The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

Ave Sodalis · 22-05-2018 06:40AM

pone2012 wrote: »

So stop misrepresenting me, and argue the point, rather than deflecting...you seem incapable of the former, and expert at the latter

Perhaps take a lesson in reading comprehension too, if you're struggling to understand my words...because based on that response you clearly seem to be either (a) unable to read them or (b) cherry picking sentences and crafting your response around them...which is ridiculous

pone2012 wrote: »

#2 no we havent because all ive heard is incessant babbling about me me me and "my pleasure" and "my desires". That is not proving it is not a realistic solution

Do you see the difference between the two? Or do I need to illustrate further

#2 You are inserting religion on absolutely zero basis...like every other juvenile poster in this thread, when in fact its nothing to do with my opinion and ive stated is SEVERAL TIMES. Your inability to accept that is what i dont like...its nothing to do with hearing the truth. Because for me to hear the truth, means you would have to actually be speaking it, which you clearly are not

Im sorry, but all you, and everyone else has done is proved the selfishness, narcissism and egocentricity are the rule of the roost in modern Ireland...and im still waiting for someone to come forward and actually debate that point...because anyone that says abortion is totally acceptable on financial grounds is only further proving the aforementioned

If you cannot understand it...perhaps you should read the posts I made

I am saying both are totally avoidable...are you disputing that?

pone2012 wrote: »

Genuine question...are you lacking in reading comprehension?

I'm just not some self centered egotistical slave to my senses who thinks the most important things involve me , what I want, how I can indulge as much as possible without repercussion and driven by a me first agenda that's narcissistic to the very core.

Yes, in aware it's the antithesis to your typical Irish mid twenties... but guess what I exist. DEAL WITH IT

pone2012 wrote: »

Mind you given the fact they you based your last post on absolutely nothing...I won't hold my breath

pone2012 wrote: »

Oh but I do dare, and please find a Safe space if my words offend you , or if you wish become like the snowflakes who cannot discuss issues that don't align with their worldview by simply not responding or crying offended

So in response to your how dare I, I do dare... and the two things you can do about it are #1 nothing #2 like it

pone2012 wrote: »

Yes I tend not to do agree with that "slave to the senses" mentality...it's quite problematic

pone2012 wrote: »

This " me me me" narrative is typical of anything to get everything they want and little to no restraint or sacrifice for anyone other than themselves

It's just a sad reflection of the modern mindset in Ireland

I must say, your posts really do paint a picture.

Annasopra · 22-05-2018 06:42AM

BattleCorp wrote: »

http://theliberal.ie/liam-neeson-who-has-no-vote-here-has-told-irish-people-they-have-to-vote-yes-in-the-abortion-referendum/

The Liberal have been posting plenty of articles like the one above. Another similar one referenced Bob Geldof and claimed that he was demanding people vote yes yet don't publish any quotes backing up their claim.

One might almost think that the Liberal were in the pay of the no campaign.

Leo Sherlock is Cora Sherlocks Brother

Overheal · 22-05-2018 06:42AM

nullzero wrote: »

How dare they put up posters on their own property.

They should be taken down already however, since the event they've advertised has expired, and they must be a politically neutral polling place this friday - as much neutral as a church can be I suppose.

Overheal · 22-05-2018 06:43AM

pone2012 wrote: »

Perhaps take a lesson in reading comprehension too, if you're struggling to understand my words...because based on that response you clearly seem to be either (a) unable to read them or (b) cherry picking sentences and crafting your response around them...which is ridiculous

Mr.H wrote: »

Why should I talk to you? You reported me for trolling FFS. I mean if you wanna debate fine but how do I know you won't just randomly report me again just because you get wound up by differing views.

See, these are the kinds of post that get people kicked off the thread, in case people were wondering then next time there are cries of an echo chamber.

nullzero · 22-05-2018 06:44AM

Overheal wrote: »

They should be taken down already however, since the event they've advertised has expired, and they must be a politically neutral polling place this friday - as much neutral as a church can be I suppose.

