The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

Nettle Soup · 23-05-2018 07:45PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Only just got round to watching last nights debate. Simon Harris played an absolute blinder.
Really hit the important points home, he was articulate, concise, and strong.
Really really impressed. He did a fantastic job.

Thought exact same. I was pleasantly surprised. Future Taoiseach material.

erica74 · 23-05-2018 07:46PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Sorry I’m not being facetious but is really, really unhelpful advice to someone having a crisis.

You’re going to have to do better than ‘just dont’.

Just don't have an abortion:pac:

Hotblack Desiato · 23-05-2018 07:48PM

Trasna1 wrote: »

How many times has she been rejected by the electorate now?

Elected into the Seanad by TCD graduates. But then Ronan Mullen was elected by NUI graduates...

Pac1Man · 23-05-2018 07:50PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Sorry I’m not being facetious but is really, really unhelpful advice to someone having a crisis.

You’re going to have to do better than ‘just dont’.

Your didn't suggest why they are having an abortion!

If they fell pregnant I believe they have a responsibility to have and raise that child.

eviltwin · 23-05-2018 07:52PM

Blud wrote: »

And out of interest, do you think you've convinced any yes to vote no?

I mean, I find campaigners insufferable in the main, even those on the side I'm voting on. All present their propaganda as truth, none can be trusted, accountable to nobody. I've avoided everyone as I imagine a campaigner on my side have a likely to annoy me into switching sides as a campaigner on the other is to persuade me to change.

Am I just contrary because of my superiority complex?

I don't know, no one has ever told me anyway. The people I've convinced are people who know me so maybe that makes a difference.

Hotblack Desiato · 23-05-2018 07:53PM

Field east wrote: »

RTE are covertly for a ‘Yes ‘ outcome.

Explain the Claire Byrne show last week, then.

The citizens assembly was ‘packed’ - some members were not correctly selected.

Evidence please. There was an issue with selection of some replacements, but that was long after the abortion issue had been dealt with.

If you vote ‘No’the government will have to go back to the drawing board and come up with legislation that is more acceptable than what is currently on the table.

This is the NO side's newest and biggest lie. Voting No will mean another possibly 35 years of women's health and lives being put at risk because of the 8th.

Why have none of the No side put forward an alternative constitutional amendment? No further legislative change is possible with the 8th in place as it is now. They are lying to you.

SusieBlue · 23-05-2018 07:54PM

Pac1Man wrote: »

Your didn't suggest why they are having an abortion!

If they fell pregnant I believe they have a responsibility to have and raise that child.

The reason is irrelevant, it’s a reason she feels to be serious enough to seek an abortion.
She shouldn’t need approval from you or me.

63k live births in Ireland in 2016 and 4K abortions, that alone will tell you women only use abortion when there is no other option.

I don’t believe forcing an unwilling woman into parenthood to be in the best interests of women or children.
For some people having an abortion IS taking responsibility.
And seeing as men can (and statistically do) frequently walk away from the responsibilities, I only think it’s fair that a woman has the choice.
Especially if she has limited support.

Calina · 23-05-2018 07:55PM

Pac1Man wrote: »

SusieBlue wrote: »

Sorry I’m not being facetious but is really, really unhelpful advice to someone having a crisis.

You’re going to have to do better than ‘just dont’.

Your didn't suggest why they are having an abortion!

If they fell pregnant I believe they have a responsibility to have and raise that child.

I actually no longer think this is true. I see that as the pregnancy as punishment - a punishment that only ever gets meted out to one parent.

antiskeptic · 23-05-2018 07:56PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Why have none of the No side put forward an alternative constitutional amendment?

Yes isn't exactly pitching for any kind of middle ground, are they.

I ain't saying it's right but could be a case of "what you have you hold".

