolute fear of god into me!

When people complained about prochoicers during the campaign suggesting that an abortion was just like a heavy period, they were not doing so (as you imply) out of either an ignorance of how bad a period can be, nor to try and suggest that a woman feels much worse during/after an abortion. They're comments have zero to do with that in fact.

No, the reason people (like myself) take issue with the remark is because a human being's life is not lost when a woman menstruates. No heartbeat is being stopped. THAT is why some people see the comment as obtuse.

_Dara_ wrote: »

That’s stats for the UK. A different country. Who knows why there are more surgical abortions there. Abortion under 12 weeks can be carried out using the pills. It’s much less invasive that way. Why would anyone decide on a surgical abortion over that? Seriously like? “Nah, that’s too easy, gimme a surgical abortion!”.

Well, I can tell you I have known of a number of women over the years that have taken pills and deeply regretted it. They deeply wished they had went to the UK and had a surgical abortion. I'm very surprised you're asking me why, Dara, tbh.

28-05-2018 01:39AM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Oh no no no, it's far more nuanced than that.

I votef Yes but I don't want abortion on demand.

I think abortion sould be limited to rape, incest and health of the mother.

But these were not possible with the 8th ammendemnt in place.

Now that it's gone and government can legislate I'll lobby for the above cases rather than abortion on demand.

I think Simon Harris’ bill will be put through the Dail in the form published in March with little difficulty. People want this issue sorted once and for all and won’t tolerate any delays, filibustering or attempted substantive changes to it. The proposed leglisation has been in the public domain for weeks now so people knew what they were voting for.

Overheal · 28-05-2018 01:41AM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

When people complained about prochoicers during the campaign suggesting that an abortion was just like a heavy period, they were not doing so (as you imply) out of either an ignorance of how bad a period can be, nor to try and suggest that a woman feels much worse during/after an abortion. They're comments have zero to do with that in fact.

No, the reason people (like myself) take issue with the remark is because a human being's life is not lost when a woman menstruates. No heartbeat is being stopped. THAT is why some people see the comment as obtuse.

Well, I can tell you I have known of a number of women over the years that have taken pills and deeply regretted it. They deeply wished they had went to the UK and had a surgical abortion. I'm very surprised you're asking me why, Dara, tbh.

And I know people who regretted investing in real estate before the crash but we don’t outlaw choice because some people regret it.

Not sure what you’re saying about heartbeats here. The fetal heartbeat begins at about 6 weeks. This doesn’t mean that between 6-12 weeks an abortion couldn’t be done with pills and have the fetus pass trough the body in a heavy menstrual period.

gctest50 · 28-05-2018 01:52AM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

...........

No heartbeat is being stopped.

.

Heart cells will just beat spontaneously :

It takes about 17 weeks to get organised etc

Wrongway1985 · 28-05-2018 01:57AM

SusieBlue wrote: »

More than one male poster on Boards said they were voting No just because of how passionate I was for the Yes vote.

Well the more I read drivel on here and other sources the stronger my initial views grew, I find it hard to comprehend reading views here the likes put forward by you,Rob,Erica (wish I had ye're way with words btw) and many others and still objecting tbh even been shown countless times the negativity of the eighth and real life impacts certain posters were still stubbornly comitted to retaining. Thank you and nearly 70% for Binning the eighth

gctest50 · 28-05-2018 02:06AM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

..........

Well, I can tell you I have known of a number of women over the years that have taken pills and deeply regretted it. They deeply wished they had went to the UK and had a surgical abortion.

No reason to be second best - we should aim to have world leading healthcare
We should work out why percentages are that way and maybe lean towards them if as you say :

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

..........

They deeply wished they had went to the UK and had a surgical abortion.

28-05-2018 02:07AM

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

WE ALL want as little, ideally no, abortions happening as possible.

First time I've seen it spelled out like that. So simplistic yet so obvious! Fair play. Congrats on all your work, really enjoyed your post.

gctest50 · 28-05-2018 02:10AM

end of the road wrote: »

if it's beating any bit at all then it's a beating heart.

Those are heart cells beating in a petri dish

That doesn't make it a beating heart

Calina · 28-05-2018 05:30AM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Very measured post lochlach.
Having also known women who suffered miscarriage or are unable to conceive, the lack of regard some people show for the foetus up to 12 weeks must seem particularly cruel. These women would give anything to have a 12 week viable healthy foetus.
Another reason why sensitivity is required.

I can't have children. I am fully in favour of Simon Harris's legislation. It is long overdue. I have a bunch of complex reasons for this; I have posted comprehensively in the threads so I will spare myself the trouble again.

I would be grateful if you stopped projecting your feelings on to others. However much I might have wanted children myself, I am not so barbaric as to want to interfere with other women's lives. I don't know their situation. I don't know what other suffering a pregnancy may inflict on them and their families. And a foetus which appears to be healthy at 12 weeks may not ultimately be so.

For the overwhelming majority of women, regardless of their circumstances, abortion is a major personal decision. A lot of research shows that social guilt tripping contributes greatly to post abortion stress; ie, it is not the abortion itself but the judgmentalism of society which causes problems.

