Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

Sin City · 21-05-2018 01:01PM

Omackeral wrote: »

Well both of these can't be correct. Pretty much a reason why the whole ''first'' thing is irresponsible.

Its not looking good for her
I hope Im wrong though

5star02707 · 21-05-2018 01:13PM

not losing hope and still positive that the Gardai can find her please please

Mongfinder General · 21-05-2018 01:15PM

Suckit wrote: »

Men in general
https://twitter.com/emmaryandublin9/status/998481786488401921

Who is this no mark? And who exactly is raising “our boys”? Single mothers, predominantly female pre school teachers and primary school teachers as well as in crèches and child minders. ffs, it’s the lack of a male role model that some kids miss these days. And fcuk her for taking cheap shots at men off the back of this poor girl’s situation

Strazdas · 21-05-2018 01:15PM

OB1Kildare wrote: »

according to reports the water unit have arrived at the place where they found her purse in rathmichael .....

That would be standard procedure in such a search

pjohnson · 21-05-2018 01:16PM

Omackeral wrote: »

Well both of these can't be correct. Pretty much a reason why the whole ''first'' thing is irresponsible.

Ah but first is best. Later is just AGS cover up right?

kunst nugget · 21-05-2018 01:16PM

Omackeral wrote: »

Well both of these can't be correct. Pretty much a reason why the whole ''first'' thing is irresponsible.

And one of the causes of so many conspiracy theories. 'Well, now they are saying it's one shooter but initial reports from terrified onlookers suggested that there was more than one shooter. It's obviously a cover up...'

pjohnson · 21-05-2018 01:18PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

And one of the causes of so many conspiracy theories. 'Well, now they are saying it's one shooter but initial reports from terrified onlookers suggested that there was more than one shooter. It's obviously a cover up...'

It wouldn't suprise me if some start expertly claiming the AGS shot her in the car last night and today is just a cover up. They aren't that far from reaching that level conspiracy.

Mrcaramelchoc · 21-05-2018 01:19PM

The Crowman wrote: »

Really? I've only seen one media reference to her being Phillipino. None of the early RTE reports stated this. I've seen this before in missing person cases involving African/Asian people and they never mention race/nationality. "Black hair, dark eyes" etc.

There's a Philippino being interviewed on rte 1 right now.she's from there.

Gatling · 21-05-2018 01:22PM

chicorytip wrote: »

This is nonsense. He is holding a knife as opposed to a high powered firearm. The garda response was disproportionate.

No it wasn't ,

If anything it was suicide by cop

Better than potentially having two innocent people murdered

CSWS101 · 21-05-2018 01:25PM

Hard to know what it is really.

https://twitter.com/StephGrogan3/status/998538209666707456

Mrsmum · 21-05-2018 01:28PM

Gatling wrote: »

No it wasn't ,

If anything it was suicide by cop

Better than potentially having two innocent people murdered

To be perfectly frank, I'm sure the only reason any of us would rather he was alive is for the sole reason to make him cough up re her whereabouts.

OscarBluth · 21-05-2018 01:29PM

In the last week, we've had a first year student sexually assaulted and murdered, possibly by someone close in age to her, and a 24 year old abducted by someone with a 'sexual motive' according to the gardai. I don't see what's wrong with investigating how we're raising the men who do this, and if there's a way to intervene earlier.

The 'lone psychopath' argument can be very damaging - ultimately, rates of sexual assault vary hugely throughout the world. There's not some set percentage of people who are evil who do this that can't be changed. There has been a huge upswing in use of very violent porn: I would personally like to see more investigations into the impact this has, if any, and what kind of steps we can take. Our conviction rates for sexual violence are low: if they were higher, would cases like this be less prevalent? The vast majority of people do not commit crimes like this, so what do we know about those who do?

