The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

pitifulgod · 22-05-2018 09:12AM

nullzero wrote: »

I'm not the one peddling empty rhetoric.

Given how Erica has talked about her personal in detail in a few of the threads to dates. I would view her statement that she values choice to be more than empty rhetoric. It's more a summation of how one couldn't help but feel triumphant if this referendum passes, it's a 35 year old piece of the constitution that has wrecked lives.

elvis83 · 22-05-2018 09:16AM

Leroy42 wrote: »

What convinced me, and I started off a leaning towards No, was that voting No achieves nothing. It simply maintains the current crazy situation.

Will it protect any girls from having an abortion. Clearly not, as 3k+ do so every year. So what does it achieve? The No claim it reduces the numbers. But really? In an era of open information, abundant travel opportunities, is that really true?

When has prohibition ever worked? It certainly has not worked in this case.

So I (if I was you!) would be asking your wife what she wants to get out of voting no. Is she happy with the current situation whereby women are denied health services until the very last, in some cases after protracted legal cases. Is she happy that women are forced to travel to a foreign country.

And what happens in the UK decide in the future to stop allowing this. That only UK residents can avail of the service? Will these women need to travel further?

I totally get why people want to vote no, I certainly do not relish voting yes and I get no joy out of any of this. But voting no achieves nothing, in fact it is worse than that. It is accepting the situation as it is now. The deaths of some women. The mental anguish. The pain, the hurt. The feeling of being cast adrift by the country that says they are a citizen.

We know all of this, we have seen it in practical terms the last 35 years. To vote no means that you are happy with that situation.

Exactly. This is why I'm voting yes. I have two young daughters, and if they ever find themselves in a tough situation, I want them to have full information and support from their own country. What kind of animals are we in this country, that think so little of our women?

Farming out the hard situations to another country. We should be ashamed.

Cupcake_Crisis · 22-05-2018 09:18AM

The one thing I really don’t like about the proposed legislation is that, to my knowledge, it offers nothing in the way of supplementary supports. If a yes goes through it needs to come with a vastly improved sex Ed plan, free and easily accessible contraception (condoms and medical) and better counseling services for women/families experience a crisis pregnancy.

ohnonotgmail · 22-05-2018 09:22AM

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

The one thing I really don’t like about the proposed legislation is that, to my knowledge, it offers nothing in the way of supplementary supports. If a yes goes through it needs to come with a vastly improved sex Ed plan, free and easily accessible contraception (condoms and medical) and better counseling services for women/families experience a crisis pregnancy.

It isn't intended to but there is nothing stopping the government passing additional legislation on related items. If it is not a yes vote we will see nothing of those additional items. Most on the No side are opposed to them.

....... · 22-05-2018 09:24AM

This post has been deleted.

SusieBlue · 22-05-2018 09:24AM

zeebre12 wrote: »

But I bet in later years they are not going to regret that they didn't have an abortion when they see their young child growing up. They need support. You can dress it up which ever way you like a life is a life. Lots of people living today would not be alive if we had abortion like the UK. So life only begins when it's out of the womb at 9 months?

You can't categorically say that. If women didn't have regrets, they'd all be amazing loving mothers and there would be no children in foster care. There would be no abused, neglected children.
Your view is overly simplistic. We cannot force women to have children they do not want, on the weak whim they might like it when the baby arrives.

We already have abortion like the UK. We allow them to provide pretty much all of our abortion services to our women. If you don't agree with how things in the UK are done, you nee to vote Yes to allow our government to legislate for a more conservative regime.
Otherwise nothing will change and women will continue to travel, as is their constitutional right.

Cupcake_Crisis · 22-05-2018 09:24AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It isn't intended to but there is nothing stopping the government passing additional legislation on related items. If it is not a yes vote we will see nothing of those additional items. Most on the No side are opposed to them.

But it really SHOULD be intended to as they are ways to reduce the abortion rate. But you’re right, I’ve absolutely no doubt that the no side would oppose such supports tooth and nail. Again.

ohnonotgmail · 22-05-2018 09:26AM

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

But it really SHOULD be intended to as they are ways to reduce the abortion rate. But you’re right, I’ve absolutely no doubt that the no side would oppose such supports tooth and nail. Again.

also none of the additional items require legislation. The government could implement them tomorrow if it had a mind to.

