The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

Captain Flaps · 22-05-2018 12:30PM

Charmeleon wrote: »

Do you support abortion on demand at 8 months?

And this, folks, is the problem wrapped up in a nice little package. If the No takes it this Friday it'll be because of reprehensible misdirection and lies like this.

Charmeleon, this is disgraceful and you should be ashamed of yourself for this revolting post. And for spreading such vile waffle to people who might actually believe it.

seamus · 22-05-2018 12:30PM

spookwoman wrote: »

In the last 30 mins or so Tim Jackson of Youth defense gatecrashed a meeting of yes politicians at a womens health event. This is the same guy who quote Ellen Coyne "is involved in rogue and misleading crisis pregnancy agencies," also
"Tim refused to answer questions on which organisation he volunteers with (it’s Youth Defence) if he believes abortion causes breast cancer (he does) and he claimed he was a member of the media (he isn’t)"

Expect peak crazy from the No campaign between now and the media blackout. Just time enough to spread confusion, but not enough time to call out their bullsh1t.

Zubeneschamali · 22-05-2018 12:31PM

circadian wrote: »

the No side seems to be a very loud minority.

Loud and very well funded, but really just the same core of conservative 1950s Catholics we saw off in the SSM referendum.

spookwoman · 22-05-2018 12:31PM

kanadams123 wrote: »

Can you provide a link/reference for this?

No problem will be a few links to twitter
https://twitter.com/ellenmcoyne/status/998896055637987328
https://twitter.com/ellenmcoyne/status/998898454830206976
https://twitter.com/RosannaCooney/status/998898672594276352
https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/998901458585227264

Charmeleon · 22-05-2018 12:32PM

gmisk wrote: »

Where are you getting 8 months from?
Its 12 weeks and its not "on demand" there is a 72 hour waiting time.

If the poster means what they say ‘stop using women as incubators’ then they seem to be suggesting keeping an 8 month pregnant woman pregnant is the same as a 3 months pregnant woman. The proposed law suggests women will not have a choice after 12 weeks but must be on some legitimate health grounds. The ‘forced incubators’ argument has to be an argument for full term.
abortion as well as 12 weeks.

Timberrrrrrrr · 22-05-2018 12:32PM

Charmeleon wrote: »

Do you support abortion on demand at 8 months?

On demand no i wouldnt but for FFE or danger to the woman's life I do.

Also at 8 months it wouldn't be an abortion it would be a termination of pregnancy.

kanadams123 · 22-05-2018 12:33PM

spookwoman wrote: »

No problem will be a few links to twitter
https://twitter.com/ellenmcoyne/status/998896055637987328
https://twitter.com/ellenmcoyne/status/998898454830206976
https://twitter.com/RosannaCooney/status/998898672594276352
https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/998901458585227264

Thanks!

Charmeleon · 22-05-2018 12:33PM

Captain Flaps wrote: »

And this, folks, is the problem wrapped up in a nice little package. If the No takes it this Friday it'll be because of reprehensible misdirection and lies like this.

Charmeleon, this is disgraceful and you should be ashamed of yourself for this revolting post. And for spreading such vile waffle to people who might actually believe it.

Why the abuse? I explain why it is logical in a later post.

circadian · 22-05-2018 12:34PM

DOS wrote: »

No. Retain the 8th. Protect the unborn, protect those with disabilities, DS etc. Offer women something other than a culture of death. Love the mother and baby but put the mother's life first in life threatening situations. Stop the tide of abortion on demand.

Long live life, humanity and Christian culture.

Ah yes, let's continue to impose a religious culture on a rising number of people who disagree with it.

A lot of people who believe in this also believe in stopping immigration from predominantly Muslim countries out of fear of Islam being imposed. Sheer hypocrisy.

Dressing gown · 22-05-2018 12:34PM

Charmeleon wrote: »

Do you support abortion on demand at 8 months?

No such thing.

ohnonotgmail · 22-05-2018 12:34PM

DOS wrote: »

Factually incorrect as only 1,000 or so doctors out of 20,000 have declared for Yes.

i said

Of course the No side have a lot less doctors that agree with them on how the 8th affects women's healthcare.

I didnt say that MOST doctors have declared for Yes i said that MORE doctors have declared for Yes than No. Perhaps you didnt catch that?
[/QUOTE]

Captain Flaps · 22-05-2018 12:35PM

Charmeleon wrote: »

Why the abuse? I explain why it is logical in a later post.

You really didn't though. It's just typical slippery slope logical fallacy.

suicide_circus · 22-05-2018 12:35PM

Once we can generate artificial wombs outside the body women will be free of the awful burden of child birth and pregnancy.

OldNotWIse · 22-05-2018 12:35PM

gmisk wrote: »

Where are you getting 8 months from?
The proposed legislation is 12 weeks and its not "on demand" there is a 72 hour waiting time.

...and 6 months on vague mental health grounds.

Bredabe · 22-05-2018 12:36PM

DOS wrote: »

No. Retain the 8th. Protect the unborn, protect those with disabilities, DS etc. Offer women something other than a culture of death. Love the mother and baby but put the mother's life first in life threatening situations. Stop the tide of abortion on demand.

Long live life, humanity and Christian culture.

Genuine questions here, how will the mother who chose not to terminate be supported?.
Given we all know the housing/childcare/healthcare/job options are out of reach for most single mum's in this country.

Also, what plans are to be put in place for women whose health is put in danger because of a pregnancy? lastly, what is the plan to deal with the effect of the 8th on women who are not pregnant or are perimenopausal, who suffer because of its implementation?