And that that attitude is brought about, in part, by the extremism of the folk on the other side?

antiskeptic · 23-05-2018 07:57PM

Calina wrote: »

I actually no longer think this is true. I see that as the pregnancy as punishment - a punishment that only ever gets meted out to one parent.

Someone always has to go point. The question is whether they knew that would be the case.

Edit: I assume your talking of cases where the dad's feck off? This obviously alway isn't the case

NIMAN · 23-05-2018 07:57PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Our current system IS the UK.
We export all our abortion services to their healthcare system.
There is absolutely no worries about it being like that in 20 years because that’s exactly what we have now, and that’s the system we allow care for our women.

You know what I meant.

jill_valentine · 23-05-2018 07:58PM

Calina wrote: »

punishment that only ever gets meted out to one parent.

A lot of the No's think the same. That's what a lot of them like about it.

Pac1Man · 23-05-2018 08:00PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

The reason is irrelevant, it’s a reason she feels to be serious enough to seek an abortion.
She shouldn’t need approval from you or me.

63k live births in Ireland in 2016 and 4K abortions, that alone will tell you women only use abortion when there is no other option.

I don’t believe forcing an unwilling woman into parenthood to be in the best interests of women or children.
For some people having an abortion IS taking responsibility.
And seeing as men can (and statistically do) frequently walk away from the responsibilities, I only think it’s fair that a woman has the choice.
Especially if she has limited support.

4K who had to jump through hoops and travel abroad to get it done. I wonder what the figure will be if and when the motion is passed? That's the door that is about to be opened.

SusieBlue · 23-05-2018 08:04PM

Pac1Man wrote: »

4K who had to jump through hoops and travel abroad to get it done. I wonder what the figure will be if and when the motion is passed? That's the door that is about to be opened.

Or 4K women who we turned our back on during a distressing, traumatic time. Whose burden we made bigger for no good reason.
Depends on how you look at it.

The number will be what it will be. Most women, even in unplanned pregnancies, keep their babies. We need to support those who can’t, regardless of their reasons.
Her body, her life, her choice, she knows best. Not me.

Igotadose · 23-05-2018 08:05PM

Stonedpilot wrote: »

OK here's a new point.

What about women who regret the abortion and think it was a terrible decision?.

They might perhaps be on the fence as such with the pregnancy decision, are they are heavily pressurized by abortion clinics to terminate.

They are numerous websites of women who regret the decision like this Irish one http://womenhurt.ie/
and numerous websites exposing the pressure abortion clinics (for profit business in essence) put on women to terminate the pregnancy.

https://savethestorks.com/2017/11/went-abortion-clinic-herded-like-animals-women-exposing-truth-abortion/?nabe=5788403127025664:0&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

How about abortion clinics texting and ringing women who perhaps might have changed their mind and decided to keep the baby?. It happens (by the largest abortion clinic provider in the Uk no less.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-health/8771141/Women-will-be-texted-reminders-about-their-abortion.html

Personally I think it is disgraceful disgusting behavior that abortion clinics will pressurize women to abort but their are numerous stories from all over the World on this happening.

So let's discuss.

http://time.com/3956781/women-abortion-regret-reproductive-health/

From the Time article: "The authors of the study concluded that the “overwhelming majority” of the women participating in the study felt that abortion had been the right decision “both in the short-term and over three years.”
Study of women who've had abortions, 99% don't regret depending on demographic. http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0128832#sec013.

Recommendation from the study: "
Women experienced decreasing emotional intensity over time, and the overwhelming majority of women felt that termination was the right decision for them over three years. Emotional support may be beneficial for women having abortions who report intended pregnancies or difficulty deciding."

This has been brought up before on the thread. The women I know feel relief, not regret.

Pac1Man · 23-05-2018 08:08PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Or 4K women who we turned our back on during a distressing, traumatic time. Whose burden we made bigger for no good reason.
Depends on how you look at it.

The number will be what it will be. Most women, even in unplanned pregnancies, keep their babies. We need to support those who can’t, regardless of their reasons.
Her body, her life, her choice, she knows best. Not me.