FrancieBrady · 22-05-2018 09:26AM

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

The one thing I really don’t like about the proposed legislation is that, to my knowledge, it offers nothing in the way of supplementary supports. If a yes goes through it needs to come with a vastly improved sex Ed plan, free and easily accessible contraception (condoms and medical) and better counseling services for women/families experience a crisis pregnancy.

If the conservative, religious zealots stayed away from Sex Ed, availability of contraception and counselling policy etc maybe we could design a system where everyone's needs and choices are catered for?

j8wk2feszrnpao · 22-05-2018 09:31AM

elvis83 wrote: »

Exactly. This is why I'm voting yes. I have two young daughters, and if they ever find themselves in a tough situation, I want them to have full information and support from their own country. What kind of animals are we in this country, that think so little of our women?

Farming out the hard situations to another country. We should be ashamed.

Please speak for yourself if you deem yourself an animal and are ashamed.
This type of nonsense where everyone must be grouped together based on your own feelings.
After much research, and deeply thinking about the issue, the future, and repercussions of the vote; I'm currently going to vote Yes.
But I don't need someone like you insulting those who may vote No because they have a conscience about the unborn. It doesn't mean they don't also care about the woman in the situation at the same time.

Cupcake_Crisis · 22-05-2018 09:33AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If the conservative, religious zealots stayed away from Sex Ed, availability of contraception and counselling policy etc maybe we could design a system where everyone's needs and choices are catered for?

You would think such a system would be easily designed but the attitude of ‘I don’t like it so no one can have it’ applies to that too. The ideal system, to my mind, would be one where sex Ed is offered in schools and if you don’t want your children learning it you simply opt out of it. You don’t agree with free contraception, don’t avail of it. Both are measures proven to reduce the rate of abortion. So essentially what the no side are doing is opposing abortions, but also opposing ways to reduce the numbers of abortions occurring.

spookwoman · 22-05-2018 09:33AM

No side have taken the rules of no posters on roundabouts as literal. For the No side that are looking to nitpick the picture, its a screenshot from a dashcam

kylith · 22-05-2018 09:33AM

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

The one thing I really don’t like about the proposed legislation is that, to my knowledge, it offers nothing in the way of supplementary supports. If a yes goes through it needs to come with a vastly improved sex Ed plan, free and easily accessible contraception (condoms and medical) and better counseling services for women/families experience a crisis pregnancy.

The extra depressing thing is that the PLC will fight tooth and nail against that, too.

Fred Swanson · 22-05-2018 09:37AM

This post has been deleted.

gmisk · 22-05-2018 09:40AM

Digs wrote: »

D16, older established estate and not one called from either side too.

D10 here had one visit from each side

erica74 · 22-05-2018 09:40AM

pitifulgod wrote: »

Given how Erica has talked about her personal in detail in a few of the threads to dates. I would view her statement that she values choice to be more than empty rhetoric. It's more a summation of how one couldn't help but feel triumphant if this referendum passes, it's a 35 year old piece of the constitution that has wrecked lives.

Thank you.
I have that poster on ignore anyway;)

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

The one thing I really don’t like about the proposed legislation is that, to my knowledge, it offers nothing in the way of supplementary supports. If a yes goes through it needs to come with a vastly improved sex Ed plan, free and easily accessible contraception (condoms and medical) and better counseling services for women/families experience a crisis pregnancy.

Well the thing is, it is still "proposed". After the referendum, if the 8th is repealed, is when the hard work really starts, lobbying your local political representatives about what you want the new laws to be and what other supports you would like put in place. And it will also be an opportunity for the No side to lobby their local political representatives about it.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

It doesn't mean they don't also care about the woman in the situation at the same time.

It does though. Forcing a girl or a woman to continue with a pregnancy she does not want to continue with is the very definition of not caring about the woman in the situation.

ohnonotgmail · 22-05-2018 09:41AM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Cue RobertKK reappearing and telling us that the professor was either wrong ,misquoted or quoted out of context.

