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Men's rights on Abortion?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    bubblypop wrote: »
    So? I don't understand why this matters?
    My father wanted my mother to her an abortion.
    My best friend went for an abortion & changed her mind.
    Both I & my friends daughter are pro choice & will be voting yes.
    I don't see the point here?

    Absolute hypocrisy from the original post about the no badge and does your side no favors, all i see is someone so caught up in the group think that they think any opposing view is dangerous.

    Why are we even having a vote? If its already been decided.

    Just illustrates what this vote is to us men, its not just about the hard cases but its also about bigger social issues and how if we vote yes we might be screwing ourselves in the long run.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    Well, good question, Sarah Catt tried to procure an abortion at 29 weeks and eventually resorted to pills mere days before the baby was due. She was having a long standing affair at the time. Another young woman did similar a few years ago also but I'd have more a lot more empathy for her than I would Sarah as she seems to have some mental health issues which I don't feel were giving as much credence as they perhaps should have been.

    Then there was the UK GP who was caught helping to arrange 8 month pregnancy abortions in Spain for some of her patients in an uncover sting. Came out also that she had even arranged an eight month abortion for her own daughter. How many had she arranged before being uncovered one has to wonder.

    Just on the following also, Susie:



    I keep seeing this kind of comment being made, and not just by yourself, but many users, and indeed some Irish medical professionals, and it is totally false. There is zero reason to think that abortion methods in Ireland will be much different to that of the UK and will only require women here taking two pills and having a heavy period.

    In fact, in the UK 84% of abortions between 10 -12 weeks are surgical and even if we go down to between 3 - 9 weeks gestation, 28% of those abortions are surgical also:

    Can’t speak for anyone else but I’m fine with surgical abortions. An abortion is an abortion.

    As for Sarah Catt and the other few examples. Well, there’ll always be outliers. On any topic you can think of. Point to any piece of legislation and I bet you could find detrimental unintended consequences. It’s impossible to fully stamp them out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    Calhoun wrote: »
    Absolute hypocrisy from the original post about the no badge and does your side no favors, all i see is someone so caught up in the group think that they think any opposing view is dangerous.

    Why are we even having a vote? If its already been decided.

    Just illustrates what this vote is to us men, its not just about the hard cases but its also about bigger social issues and how if we vote yes we might be screwing ourselves in the long run.

    In what way? Not being told about the pregnancy and subsequent abortion? The ship has sailed on that one. Women have a constitutional right to travel to procure an abortion.

    If it's concerning the concept of legal abortion, voting no in protest at that not yet existing strikes me as spiteful. AFAIK, that’s not legal anywhere yet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    In what way? Not being told about the pregnancy and subsequent abortion? The ship has sailed on that one. Women have a constitutional right to travel to procure an abortion.

    If it's concerning the concept of legal abortion, voting no in protest at that not yet existing strikes me as spiteful. AFAIK, that’s not legal anywhere yet.

    The anti-male rhetoric and general not having an opinion unless its the right one. This referendum on one level could be Irelands trump moment, i highly doubt it as i think it will carry.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    Calhoun wrote: »
    The anti-male rhetoric and general not having an opinion unless its the right one. This referendum on one level could be Irelands trump moment, i highly doubt it as i think it will carry.

    There is unfortunately a small proportion of yes voters who think that men shouldn’t have a say. That’s wrong of course. This is a democracy and you can’t pick and choose who gets to vote on what. And of course men should have a say.

    The scenario in which I think the woman should get the final say is where she is pregnant and wants to abort and the man doesn’t want her to. A discussion should be had. If agreement can’t be reached, there is literally no way equality will be achieved in this scenario. It’s impossible. The person who is physically affected should get the deciding vote, IMO. Voting no won’t change this scenario.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    Can’t speak for anyone else but I’m fine with surgical abortions. An abortion is an abortion.

    I agree with you with regards to the final outcome, as whether an abortion is carried out with the use of pills or via surgery, a life is still ended, and so what difference does it really make what the abortion method was.