The vast majority of cases like this have male perpetrators. It could be purely to do with their physical size, or it could be something else- either way not acknowledging that, and wondering if there's some way we're failing boys and men that contributes to it, seems pointless.

megatron989 · 21-05-2018 01:29PM

This lad could have been holding a rocket launcher, shotgun, knife, it doesn't matter. Draw a weapon on a garda and sorry but you've only yourself to blame for the outcome. Don't drive on the road if you aren't prepared to pay the toll. As I said, I for one am glad that in 7/10/12 years whatever, this lad won't be getting out and near me or mine. I'm also very sorry for the effected families but let's be real here.

Billy86 · 21-05-2018 01:30PM

Suckit wrote: »

Men in general
https://twitter.com/emmaryandublin9/status/998481786488401921

Talk about definitely doing nothing to help other than pushing an agenda. Unless, of course, she posted the exact same with the genders reversed when that woman stabbed her child to death about a year back.

Mrcaramelchoc · 21-05-2018 01:32PM

Mrsmum wrote: »

To be perfectly frank, I'm sure the only reason any of us would rather he was alive is for the sole reason to make him cough up re her whereabouts.

Absolutely!! Its the only reason.

21-05-2018 01:34PM

its crazy I remember years ago reading about how in the middle ages, superstitious folk would make up stories of woodland demons and warewolves etc, in order to understand this type of behavior.

A family may come back from church one day in a rural or maybe even town land and happen upon a mutilated persons body..such was the horror that they'd invent such phantoms so as not to deal with or face the obvious...a pure psychopath!! sometimes the reality is much more horrendous, like as some indicate, another child!!!

Underground · 21-05-2018 01:34PM

For anyone arriving late to this thread like myself, I, Like a fool, got a cup of tea and trawled through the first 40 odd pages of it.

Much of the 40 pages is taken up by armchair detectives criticising the Garda.

Jesus. Fcucking. Christ.

alchemist33 · 21-05-2018 01:35PM

wexie wrote: »

Be great if we (the consumers of meedja) could convince them (the meedja) perhaps they should put more importance on being right rather than being first

I wish. Unfortunately many of the consumers want information NOW, as shown on boards whenever there's a mass killing somewhere. It seems to take precedence over letting police do police work

wellwhynot · 21-05-2018 01:37PM

Of course women do commit some heinous crimes but the majority violent crimes are committed by men and it is a very large majority. It is not all men and no one is saying it is. It is not you or your sons or your friends but it is terrifying to think there are seemingly ordinary men like Mark Hennessy in our midst.

HeidiHeidi · 21-05-2018 01:38PM

It's not only the meeja who need to be first, at whatever cost to accuracy or the truth.

There's a headlong rush on here as well to be the first with whatever snippet posters have garnered from wherever, regardless of how sure (or not) they are of its truth.

It's all a bit pathetic really. And bordering on dangerous sometimes.

21-05-2018 01:46PM

OscarBluth wrote: »

In the last week, we've had a first year student sexually assaulted and murdered, possibly by someone close in age to her, and a 24 year old abducted by someone with a 'sexual motive' according to the gardai. I don't see what's wrong with investigating how we're raising the men who do this and wondering if there's some way we're failing boys and men.

Do you know what, this gender stuff is balderdash, poppycock, whatever you wanna call it. Are we failing our mothers here. Ya know, the ones that kill their babies and are then unfit to face trial? Is that on us? Fact of the matter is, we have sick people of both genders who commit heinous acts. Singling out one over the other is maddening. Blaming porn is like blaming computer games in the 90's and video nasties in the 80's. For as long as there has been people, there has been people killing people.

Raging_Ninja · 21-05-2018 01:47PM

chicorytip wrote: »

This is nonsense. He is holding a knife as opposed to a high powered firearm. The garda response was disproportionate.

There is a video online which shows a single knife-armed man confronting 4 armed policemen in Honduras. He managed to stab all 4, killing one of them before be is eventually put down. I won't link it as it is very graphic.

Similarly there is the knife attack on Houses of Parliament last year in which the policeman was murdered.