Zubeneschamali · 22-05-2018 09:42AM

joe40 wrote: »

I haven't had a single caller to my house, or met anyone on a street giving out leaflets. Apart from posters nothing else promoting either side. Is this unusual?

I'm in Athlone town. I have had two women campaigning together for Yes at the door, about 2 weeks ago. That's it.

Hotblack Desiato · 22-05-2018 09:48AM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Now different referendum again I know!
Red C Poll three weeks before Children's Referendum was

The children's referendum had a very low turnout, so obviously a lot of people saying Yes to the pollsters didn't bother to vote in the end.

I don't think that'll be anything like as much of an issue this time around.

Zubeneschamali · 22-05-2018 09:49AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If the conservative, religious zealots stayed away from Sex Ed, availability of contraception and counselling policy etc maybe we could design a system where everyone's needs and choices are catered for?

In practice, we know that what they like to do is set up a service themselves that delivers bad education, misinformation and hides some of the choices. USI recently severed ties with Cura, the catholic crisis pregnancy crew, because they don't present abortion as an option.

gmisk · 22-05-2018 09:52AM

Ok...I honestly didnt think David Quinn couldnt get any more bizarre....I was wrong.....
He has gone full on tin foil hat now!
He has since deleted them lol

https://twitter.com/MajorThrill/status/998494770510139392

Hotblack Desiato · 22-05-2018 09:52AM

nullzero wrote: »

Sorry pal but this is simply more weak argument from you.

I'm not your pal, buddy.

Hotblack Desiato · 22-05-2018 09:54AM

nullzero wrote: »

This is a pathetic attitude to have about an issue of this nature. Abortion isn't something to be triumphant about no more than criminalization of women who need abortions is acceptable.

You have no right to tell me or anyone else what attitude I should have, just as you have no right to tell any woman to abort or not.

Even if we never get an abortion law, removing the 8th and its effects on the healthcare of pregnant women is a real cause for celebration.

Cupcake_Crisis · 22-05-2018 09:54AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I'm in Athlone town. I have had two women campaigning together for Yes at the door, about 2 weeks ago. That's it.

No together for yes campaigners out my way! Unless I missed them!

Hotblack Desiato · 22-05-2018 10:03AM

Captain Flaps wrote: »

New poster idea for LoveBoats!

DON'T GET PREGNANT

TRY FINGERING

So those piano lessons might pay off after all?

Captain Flaps · 22-05-2018 10:04AM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

So those piano lessons might pay off after all?

You'll be much quicker to find the G at least.

Wrongway1985 · 22-05-2018 10:10AM

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

But luckily there are a lot who think like you and me and though it might be close in Tipperary, I think yes will still win.

Did you attend the Yes event above in the hotel I couldn't make it.

I haven't seen any Yes around apart from at the main guard one day. I have had no canvassers of any side come by mine I have however noticed more Loveboth pink hi-vis's out and about.

Hotblack Desiato · 22-05-2018 10:12AM

elvis83 wrote: »

What kind of animals are we in this country, that think so little of our women?

Farming out the hard situations to another country.

I'm not punning on the word farming, but pregnant cattle are better looked after than pregnant women in this country.

kylith · 22-05-2018 10:15AM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

elvis83 wrote: »

What kind of animals are we in this country, that think so little of our women?

Farming out the hard situations to another country.

I'm not punning on the word farming, but pregnant cattle are better looked after than pregnant women in this country.

Yeah, but a cow is worth money whereas women are technically worth nothing.

elvis83 · 22-05-2018 10:23AM

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Please speak for yourself if you deem yourself an animal and are ashamed.
This type of nonsense where everyone must be grouped together based on your own feelings.
After much research, and deeply thinking about the issue, the future, and repercussions of the vote; I'm currently going to vote Yes.
But I don't need someone like you insulting those who may vote No because they have a conscience about the unborn. It doesn't mean they don't also care about the woman in the situation at the same time.

Yes you are correct, I shouldn't speak for everyone, that's just how I feel. And that's the kind of lazy grouping that I would chastise the no voters for using.

Apologies again.

The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

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