If they're still up on Friday then we have a problem.

erica74 · 22-05-2018 06:47AM

nullzero wrote: »

This is a pathetic attitude to have about an issue of this nature. Abortion isn't something to be triumphant about no more than criminalization of women who need abortions is acceptable.

Choice is something to be very triumphant about. It really is.

Cupcake_Crisis · 22-05-2018 06:49AM

pone2012 wrote: »

#1 I never said i didnt like sex...Inventing more nonsense now are we?

#2 no we havent because all ive heard is incessant babbling about me me me and "my pleasure" and "my desires". That is not proving it is not a realistic solution

All that proves is a vast majority of people think more of sexual intercourse than the life of an unborn in an everyday context ( despite the fact i was very context specific)

So we went from debating about the worth of mothers life vs the unborns life vs now to the act of coitus vs the unborns life

And its evident from the vast majority of responses I seen, that a lot of people would terminate an unborn rather than practice A LITTLE ABSTINENCE. And in the grand picture that says it all really

And dont bother running around saying I said nobody should every have sex ever, or everyone should never have sex until menopause. Either use my words in exactly the manner they were presented, or continue making yourself both look extremely foolish

Falling pregnant because you couldnt take the proper steps necessary to ENSURE you dont flal pregnant isnt a crises, its a situation that it totally and easily avoidable. And whether you like that or not is absolutley irrelevant because ive actually proven how it is totally aviodable and given real practical examples...and all you and the vast majority of repliers have done is insinuate how difficult and unfair it might be

Does that make my position clearer?

1- as grown, consenting adults we are perfectly entitled to be concerned about OUR desire and OUR pleasures. You keep preaching abstinence but have absolutely no interest in hearing that it’s not a realistic solution. Because, let’s face it, it’s not. Do I think more of sex than I do of a potential life that could be created? Absolutely. Because I take precautions and am not trying to conceive. I am having sex purely for the purpose of pleasure like the brazen hussy I am.

2- don’t get upset when people use what you have said against you. If you’re going to put forward a ridiculous argument at least have the balls to stand by it.

3- people can use every precaution under the sun and still get pregnant, it happens. It happened to me and guess what? I didn’t have an abortion! Shocking, I know. I,like thousands of other women who find themselves in the same situation as me, chose to continue with the pregnancy because the vast majority of women won’t be running to an abortion clinic at the first opportunity.

4- no, you absolutely haven’t made your position any clearer. Unless your position is ‘do not have vaginal penetrative sex unless it’s for the sole purpose of making a baby’. In that case you’ve made yourself very clear but refuse to hear why your “solution” isn’t a solution for everyone.

22-05-2018 06:56AM

pone2012 wrote: »

No because as I stated numerous times, it takes two to make a child..so that never was, nor will be my position

So stop misrepresenting me, and argue the point, rather than deflecting...you seem incapable of the former, and expert at the latter

Perhaps take a lesson in reading comprehension too, if you're struggling to understand my words...because based on that response you clearly seem to be either (a) unable to read them or (b) cherry picking sentences and crafting your response around them...which is ridiculous

Oh I can read perfectly well thank you. I can read between the lines also.
Your point is basically, if you don't want to be pregnant, abstain from sex.
Not realistic in anyone's relationship & Tbh a view I have only heard from one place.
I won't mention where, because it seems to touch a nerve!

If anyone has sex, using contraception, as a barrier to pregnancy, then they clearly don't wish to be pregnant.

erica74 · 22-05-2018 06:59AM

bubblypop wrote: »

Oh I can read perfectly well thank you. I can read between the lines also.
Your point is basically, if you don't want to be pregnant, abstain from sex.
Not realistic in anyone's relationship & Tbh a view I have only heard from one place.
I won't mention where, because it seems to touch a nerve!

If anyone has sex, using contraception, as a barrier to pregnancy, then they clearly don't wish to be pregnant.

And a pregnancy and/or a child should not be used as a punishment for a man and woman who enjoy consensual sex together without the intention of creating a baby.