In one of the tube station attacks in the UK, you can see the knife attacker get tazered multiple times but is not affected by it as the needles did not penetrate his clothing. All the first responding police officer could do was keep range and hope the man couldn't get close to him. Luckily there was a barrier in between him and the assailant so the assailant wasn't able to rush the policeman.

A knife-armed attacker is no joke, even if you are armed.

OscarBluth · 21-05-2018 01:52PM

Omackeral wrote: »

Do you know what, this gender stuff is balderdash, poppycock, whatever you wanna call it. Are we failing our mothers here. Ya know, the ones that kill their babies and are then unfit to face trial? Is that on us? Fact of the matter is, we have sick people of both genders who commit heinous acts. Singling out one over the other is maddening. Blaming porn is like blaming computer games in the 90's and video nasties in the 80's. For as long as there has been people, there has been people killing people.

Well - yes, generally speaking, we are. If a woman kills an infant, it is (statistically) most likely to be linked to postpartum depression or psychosis. There is an article today saying young mothers are committing suicide at previously unheard of levels in poorer communities. We've cut services to those communities, and to new mothers, substantially since the austerity cuts - if there's a link there, it should be investigated.

People will always commit murder, and they'll always commit suicide, but its about what is going on behind the scenes. Decent mental health services can reduce suicide rates. If that's not happening, yes as a society we should look at why. If there's evidence something else is behind it, yes we should look at why.

So what does the evidence say about sexually driven violence against women? Because that occurs at a vastly higher level than sexual violence against men (and even when that happens, the perpetrators are usually male) and higher than women killing their children. So just as we should respond to cases where women kill their children, we should look to respond to cases of violence like this, using all the evidence at our disposal.

Pretzill · 21-05-2018 01:56PM

If no-one had noticed this girl in distress being bundled into a car (and got a partial reg) that cruel bastard would probably be back home now and nobody would suspect him at all. It's scary to think people like this live among us. One less now.

I do hope she is found alive.

Ash.J.Williams · 21-05-2018 01:57PM

OscarBluth wrote: »

Well - yes, generally speaking, we are. If a woman kills an infant, it is (statistically) most likely to be linked to postpartum depression or psychosis. There is an article today saying young mothers are committing suicide at previously unheard of levels in poorer communities. We've cut services to those communities, and to new mothers, substantially since the austerity cuts - if there's a link there, it should be investigated.

People will always commit murder, and they'll always commit suicide, but its about what is going on behind the scenes. Decent mental health services can reduce suicide rates. If that's not happening, yes as a society we should look at why. If there's evidence something else is behind it, yes we should look at why.

So what does the evidence say about sexually driven violence against women? Because that occurs at a vastly higher level than sexual violence against men (and even when that happens, the perpetrators are usually male) and higher than women killing their children. So just as we should respond to cases where women kill their children, we should look to respond to cases of violence like this, using all the evidence at our disposal.

Rapists gonna rape

wellwhynot · 21-05-2018 01:58PM

Omackeral wrote: »

Do you know what, this gender stuff is balderdash, poppycock, whatever you wanna call it. Are we failing our mothers here. Ya know, the ones that kill their babies and are then unfit to face trial? Is that on us? Fact of the matter is, we have sick people of both genders who commit heinous acts. Singling out one over the other is maddening. Blaming porn is like blaming computer games in the 90's and video nasties in the 80's. For as long as there has been people, there has been people killing people.

Actually statistically Oscar is correct. The vast majority of violent crimes are by males. Be it male to male or male to female violence. In the Uk of 1.2 million violent crimes reported 1 million were carried out by males. The FBI did a study in the US and found 98.8% of rapes were carried out by men.

languagenerd · 21-05-2018 02:03PM

alchemist33 wrote: »

I wish. Unfortunately many of the consumers want information NOW, as shown on boards whenever there's a mass killing somewhere. It seems to take precedence over letting police do police work

It's a bit of a catch-22 - if news outlets publish early, they risk being wrong; if they wait an hour, people complain it's "poor service" (as we saw on this thread) or turn to the social media rumour-mill that then has time to run wild. If journalists address the Twitter rumours, even if they say "unconfirmed reports", then they're giving them currency and spreading the further; if they don't, the rumours go unchecked and some people think the news outlet is behind the times or deliberately covering something up. That's not to defend the outlets who got it completely wrong last night - it's totally irresponsible to go with something like that. But it is a fine balance, and I think the media race to be first and the consumer demand for instant info feed each other.