You just used the full arsenal of buzz words there as a response.

In reality your response was simply "the number will be what it will be".

I can't get behind that and that's why I'm voting no.

SusieBlue · 23-05-2018 08:10PM

Pac1Man wrote: »

You just used the full arsenal of buzz words there as a response.

In reality your response was simply "the number will be what it will be".

I can't get behind that and that's why I'm voting no.

Are you saying that these faceless strangers will be better off having these babies that they do not want, even though we have no idea of their circumstances?
Do you think you have a better idea of what’s good for a woman than she does? Even a woman you don’t know?

By voting No you are deciding on her behalf. You are saying you know better than her.
She doesn’t need to be saved from herself.

amdublin · 23-05-2018 08:13PM

Sweet Jesus Donegal covered on the rte news there. Would give you high blood pressure

Some anti choicer aul fella
"We just hope and pray we can keep no Irish abortions"

A bit thick?? Or genuinely doesn't know that Irish abortions happen every day?

DickSwiveller · 23-05-2018 08:13PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Simon Harris did well last night in the debate.

The No side seems to be falling apart at this stage, Maria Steen is their strongest debater and it looks like she will be a no show for the TV3 debate.

I thought he was awful Avoided every difficult question and resorted to slogans and sanctimony.

circadian · 23-05-2018 08:13PM

Martina1991 wrote: »

Sepsis, stroke, cardiac arrest, haemorrhage etc etc occur very quickly.

I don't want to be a ticking time bomb playing Russian roulette with my life.

doylefe wrote: »

Very selfish attitude to take.

Absolute dick response. Total rocket.

theballz · 23-05-2018 08:14PM

Im starting to lean towards a no vote

antiskeptic · 23-05-2018 08:15PM

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Thought exact same. I was pleasantly surprised. Future Taoiseach material.

And has the ambition for according a fine gaeler I know.

You can see where killing the 8th slots into things

Simon the Dragonslayer. It would come in handy when Leo is slain

circadian · 23-05-2018 08:16PM

theballz wrote: »

Im starting to lean towards a no vote

Well you were giving out "Garda info" over in the Jastine thread so I'd take anything you say with a pinch of salt.

antiskeptic · 23-05-2018 08:16PM

theballz wrote: »

Im starting to lean towards a no vote

Let me guess: too far

gctest50 · 23-05-2018 08:17PM

Harris said it best last night :

"We stand here with the luxury of being two men, who will never be in a crisis pregnancy."

theballz · 23-05-2018 08:18PM

circadian wrote: »

Well you were giving out "Garda info" over in the Jastine thread so I'd take anything you say with a pinch of salt.

Why does it upset you that I am excerising my right as an Irish citizen to vote in a manner that doesn’t suit you?

And if you take the time to read back on my so called “Garda info” you will see that was in fact true.

theballz · 23-05-2018 08:19PM

antiskeptic wrote: »

Let me guess: too far

Apparently so. Lol

SusieBlue · 23-05-2018 08:19PM

theballz wrote: »

Why does it upset you that I am excerising my right as an Irish citizen to vote in a manner that doesn’t suit you?

And if you take the time to read back on my so called “Garda info” you will see that was in fact true.

What’s leaning you towards No?

amdublin · 23-05-2018 08:20PM

gctest50 wrote: »

Harris said it best last night :

Also:
Do you know what else is great at protecting pregnancies? WOMEN

I thought he was awesome

DickSwiveller · 23-05-2018 08:20PM

amdublin wrote: »

Sweet Jesus Donegal covered on the rte news there. Would give you high blood pressure

Some anti choicer aul fella
"We just hope and pray we can keep no Irish abortions"

A bit thick?? Or genuinely doesn't know that Irish abortions happen every day?

So does child trafficking. Should we legalise it? Genuine question.

The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

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