The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

cournioni · 24-05-2018 10:28PM

Try_harder wrote: »

a 12 week old foetus wouldn't survive outside the womb, so not the same thing at all.

You’re still killing a growing living being inside the womb though. Outside of issues such as FFA, rape victims etc. this will strike a nerve with most people outside the Yes camp, including myself.

Guy:Incognito · 24-05-2018 10:28PM

Digital_Guy wrote: »

Or the prospect of a 7 or 8 month old baby being aborted.

Who has advocated for that outside of ffa?

This is the horse**** peddled to muddy the waters Nd sway undecided people.

Zubeneschamali · 24-05-2018 10:28PM

Digital_Guy wrote: »

If someone has been raped, all they should need to do is sign a document to that effect. That's it, no questions asked.

Abortion on demand! Floodgates! Hussies too lazy to use contraception (which is a sin anyhow, but...)

dudara · 24-05-2018 10:29PM

Digital_Guy wrote: »

Nothing at all if you're ok with a culture of abortion and more and more babies not having the right you enjoyed to be born I guess. Or the prospect of a 7 or 8 month old baby being aborted.

Honestly, stop the nonsense. A 7 or 8 month old foetus will be past the age of viability and will not be aborted. The pregnancy will be terminated through other means, if needed.

AMKC · 24-05-2018 10:29PM

So has everyone made their mind up on what way they are voting? Its 7 and a half hours till the voting stations open and I am still undecided but am leaning one way more than the other and a part of me just wants to spoil my vote with a line in the middle of the page. This is the first time since I have been able to vote in 20 years that I find the whole thing very boring, uninteresting and do not have a problem if people do or do not vote. It is the first time I have thought about spoiling my vote. I will sleep on it and decide tomorrow whenever I vote.

murpho999 · 24-05-2018 10:29PM

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Its their personal choice if they want to travel abroad for socio-economic reasons.

I would be in favour of "treating" for want of a better term the small number of unfortunate cases around rape, FFA etc here in Ireland. No problem with abortion in these limited circumstances.

The problem starts with abortion on demand which has the potential to be badly misused and over-used to the point it become as easy as getting a prescription from your GP.

It's not their personal choice to travel abroad for social economic reasons.

The 8th amendment forces them to travel abroad if they need an abortion.

Your rape proposals are unworkable as rape cannot be proven.

How can it be viewed as compassionate to force a rape victim to prove her pregnancy is a result of rape?

Also, how would you stop non rape victims who want an abortion from claiming they have been raped?

Stop referring to it as abortion on demand as no woman take's the decision lightly and to imply so is insulting.

I fail to see how it can be misused or abused.

I'm looking forward to seeing your posts on Saturday as I'm very confident that Yes will win and your arguments won't come to any fruition, thankfully.

Zubeneschamali · 24-05-2018 10:30PM

Trasna1 wrote: »

Less than 10k like divorce and the poll will almost certainly be found invalid.

You need more than a low number, you need some actual evidence.

And young wans taking selfies in Bangkok airport in repeal tshirts is not evidence of illegal voting.

Cupcake_Crisis · 24-05-2018 10:30PM

cournioni wrote: »

The viewpoint that most Yes voters can not grasp is this view from a lot of people:

Killing baby inside the womb is the same as killing a premature baby outside of the womb. They will wonder why one is acceptable and the other completely unacceptable?

If that’s the case why when I was told I was miscarrying was I sent home to “wait for it to pass”? Why didn’t they intervene?

Digital_Guy · 24-05-2018 10:30PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Who has advocated for that outside of ffa?

This is the horse**** peddled to muddy the waters Nd sway undecided people.

It'd be great if people could actually read what's actually happening out there instead of just firing out the two line responses on Boards.

This is what's afoot in the UK: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/20/abortion-is-part-of-our-calling-says-royal-college-of-midwives-c/

I like to think Ireland is different, but is it? I would hope so, if this carries!

Greysquirel09 · 24-05-2018 10:31PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

And I’m not disputing that at all, it’s a very legitimate concern.
The point I’m making is that for a lot of male No voters it appears to be their ONLY concern.

We'd all love everyone to take every bit of info into consideration when voting but that's never gonna happen. Everyone has different experiences.
On the flip side you have alot of Yes voters saying men shouldn't even have a vote on the issue.

antiskeptic · 24-05-2018 10:31PM

Try_harder wrote: »

a 12 week old foetus wouldn't survive outside the womb, so not the same thing at all.