25 years ago, we'd have had to wait for the next news bulletin or the next day's newspaper for the full story. Radio could break it first, but no-one expected even half as much info as they do now. Even with really important stories, ones that would warrant interrupting scheduled TV or radio shows, news teams could take a few minutes to get their info together first. Authorities could wait a while for the investigation to progress before issuing press releases. Now we have 24hr news channels and millions of people spreading truth, lies and errors on Twitter in real-time. I'm not sure if this is progress...

OscarBluth · 21-05-2018 02:04PM

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Rapists gonna rape

But what makes a rapist? There was a study a number of years ago that showed that in South Africa, 10% of men ADMITTED to having raped a woman - it was a self-reporting study that was totally anonymous. The assumption, if I remember rightly, was that the levels of conflict in South Africa were a huge factor in this. The same applies with soldiers in war zones - lots of sex offences committed by soldiers who realistically, if they hadn't gone to war, would probably have never offended. And in post-conflict societies, it carries on for generations.

The attitudes that lead to this behaviour aren't innate. Something goes wrong - either with individuals, or with society. And when tragic things happen, we have to ask what it takes for us to look at our society and say this is a huge problem, what can we do to address it. Acting like its somehow victimising men to ask the question is a weak response. A tiny proportion of men are involved in this behaviour: but are we going to ignore it because they're male? Or because they're a tiny proportion? It makes no sense.

VainHard Bendix · 21-05-2018 02:05PM

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

There is a video online which shows a single knife-armed man confronting 4 armed policemen in Honduras. He managed to stab all 4, killing one of them before be is eventually put down. I won't link it as it is very graphic.

Similarly there is the knife attack on Houses of Parliament last year in which the policeman was murdered.

In one of the tube station attacks in the UK, you can see the knife attacker get tazered multiple times but is not affected by it as the needles did not penetrate his clothing. All the first responding police officer could do was keep range and hope the man couldn't get close to him. Luckily there was a barrier in between him and the assailant so the assailant wasn't able to rush the policeman.

A knife-armed attacker is no joke, even if you are armed.

I think you are 100% right about the dangers of knife in close combat/contact.

However that doesn't really apply to the situation we have here. The Garda didn't feel himself in danger and wasn't in close proximity to the knife man.
He believed he saw two heads in the jeep and saw the knife. Believing the victim about to be stabbed he fired to preserve her life. Now it transpires that there was only one person in the car. However if the Garda genuinely believed he saw two and believed a life was in danger then he was professionally and ethically obliged to fire.

There will be a lot of focus on the Garda's actions and of course a GSOC investigation. I think his actions will be upheld. I think the public for the most part are/will be supportive of that.

pah · 21-05-2018 02:12PM

VainHard Bendix wrote: »

I think you are 100% right about the dangers of knife in close combat/contact.

However that doesn't really apply to the situation we have here. The Garda didn't feel himself in danger and wasn't in close proximity to the knife man.
He believed he saw two heads in the jeep and saw the knife. Believing the victim about to be stabbed he fired to preserve her life. Now it transpires that there was only one person in the car. However if the Garda genuinely believed he saw two and believed a life was in danger then he was professionally and ethically obliged to fire.

There will be a lot of focus on the Garda's actions and of course a GSOC investigation. I think his actions will be upheld. I think the public for the most part are/will be supportive of that.

Another poster who was actually at the scene!!! Fill is in on the rest will ya

Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

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