    However, when certain people frame abortion as just being about taking a couple of pills and having a heavy period (as many have, including TD Clare Daly) it is deliberately being said to underplay what is often involved and to tie in with the false narrative that a developing baby at 12 weeks gestation (for example) is just really a clump of cells.
    As for Sarah Catt and the other few examples. Well, there’ll always be outliers. On any topic you can think of. Point to any piece of legislation and I bet you could find detrimental unintended consequences. It’s impossible to fully stamp them out.

    Also agree, but it's when people act like no woman would ever choose to procure a late stage abortion that results in these admittedly rare occurrences being cited. It's why the whole 'Trust women' thing makes me laugh. Trust a whole gender? Come on now. It's a farcical request as even if something is very rare, society should still legislate for it.

    Few days ago some guy was jailed for slipping some abortion pills into his girlfriend's tea. He received 20 years, 17 suspended, which I guess is fair enough. If anything he was very lucky, as some guys have got much worse for the same crime and when the fetus was at a much much earlier stage of gestation too.

    But, can anyone imagine men asking for this kind of thing to no longer be a prosecutable crime, and saying 'Trust men!'. Course not, it would seem preposterous as it would be preposterous, given that we know what some men are capable of and therefore we need to make sure such things remain illegal, rare and all as they are.

    Now I know that analogy will be considered to be a poor one, but only only from a prochoice perspective is it such as while, yes, a man slipping an abortion pill into his girlfriend's tea is ultimately doing something to another person's body, so to is the act of having an abortion........ from a prolife perspective.

    Just seen this lad's tweets on Twitter and thought he came across very well and Dad's are something we haven't heard too much from during the referendum so far.................

    https://twitter.com/DaithiOConaire/status/993131126725251072


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,741 ✭✭✭Effects


    Just seen this lad's tweets on Twitter and thought he came across very well and Dad's are something we haven't heard too much from during the referendum so far.................

    Where is Daithi going to stop though? Who's to say he won't want to shut down assisted reproduction clinics after he gets what he wants and the no vote passes?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,538 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Effects wrote: »
    Where is Daithi going to stop though? Who's to say he won't want to shut down assisted reproduction clinics after he gets what he wants and the no vote passes?

    if he does then he does. he can want it away as it's not going to happen.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,181 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    From a men's rights perspective, if we give up our first right which is the right to life, we don't get any more rights. It's our first and only right until were born we should protect it at all odds and give the next generation the same chance we all had.
    Some posters don't seem to mind if they were aborted. I can't agree with that and there 11 week old selves wouldn't agree either, I'm certainly glad to have lived. It's a strange and slightly twisted rhetoric from the yes camp.

    Honest article in the Times today from a woman who travelled and regrets not letting the 8th protect her. https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/as-an-irish-woman-who-travelled-for-an-abortion-a-yes-vote-will-not-represent-me-1.3502940?mode=amp

    The 8th does protect women, children and men as it stands. It's worth keeping our first right. I don't know how anyone alive could argue it's not worth protecting.
    We seem to want the right to everything at the cost of our 1st and most important right.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,181 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


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    An odd bunch the Yes side, wouldn't care less if they were aborted.
    Missing the fact that besides all the odds they made it and won't give someone else the same chance.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,181 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    I understand my first right was one of life. You want to take that away and give me nothing in return because I'm a man.
    It's quite clear you don't have friends who could have fallen foul of abortion or were they merely mistakes that got lucky.