Overheal · 22-05-2018 07:00AM

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

4- no, you absolutely haven’t made your position any clearer. Unless your position is ‘do not have vaginal penetrative sex unless it’s for the sole purpose of making a baby’. In that case you’ve made yourself very clear but refuse to hear why your “solution” isn’t a solution for everyone.

Seems to be the argument, and again while I agree it doesn't sit with me as a reason people should vote No, IMHO, I'd at least say it's not a bad suggestion in general to people to do more often than doing penetrative sex all or most of the time they get intimate. ie. it doesn't solve everything, but it could put a dent in unplanned pregnancy rates, sure.

nullzero · 22-05-2018 07:04AM

erica74 wrote: »

Choice is something to be very triumphant about. It really is.

Not as powerful a sentiment as you feel it is.

Overheal · 22-05-2018 07:09AM

nullzero wrote: »

Not as powerful a sentiment as you feel it is.

Tell me about it, I go to a grocery store in the US and have 70+ different types of butter to choose from. Why!?

But in the case of reproductive choice, I think that's a bit more empowering than picking Country Crock or Kerrygold.

Cupcake_Crisis · 22-05-2018 07:10AM

Overheal wrote: »

Seems to be the argument, and again while I agree it doesn't sit with me as a reason people should vote No, IMHO, I'd at least say it's not a bad suggestion in general to people to do more often than doing penetrative sex all or most of the time they get intimate. ie. it doesn't solve everything, but it could put a dent in unplanned pregnancy rates, sure.

It’s a bloody terrible suggestion! She’s asking grown, consenting adults to not engage in even safe sex. It’s one of the few pleasures we have left.

Overheal · 22-05-2018 07:12AM

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

It’s a bloody terrible suggestion! She’s asking grown, consenting adults to not engage in even safe sex. It’s one of the few pleasures we have left.

I mean I agree, but I understand the viewpoint, though I don't think it should be reasonably applied to all sex with a partner: plain and simple, people will have penetrative sex, with contraception, fully intent on avoiding pregnancy.

But we are landing on why this issue has been such a bugbear for countless generations.

erica74 · 22-05-2018 07:12AM

Overheal wrote: »

Seems to be the argument, and again while I agree it doesn't sit with me as a reason people should vote No, IMHO, I'd at least say it's not a bad suggestion in general to people to do more often than doing penetrative sex all or most of the time they get intimate. ie. it doesn't solve everything, but it could put a dent in unplanned pregnancy rates, sure.

So, what you're saying is that people need to be more experimental in bed? This thread has really taken a turn!

nullzero · 22-05-2018 07:13AM

Overheal wrote: »

Tell me about it, I go to a grocery store in the US and have 70+ different types of butter to choose from. Why!?

But in the case of reproductive choice, I think that's a bit more empowering than picking Country Crock or Kerrygold.

Nice try.
I don't think images of people celebrating in the streets should they occur are in sync with the gravity of this debate.
Essentially such images will be exploited by Fine Gael to consolidate their grip on political power in the next general election.

erica74 · 22-05-2018 07:13AM

nullzero wrote: »

Not as powerful a sentiment as you feel it is.

And you think you know or understand how I feel? :pac:

Overheal · 22-05-2018 07:14AM

erica74 wrote: »

So, what you're saying is that people need to be more experimental in bed? This thread has really taken a turn!

I'm not the one saying that I'm predictable in bed - and, reliable :pac:

Cupcake_Crisis · 22-05-2018 07:16AM

Overheal wrote: »

I mean I agree, but I understand the viewpoint, though I don't think it should be reasonably applied to all sex with a partner: plain and simple, people will have penetrative sex, with contraception, fully intent on avoiding pregnancy.

But we are landing on why this issue has been such a bugbear for countless generations.

It’s totally fine if that’s the way SHE wants to conduct HER sex life. But she’s preaching that we should all be practicing abstinence, looking down on those whose don’t and it’s codswallop of the highest order.

nullzero · 22-05-2018 07:16AM

erica74 wrote: »

And you think you know or understand how I feel? :pac:

Is this your argument?

Edward M · 22-05-2018 07:17AM

Overheal wrote: »

I'm not the one saying that I'm predictable in bed - and, reliable :pac:

I'm very predictable in bed, I always sleep in it.