Neither would a 4 year old kid, if you removed its life support.

nullzero · 24-05-2018 10:31PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

And the view that no voters don't grasp is that not everyone shares their view. But currently everyone is bound by their view.

Abortion will never be mandatory. So at no stage will no voters have to have one or be involved.

You just discounted official British figures in abortion rates as being produced by anti abortion groups.

cournioni · 24-05-2018 10:31PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

And the view that no voters don't grasp is that not everyone shares their view. But currently everyone is bound by their view.

Abortion will never be mandatory. So at no stage will no voters have to have one or be involved.

You’re still not grasping my point though, if you kill outside the womb it’s completely unacceptable right? Why is it acceptable inside the womb?

Overheal · 24-05-2018 10:31PM

nullzero wrote: »

I think we all understood what was being said.

I really do not. I can respect enough there’s some context I’m lacking here from the nature of your post but I do not know what persons/incident/thing you’re speaking about. Please elaborate.

antiskeptic · 24-05-2018 10:33PM

Deedsie wrote: »

Please any no voters reconsider your position... It is so cruel to force a mother to carry a child that is incompatible with life as long as the babies heart keeps beating. The baby can't and won't survive. You are forcing people to travel to Britain to have an abortion and then carry the baby home to bury it in Ireland.

I have stayed out of these debates but this is too important to stay out entirely. Please vote yes tomorrow for heartbroken mothers and fathers and their baby that has no hope of survival. Give them some bit of relief and let them choose what is the right thing for them to do in their own country.

Please vote yes.

Ffa I'd welcome the chance to do something about.

But at the cost you're asking?

Not a chance

Guy:Incognito · 24-05-2018 10:33PM

AMKC wrote: »

So has everyone made their mind up on what way they are voting? Its 7 and a half hours till the voting stations open and I am still undecided but am leaning one way more than the other and a part of me just wants to spoil my vote with a line in the middle of the page. This is the first time since I have been able to vote in 20 years that I find the whole thing very boring, uninteresting and do not have a problem if people do or do not vote. It is the first time I have thought about spoiling my vote. I will sleep on it and decide tomorrow whenever I vote.

Myself and my partner have 2 kids. And are done. Both are boys. So the reality is, we may very well never be directly involved with it (closest will be a daughter in law situation) .

It'd be very easy for us to just say "me, not my issue", but we're not. We're voting yes so that all the women we know and the ones we don't, can choose what's best for them. Be they 100% against abortion or in a position to need one the choice will be theirs.

Hotblack Desiato · 24-05-2018 10:34PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I'd be interested to know what their next crusade might be.

They will fight tooth and nail to ensure that children receive catholic indoctrination in schools against the will of their parents, as is happening now every day. Even though the constitution forbids this...

Guy:Incognito · 24-05-2018 10:34PM

cournioni wrote: »

You’re still not grasping my point though, if you kill outside the womb it’s completely unacceptable right? Why is it acceptable inside the womb?

Because I don't view it as the same. That my choice.

It's your choice to see it the way you choose and act accordingly. But to force that choice on others is wrong.

nullzero · 24-05-2018 10:34PM

Overheal wrote: »

I really do not. I can respect enough there’s some context I’m lacking here from the nature of your post but I do not know what persons/incident/thing you’re speaking about. Please elaborate.

The scissor sisters (or the Mulhall sisters) famously murdered and dismembered their mothers partner (himself an extremely nasty character) and distributed his body parts around Dublin, his head was never found. They gained the name scissor sisters because of the brutality of their crime and the then popularity of the band of the same name.

dudara · 24-05-2018 10:35PM

cournioni wrote: »

You’re still not grasping my point though, if you kill outside the womb it’s completely unacceptable right? Why is it acceptable inside the womb?

Honestly, we understand your point well enough. I can understand it. I personally don’t believe that within the first 12 weeks a woman should be forced to stay pregnant if she doesn’t want to be.

I think these are pretty irreconcilable differences. I don’t genuinely know if there is much room for middle ground, other than saying that I do acknowledge your view.

Paranoid Bob · 24-05-2018 10:37PM

Digital_Guy wrote: »

Au contraire, I most definitely do and I referred to this earlier. If someone has been raped, all they should need to do is sign a document to that effect. That's it, no questions asked.

- "You were raped. Oh you poor dear. Who did this to you? We'll make sure they pay!"
- "uh" (I have to give a name or they'll know I'm lying and I won't get the abortion) "It was John."

.. cue the investigation that makes John's life a misery and adds more guilt and shame on the woman who just needed support.