I get that you want to judge women for daring not to comply with your value set. Don't use women like me to support you. No matter how much I want children, I am not in favour of compelling women to remain pregnant if they have personal reasons for wishing not to carry on. I will not deny them the choice nature denied me.

JupiterKid · 28-05-2018 05:46AM

To those very bitter and angry No voters who cannot accept the will of the Irish electorate in taking one of the most important steps in modernining Irish society...

...accept the outcome of the referendum and move on with your lives.

_Dara_ · 28-05-2018 06:27AM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

When people complained about prochoicers during the campaign suggesting that an abortion was just like a heavy period, they were not doing so (as you imply) out of either an ignorance of how bad a period can be, nor to try and suggest that a woman feels much worse during/after an abortion. They're comments have zero to do with that in fact.

No, the reason people (like myself) take issue with the remark is because a human being's life is not lost when a woman menstruates. No heartbeat is being stopped. THAT is why some people see the comment as obtuse.

Well, I can tell you I have known of a number of women over the years that have taken pills and deeply regretted it. They deeply wished they had went to the UK and had a surgical abortion. I'm very surprised you're asking me why, Dara, tbh.

I don’t see why it’s a surprising question.

Anyway, your issue seems to be that many people might have been swayed towards voting yes because they thought most abortions would be medical rather than surgical. Honestly, I gotta say, I reckon the numbers we’re talking here are tiny. Anyone strongly pro-life would not have been easily swayed. Soft no voters might but I think they’d have to basically not be that opposed to abortion to be swayed. This vote was emphatic. It’s a marginal issue, IMO. Personal stories told in the media and stories of people known to them personally were, according to the exits polls, by far the most influential things in persuading undecideds to vote yes.

erica74 · 28-05-2018 06:54AM

I still can't believe it. It feels like a dream. I still keep thinking I dreamed it all. Since Friday night I've had dreams about the referendum, so bizarre!

I have read through the last 20 or so pages and have seen my username mentioned by some posters, who say my contribution to the discussion helped them in their decision. I am glad I helped in some way to show another side to this topic.
I think all of the really personal individual stories told in the abortion referendum threads and on other sites etc have made for sad but educational reading. I think everyone who told their story about the impact of the 8th on their life, should be very proud of themselves for being open and honest and contributing to this change in Ireland.
There is still such a culture of shame and secrecy in Ireland, we've seen that in this thread on both sides of the discussion, but I think we are taking the right steps away from that culture. I think we need to continue in this direction.
Women who have sex shouldn't be shamed, women who have sex and become pregnant shouldn't be shamed, women who have sex and become pregnant and have an abortion shouldn't be shamed, no matter what their circumstances.

I really hope we have this new legislation by Autumn. Surely the government will do right by us and not dilly dally?

The suggested legislation is set out fully in this article https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/what-would-replace-the-eighth-amendment-the-text-the-law-the-politics-1.3505902?mode=amp for anyone who is curious.

Graces7 · 28-05-2018 07:20AM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

No problem. What swung it for me was looking at the YouTube channel for together for yes and some of the videos on that with peoples experiences over the years.

A lot of scapegoating going on.

Graces7 · 28-05-2018 07:23AM

end of the road wrote: »

exactly. opposition to abortion whether it be unrestricted or full stop is not a religious specific belief.

Not quite sure of the nuances of your words? In the Didache, 1st century Christian teaching, abortion is forbidden,

BUT it is not an exclusively religious common sense ideal of course. Simple humanity and respect for life.

Graces7 · 28-05-2018 07:25AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

To those very bitter and angry No voters who cannot accept the will of the Irish electorate in taking one of the most important steps in modernining Irish society...

...accept the outcome of the referendum and move on with your lives.

No bitterness or anger here and I have not seen or heard any. Modernity indeed!!!!!!!

The real issues are only just starting of course.

Graces7 · 28-05-2018 07:27AM

Water John wrote: »

Problem was, the religious zealots drove the No campaign.

No they did not! Read posts here. Churches and folk of faith have every right and need to oppose abortion. Democracy allows that.

And a third of the population is a sizaeble NO!

Graces7 · 28-05-2018 07:29AM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

It’s over! The People who we all voted in will now legislate.

Wanna bet?

Graces7 · 28-05-2018 07:41AM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Your belief system is dated. You'll have to get over that at some stage or else you'll have a miserable life. Be more accepting of people. The world is not out to get you. The people of the world want it to be a better place for them and their future generations. Your thoughts are part of a group that is dying off. It will never die off completely as there will always be a few younger people raised with the same albeit out of touch values such as that 28 year old. Live your life for yourself so that you enjoy it, and stop worrying about the rest of us that want to move on. Having a chip on the shoulder is bad for a persons health.

Oh no it isn't

Timberrrrrrrr · 28-05-2018 07:42AM

Graces7 wrote: »

No bitterness or anger here and I have not seen or heard any. Modernity indeed!!!!!!!

The real issues are only just starting of course.

Which issues would these be?

pauldla · 28-05-2018 07:49AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Which issues would these be?