Cupcake_Crisis · 22-05-2018 07:17AM

erica74 wrote: »

So, what you're saying is that people need to be more experimental in bed? This thread has really taken a turn!

If I recall correctly she’s a big advocate of the butt stuff!

nozzferrahhtoo · 22-05-2018 07:18AM

pone2012 wrote: »

Until conciousness is fully understood (if ever) we can't really say that they aren't people.

I've read stories of brain dead coma victims coming back and accurately recalling conversations that happened at their bedside

The reason for that is that coma patients ARE sentient agents. You do not become less of a human person when you fall asleep for example.

The degree of functionality of that sentience is compromised due to whatever medical issue has them in a coma, but they still ARE a sentient person. And there is nothing in science to preclude a person in a coma from experiencing things like conversations in their vicinity.

The fetus at 10/12 weeks when the near totality of choice based abortion occurs however is not a sentient agent. At all. In any sense that our science can discern. Even a little bit. This is no small difference.

The "not fully understood" approach to that topic is also something of a red herring. It does not NEED to be "fully" understood. We just have to understand it enough to know the fetus being terminated, at say 10 weeks gestation, has no sentience at all.

An analogy: If you are about to blow up a building, then it is useful to know that the building has no people in it. If there is, then it really is irrelevant how old they are, how many there are, how they got there, how long they have been there, what they are wearing, or just about everything else. But if they are wholly absent, you can blow up the building at will.

The same is essentially true here with abortion. As long as you can be sure (as sure as science gets, because of course we are not "sure" of anything in science) sentience has not come on line..... then the building is empty and you can blow it up.

pone2012 wrote: »

On top of that...it's effortless to combine 3 or 4 methods of contraception simultaneously with withdrawal if one wanted... making it damn near impossible to fall pregnant.

Of course "damn near impossible to fall pregnant" misses a simple statistical point which is that a tiny % of a large number.... gives a large number. People can of course combine contraceptive methodologies... and many do.

But even the failure rate of them combined, when you divide it into the LARGE number of copulation that occur in a population of several million, will still result in a significant number of unwanted pregnancies.

Overheal · 22-05-2018 07:20AM

nullzero wrote: »

Nice try.
I don't think images of people celebrating in the streets should they occur are in sync with the gravity of this debate.
Essentially such images will be exploited by Fine Gael to consolidate their grip on political power in the next general election.

I've never not seen any major political vote have a crowd of elated celebrators and a crowd of wounded, so to speak. It's all just a matter of perspectives:

(great day for pro-imperialists and the trade federation)

(great day for Trumpers) (and Russia (probably))

Generally speaking though it's hard to use 'celebration' imagery as a political tool isn't it? Like, maybe I'm out of the loop but did an Irish political party use a bunch of SSM celebrant imagery to run for re-election?

erica74 · 22-05-2018 07:37AM

nullzero wrote: »

Is this your argument?

What argument?

erica74 · 22-05-2018 07:40AM

Vote Yes people all around Waterford today, honk for repeal. They got a toot toot toot and big waves from me:D

gmisk · 22-05-2018 07:45AM

erica74 wrote: »

Vote Yes people all around Waterford today, honk for repeal. They got a toot toot toot and big waves from me:D

Lots of smiling yes people at luas stops today

I gave them a wee thumbs up and a cheeky wink ha

rgace · 22-05-2018 07:49AM

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

Oh god yeah. It’ll be all ‘the no side won the debate’ on every form of social media tomorrow. My Twitter is already crapping itself.

Just like on here it's all "the yes side won".

In fact, if you are already on one side or the other, I'd imagine it is literally impossible to think the opposite has "won" a debate.

spookwoman · 22-05-2018 07:50AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Can we please just ignore Sir Wanksalot?

Love it, that put a smile on my face

Cupcake_Crisis · 22-05-2018 07:50AM

I’m heading into Dublin CC for the first time since the campaigns kicked into gear today. Will be interesting to see if it’s as bad as people say it is.

The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

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