Stonedpilot · 24-05-2018 10:37PM

Deedsie wrote: »

Please any no voters reconsider your position... It is so cruel to force a mother to carry a child that is incompatible with life as long as the babies heart keeps beating. The baby can't and won't survive. You are forcing people to travel to Britain to have an abortion and then carry the baby home to bury it in Ireland.

I have stayed out of these debates but this is too important to stay out entirely. Please vote yes tomorrow for heartbroken mothers and fathers and their baby that has no hope of survival. Give them some bit of relief and let them choose what is the right thing for them to do in their own country.

Please vote yes.

No voters are voting No as they think abortion is sadistic and cruel.

To tear a baby apart in the womb. Lots of American abortion doctors are anti abortion now!..

There is a reason people hate seeing the graphic pictures of babies ripped up by some blunt anti abortion groups. Its the brutal Truth!.
Last thing people like in the world is brutal truth.

Thats what happens in surgical abortions!. Unborn ripped limb from limb.

Guy:Incognito · 24-05-2018 10:38PM

nullzero wrote: »

You just discounted official British figures in abortion rates as being produced by anti abortion groups.

Where did I? You need to learn to read things properly.

The poster bolded a part of their story they posted. This was a lead on from the previous message of mine he replied to.

The bolded part was an accusation by anti abortion groups. And that's what was being replied to.

jill_valentine · 24-05-2018 10:38PM

cournioni wrote: »

You’re still not grasping my point though, if you kill outside the womb it’s completely unacceptable right? Why is it acceptable inside the womb?

If I was found planning to get a plane to England and grab a random baby out of a pram and throw it down a well, I could be prosecuted.

If I was found planning to get a plane to England to get an abortion, I couldn't.

More to the point, would No campaigners try to physically stop me? Restrain me? If not, why not? Why weren't they lobbying against my right to travel as angrily as they're lobbying against repeal of the 8th?

What you're asserting is that the two acts are identical in the minds of No campaigners. But held up to the light, they clearly aren't. They understand quite well that there's a difference.

ArmaniJeanss · 24-05-2018 10:38PM

Hmmmmm, after seemingly 149 posts about the UK, can I just point out again that we share very little culturally with the sink estates of the UK. Thankfully no areas of Ireland have been left to rot quite like parts of Glasgow, Middlesboro, Burnley, Stoke etc.
We have a decent benefit system, not one where staff seem incentivised to get people down to zero from already low payments.
We are not the UK, there is nothing in how we run our country that suggests abortion figures would be anywhere close.

For any undecided lurkers looking for something other this curiously relentless barrage of posts about the UK, can I also remind them that we are voting such that your living wives and daughters won't be denied cancer treatment during their pregnancy because it would harm their equal rights foetus, that no woman will be told that 'this is a catholic country' as a virus attacks her system, that women will be treated with respect and dignity.

cournioni · 24-05-2018 10:38PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Because I don't view it as the same. That my choice.

It's your choice to see it the way you choose and act accordingly. But to force that choice on others is wrong.

Why don’t you view it as the same? They are still the same baby, just in a different location.

Alive inside the womb is an acceptable killing but outside it’s deemed murder?

circadian · 24-05-2018 10:39PM

Digital_Guy wrote: »

Nothing at all if you're ok with a culture of abortion and more and more babies not having the right you enjoyed to be born I guess. Or the prospect of a 7 or 8 month old baby being aborted.

You do realise that pregnancies of 7 or 8 months are regularly terminated in Ireland right? Or "aborted" as the no campaign would have you believe.

These terminations are usually delivery by C-section or induction. Completely misleading to suggest otherwise.

Zubeneschamali · 24-05-2018 10:40PM

cournioni wrote: »

Why don’t you view it as the same? They are still the same baby, just in a different location.

No-one is going to kill viable babies, in or out of the womb.

jill_valentine · 24-05-2018 10:41PM

nullzero wrote: »

The scissor sisters (or the Mulhall sisters) famously murdered and dismembered their mothers partner (himself an extremely nasty character) and distributed his body parts around Dublin, his head was never found. They gained the name scissor sisters because of the brutality of their crime and the then popularity of the band of the same name.

Which led to a very strange period of time when very serious mainstream journalists were using a crude slang term for a lesbian sex act in their reports every day to a blissfully unaware public.

namloc1980 · 24-05-2018 10:42PM

Digital_Guy wrote: »

Nothing at all if you're ok with a culture of abortion and more and more babies not having the right you enjoyed to be born I guess. Or the prospect of a 7 or 8 month old baby being aborted.

Where are you coming up with this from?

The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

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