Come now, do you think the abortion clinics are going to picket themselves?

dav3 · 28-05-2018 07:50AM

Graces7 wrote: »

Wanna bet?

Are you a bookies? How much money have you got to throw away on this?

After such an emphatic yes vote, it would be political suicide for the majority of no voting politicians to stand in the way of legislation.

Abortion is going to happen in Ireland.

Graces7 · 28-05-2018 07:54AM

Thanks Outlaw Pete and all the others here who were silenced long

The real battle has now only just begun as will be seen in the coming weeks.

That 2/3rd non-landslide vote was but the start

I am signing off on this as I am fighting my own health battle here and in my extreme old age .

Knowing that all is in safe and capable hands..

Blessings and peace to all here

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Seen a lot of posts like the above, both before and after the vote, and it's just simply untrue.

Well then you got him to vote Yes by giving him false information.

Abortions at 12 weeks and under in this country will NOT all be pill based. That is not the way it has been in the UK, France or Holland and there is zero reason to think that the abortions methods used here will be any different to elsewhere.

In 2016 (in the UK) 28% of abortions between 3 - 9 weeks were surgical and 84% of them between weeks 10 - 12:

Not that I feel it matters a whole lot how a baby in the womb reaches their demise (the end result is the same after all). However, the reason I feel it very much matters that it was incorrectly stated over and over again throughout the campaign is because voters (as evidenced by the user quoted) based their decision on it.

Telling people that 'Ah sure, it's just two pills and a heavy period' as many prochoice campaigners did, including Clare Daly, helped support the false narrative that a developing baby at between 10 - 12 weeks is just a 'clump of cells'. Bit harder to convince someone of that nonsense when you give them the truth and not just the truth with regards to likely abortive methods which will be used here but the full truth on what a late first trimester abortion can often entail.

Fr Tod Umptious · 28-05-2018 07:56AM

dav3 wrote: »

Are you a bookies? How much money have you got to throw away on this?

After such an emphatic yes vote, it would be political suicide for the majority of no voting politicians to stand in the way of legislation.

Abortion is going to happen in Ireland.

Well it all depends on what they stand in the way of.

I can see the first piece of legislation being the 12 weeks etc, and that's fine, that's what the government promised.

But in a general election situation I can see that being hottly debated.

That's the next battleground, government, not the Constitution are now in charge, so I'd be surprised if it does not become an election issue from now on.

It wasnt me123 · 28-05-2018 07:57AM

Calina wrote: »

I can't have children. I am fully in favour of Simon Harris's legislation. It is long overdue. I have a bunch of complex reasons for this; I have posted comprehensively in the threads so I will spare myself the trouble again.
................................

.

What a brave post. Its people like you and others on these types of forums that helped the Yes vote. Personal stories or real peoples lives.

I'm sorry you can't have children (if that was your wish) but on behalf of my 16 year old daughter, we both thank you for putting your story out there and helping to change the constitution for the better for all.

B0jangles · 28-05-2018 08:01AM

Graces7 wrote: »

Thanks Outlaw Pete and all the others here who were silenced long

The real battle has now only just begun as will be seen in the coming weeks.

That 2/3rd non-landslide vote was but the start

I am signing off on this as I am fighting my own health battle here and in my extreme old age .

Knowing that all is in safe and capable hands..

Blessings and peace to all here

Except for women who've had abortions of course; didn't you thank that insane post that suggested women who have had abortions should have their wombs forcibly removed?

That was a bit of an eye-opener I must say.

28-05-2018 08:03AM

Graces7 wrote: »

No they did not! Read posts here. Churches and folk of faith have every right and need to oppose abortion. Democracy allows that.

And a third of the population is a sizaeble NO!

Well it's still not as large as two thirds for yes, that's how elections work.

Churches should have no say in the running of any country, they can of course oppose abortion, but even some of the heads of the COI and Muslim faith came out in favour of repeal early on.

You quoted a good few extremist religious publications in all the threads before you got banned from them, even the Christianity thread if I remember correctly. While some people who voted no are not motivated by religion a good few obviously are including yourself and that's fine your entitled to your views, but so is everyone else who disagrees with them and voted yes in the majority. it just appears that you and a few other posters on the thread have an issue with the result of the vote at this stage and won't accept the will of the people.

Graces7 wrote: »

Wanna bet?

Well so far from what I heard over the weekend even the most ardent politicians for no have said that they will not delay the passing of the legislation as they will respect the obvious overall majority will of the people to enact it.

So how is it not over apart from perhaps lobbying your local TDs, or some delaying tactic court cases?

Again it appears you just have an issue accepting the majority will of the people as outlined in the vote.

28-05-2018 08:12AM

B0jangles wrote: »

Except for women who've had abortions of course; didn't you thank that insane post that suggested women who have had abortions should have their wombs forcibly removed?

That was a bit of an eye-opener I must say.

Yeah along with outlaw pete and end of the road. end if the road just thanked every no post including some of the most obvious trolls who got banned due to rereg, being a dick, racist etc. before and after he was banned himself, but of course the threads were just run by mods in support of repeal, wasn't that the arguement?

Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

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