Be as detailed as you can be, I'm fascinated to see how these everyday situations will be handled under the 8th.

Hotblack Desiato · 22-05-2018 12:36PM

Charmeleon wrote: »

Do you support abortion on demand at 8 months?

That's not abortion, it's early delivery and it happens all the time for various reasons.

ohnonotgmail · 22-05-2018 12:37PM

DOS wrote: »

'paragon of virtue'.. this is defined by whether you approve of transgenders or not!!

what makes you think you are in a position to "approve" of people? Judge not lest ye be judged, is that not what the bible says?

gmisk · 22-05-2018 12:37PM

Charmeleon wrote: »

If the poster means what they say ‘stop using women as incubators’ then they seem to be suggesting keeping an 8 month pregnant woman pregnant is the same as a 3 months pregnant woman. The proposed law suggests women will not have a choice after 12 weeks but must be on some legitimate health grounds. The ‘forced incubators’ argument has to be an argument for full term.
abortion as well as 12 weeks.

Oh come on!
I dont even think you believe this?

Charmeleon · 22-05-2018 12:38PM

Dressing gown wrote: »

No such thing.

Exactly my point. The yes side should stop using the ‘forced human incubators’ argument, if they want to convince moderates, as this is the logical conclusion of it.

jibber5000 · 22-05-2018 12:39PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I wouldn't use the word "excellent" myself. I'd say "one eyed"; "selective"; "misleading"; "emotive".

It's not as emotive as Una Mullally's article today in the Irish Times.
"Where were no when babies were put in septic tanks". The vast majority of the no side weren't alive when that happened but don't let that impact on emotive headlines which have nothing to do with abortion

LuckyLloyd · 22-05-2018 12:40PM

DOS wrote: »

No. Retain the 8th. Protect the unborn, protect those with disabilities, DS etc. Offer women something other than a culture of death. Love the mother and baby but put the mother's life first in life threatening situations. Stop the tide of abortion on demand.

Long live life, humanity and Christian culture.

DOS wrote: »

Imagine his 5 predecessors are anti abortion.

Also he couldn't argue a point in a schools debate. An arrogant man.

Also ethical and moral issues aswell as medical.

Divorce was a moral issue, a christian issue.
Marriage equality was a moral issue, a christian issue.
There is a growing silent majority in this country who refuse to be told what is morally or ethically right by those who allowed Tuam to happen. Magdalene to happen. Who protected hundreds of child abusing priests.

You and your kind are dying out. Ireland is moving on. The women of this state deserve far better than what you and your ilk are peddling.

ohnonotgmail · 22-05-2018 12:40PM

spookwoman wrote: »

No problem will be a few links to twitter
https://twitter.com/ellenmcoyne/status/998896055637987328
https://twitter.com/ellenmcoyne/status/998898454830206976
https://twitter.com/RosannaCooney/status/998898672594276352
https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/998901458585227264

what a clown.

....... · 22-05-2018 12:40PM

This post has been deleted.

DOS · 22-05-2018 12:40PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Loud and very well funded, but really just the same core of conservative 1950s Catholics we saw off in the SSM referendum.

'We saw off'. Lol!! On so many levels that's hilarious! You sound like your in Dad's army!

Whatever the result on Saturday the Republic of Ireland will retain a strong core of at least 40% with strong Christian values. Quite something in this secular age. A Christian light that will never be extinguished.

The land with no values, no morals that you and others propose will be one of unhappiness, high suicide rates, bleak and empty of concern for others. The cult of the individual will dominate along with tawdry commercialism.

ohnonotgmail · 22-05-2018 12:43PM

Charmeleon wrote: »

Exactly my point. The yes side should stop using the ‘forced human incubators’ argument, if they want to convince moderates, as this is the logical conclusion of it.

what exactly would you call forcing a woman to remain pregnant against her will?

Buford T. Justice XIX · 22-05-2018 12:43PM

Charmeleon wrote: »

Do you support abortion on demand at 8 months?

Mod note: Charmeleon, don't post in this thread again,

Buford T. Justice

spookwoman · 22-05-2018 12:44PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what a clown.

Gets better

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/998906784160022529

on a self-declared ‘hunger strike’ (though he went home and ate at night).

gmisk · 22-05-2018 12:44PM

jibber5000 wrote: »

It's not as emotive as Una Mullally's article today in the Irish Times.
"Where were no when babies were put in septic tanks". The vast majority of the no side weren't alive when that happened but don't let that impact on emotive headlines which have nothing to do with abortion

Well thats not exactly true is it? considering Mother and Baby Homes run by religious orders were still in existence until the late 1990s.

22-05-2018 12:44PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

Once we can generate artificial wombs outside the body women will be free of the awful burden of child birth and pregnancy.

Wow. The contempt for women is strong here.

LuckyLloyd · 22-05-2018 12:44PM

jibber5000 wrote: »

It's not as emotive as Una Mullally's article today in the Irish Times.
"Where were no when babies were put in septic tanks". The vast majority of the no side weren't alive when that happened but don't let that impact on emotive headlines which have nothing to do with abortion

The same moral absolutism that produced the shame of Tuam wants to continue denying healthcare in this state to women in distress. That same moral absolutism told us society would fall apart if divorce was allowed; that same moral absolutism - after shaming and persecuting homosexuals for decades - told us that marriage should be the preserve of heterosexual people only.

I can see where Una Mullally is coming from. I also see exactly where Eilis O' Hanlon is coming from too - a place of great judgement and condemnation, utterly bereft of care or compassion.

The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

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