    The bigger picture is more people will die and men are giving up their only right.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 807 ✭✭✭Jenneke87


    ted1 wrote: »
    Jenneke87 wrote: »
    I had to have all three of my pregnancies terminated, or " the babies killed" as some of you like to call it. Only that is the reason I'm currently alive. I'm grateful that in my home country there is abortion on demand so that women, when they need to, can safely terminate.
    I believe that some pro-lifers massively misunderstand how difficult it is to make that decision. We don't go in there    with a smile on our faces in anticipation of the free tea and cookies will get after the procedure. In my country murder will get you 25 years. If you " kill" at six weeks gestation the fetus is the size of a grain of rice, yet some of you want to put the two on equal footing, it's just bizarre..To become completely without rights just because you can get pregnant is truly a scary idea and one, I bet that wouldn't even be discussed if men could get pregnant. I also wonder if those that are pro-life and claim that poverty of lack of finances to properly raise is not a reason to abort a child would financially support a woman so she can keep it, but we all know the answer..Suddenly the child is no longer their business..
    Three days ago, here, a 19 year old girl gave birth, put the baby in a plastic bag  and left it to die on the balcony, which the baby did. I was horrified, first of all for the baby but also because, if she truly did not want the baby, she could have safely terminated the pregnancy. I'm sure the baby was now far more aware of it's impending death than it would have been had she terminated. 
    A pregnancy and it's continuation is between the woman, her partner if still on scene and her GP and no-one else.
    If your life was at risk you could have had the abortions here under r the 2013 act[/quotem

    Maybe so. I dont come from Ireland and was 20 years old at the time. I had no idea this act even existed and I know no doctor ever mentioned it. I just knew that abortion wasn't possible and had to travel. The other times I was in my home country so no travel was required.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,550 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    I understand my first right was one of life. You want to take that away and give me nothing in return because I'm a man.
    It's quite clear you don't have friends who could have fallen foul of abortion or were they merely mistakes that got lucky.

    The bigger picture is more people will die and men are giving up their only right.


    Never thought of it that way! The 8th gives the co creator the only right he has over his co creation in the womb.

    27k, 25k, 55k, 91k, 133k. The number of abortions per year in the UK for the 5 years following legalisation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Never thought of it that way! The 8th gives the co creator the only right he has over his co creation in the womb.

    27k, 25k, 55k, 91k, 133k. The number of abortions per year in the UK for the 5 years following legalisation.

    No it doesn't. She has a constitutional right to travel to the UK for an abortion (as 4k women currently do) and there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop her.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,550 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    ....... wrote: »
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    I thought 'faux outrage' was your middle name. Something signed on your dotted line.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,181 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    ....... wrote: »
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    Men have a right as it is. They have 0 rights in anything that's proposed. I get the feeling you don't think they should have any and the one they have should just be given up.
    This has to be the worst deal for men in the history of deals maybe ever.


  • Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's quite clear you don't have friends who could have fallen foul of abortion or were they merely mistakes that got lucky.

    What is this rubbish again? My father wanted my mother to have an abortion. She chose not to.
    My best friend went to England &then changed her mind.
    Me & my friends daughter are both voting yes. As is my best friend & mother.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,550 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    No it doesn't. She has a constitutional right to travel to the UK for an abortion (as 4k women currently do) and there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop her.

    That doesnt alter it being the only right I have.

    Besides, your supposing abortion wont increase when barriers to it are removed.

    Since when did removing barriers to consumption not increase consumption?

    Pretty dramatically in the UK - even if it wouldnt be so dramatic here, one trusts.


  • Posts: 19,178 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Men have a right as it is. They have 0 rights in anything that's proposed. I get the feeling you don't think they should have any and the one they have should just be given up.
    This has to be the worst deal for men in the history of deals maybe ever.

    I don't understand this?
    What difference does repealing the 8th have to do with men's rights?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,181 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    ....... wrote: »
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    Your in a men's rights on abortion thread asking men to give up their first right and I'm the one that doesn't understand, cute.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,181 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I don't understand this?
    What difference does repealing the 8th have to do with men's rights?

    The lose the right to life. Their first given and protected right.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,550 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    ....... wrote: »
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    You really suppose that the 133k abortions in year 5 arose because it took time to convince women to forsake back street abortions? That 133k was the actual demand pre '67.

    Or do you suppose that legalisation caused a relaxation in the effort to prevent unwanted pregnancies?


This discussion has been closed.
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