The Dilemma of the Undecideds in the abortion referendum

brianhere · 19-05-2018 11:01pm #1

One noticeable thing about the opinion polls leading into the last few weeks of this referendum is the remaining large number of don't knows. Without getting too technical, it appears to this observer that the swing that occurred towards the No side in the last few weeks came from straight Yes's to Nos, rather than shrinking the undecideds.

So why are there so many undecideds? I think maybe there are two answers here:

1) Possibly there are some who have secretly made up their mind but don't wish to talk about it. Maybe some poor guy in a house full of aggressive feminists who wants to vote No would prefer not to say so, and of course in some parts of the country it could work the other way too.

2) Its obvious that there is a massive media bias towards Yes and this has been played out over the months leading to the vote, if not years. But in the last few weeks we have had some debates where both sides had equal time, and its clear too that some newspapers, like The Irish Times, have felt the need to be more balanced in their coverage over the last few weeks than they normally are.

This has possibly led to a pattern that some were sure they were Yes, based on the earlier biased information they had received, and are now not so sure when they now can hear from the other side.

So that also might be swelling the undecideds. Anyway I am sure there are strong opinions on the subject on this site but in any case it might be interesting to see what information both sides are putting out to influence the undecideds. This for example is an appeal to them from the No side: http://www.politics.ie/forum/elections/263893-manifesto-undecideds.html and if anybody knows of a comparable text from the Yes side maybe they could note it below.

oscarBravo · 19-05-2018 11:50pm

brianhere wrote: »

Its obvious that there is a massive media bias towards Yes...

That's not at all obvious to me.

nw1dqsv7amx026 · 20-05-2018 12:20am

oscarBravo wrote: »

That's not at all obvious to me.

Irrespective of your opinions on the actual referendum, how can you not see a bias in the media? Check any day and there will be at least 5 articles sympathetic to repeal and maybe one token article against.
Its really shocking to me, the lack of balance.

As to this post, I've been wondering the same. I haven't come across a single person who volunteers an opinion for no. I suspect people are afraid to venture this opinion.
I suspect the undecided may actually have decided and don't want to say.

dublinbuster · 20-05-2018 2:32am

brianhere wrote: »

One noticeable thing about the opinion polls leading into the last few weeks of this referendum is the remaining large number of don't knows.

they are NO voters!
the media has pushed a yes vote HARD
the silent majority think differently
juts tonight i had yes campaigners call to the door, i smiled agreed with them and sent them on the way, dont need the aggro
i will be voting no

endacl · 20-05-2018 2:33am

oscarBravo wrote: »

That's not at all obvious to me.

Biases are obvious. They're always the opposite of what one wants.

Hitman3000 · 20-05-2018 2:42am

I don't have a uterus so I'm grand, unless it's possible that I get pregnant.

Snotty · 20-05-2018 2:44am

Media are hugely bias towards a "Yes" and I am getting very sick of it and not just on this topic, it's being spoke down to every topic with their liberal agenda. The media used to have an ethical code of presenting both sides and then just an editorial that may have given opinion, every piece now is an editorial.

I would have been in the yes camp but not I'm not so sure. I'm not saying the debates have swayed me, but some of the yes arguments are terrible and there's almost a "vote yes because we say so, that's why" feel to their campaign.
I honestly think neither answer is right and that might mean a No vote from me, but my wife is pushing the debate to me, so I'll digest on it more.

Hitman3000 · 20-05-2018 3:00am

Snotty wrote:

I would have been in the yes camp but not I'm not so sure. I'm not saying the debates have swayed me, but some of the yes arguments are terrible and there's almost a "vote yes because we say so, that's why" feel to their campaign. I honestly think neither answer is right and that might mean a No vote from me, but my wife is pushing the debate to me, so I'll digest on it more.

Just a question but will yourself ever experience a crisis pregnancy? Do you want a stranger deciding the laws applicable to your body. Vote how you want but but don't pretend to fight with you conscience.

Noo · 20-05-2018 4:04am

Snotty wrote: »

Media are hugely bias towards a "Yes" and I am getting very sick of it and not just on this topic, it's being spoke down to every topic with their liberal agenda. The media used to have an ethical code of presenting both sides and then just an editorial that may have given opinion, every piece now is an editorial.

I would have been in the yes camp but not I'm not so sure. I'm not saying the debates have swayed me, but some of the yes arguments are terrible and there's almost a "vote yes because we say so, that's why" feel to their campaign.
I honestly think neither answer is right and that might mean a No vote from me, but my wife is pushing the debate to me, so I'll digest on it more.

Please for the love of god don't vote no just because youre fed up with the yes campaign and want to stick it to them. You're a grown man.

You have the choice to vote yes or no. I believe if you are on the fence then you should afford that choice to others and get it passed. Someday your wife may thank you.

ancapailldorcha · 20-05-2018 8:50am

Mod: Nonsense deleted. Serious discussion only please.

Fr Tod Umptious · 20-05-2018 9:03am

There are so many undecided because it's such a grey area.

Personally speaking I hate the idea of abortion, it's repulsive to me.
I hate left leaning politics and politicans so to vote Yes I'd be agreeing with the likes of Coppenger and SF.

But at the same time, do I have the right to decide what happens to each and every pregnancy in this country by outright banning abortion ?

If a daughter of mine, and I have two, found themselves in a cricis pregnancy what would I do, what would be best for them ?

I'm totally undecided.

But nationally I think there will be a swing to the No close to the end, enough to win I'm not sure.

blanch152 · 20-05-2018 9:03am

I haven't seen the opinion polls this morning so I don't know what they are showing but if anything, I have seen a solidifying of the YES vote in the last week.

The antics of the pro-life audience on the Claire Byrne show have opened people's eyes to the nature of the NO campaign. The whooping and hollering everytime their person scored a point was deeply disturbing, as if they were watching a football match rather than a public debate over a serious issue. It was as if the issue itself meant nothing, just the win or lose.

This was still resonating with people even yesterday in discussions. The strident tones and hard language have exposed the lack of empathy for what is a deeply complicated situation that many women find themselves in. I now expect the YES vote to be over 55% next weekend, and possibly hitting 60%.

Blazer · 20-05-2018 9:05am

Snotty wrote: »

I would have been in the yes camp but not I'm not so sure. I'm not saying the debates have swayed me, but some of the yes arguments are terrible and there's almost a "vote yes because we say so, that's why" feel to their campaign.
.

I can’t imagine what you think of the NO arguments then as most of them are complete lies and proven so.

Fr Tod Umptious · 20-05-2018 9:08am

Both sides by the way think the outer side are the ones with the lies and the dirty tricks, and the antics.

Fann Linn · 20-05-2018 9:10am

Jaylee Glamorous Sirloin wrote: »

Irrespective of your opinions on the actual referendum, how can you not see a bias in the media? Check any day and there will be at least 5 articles sympathetic to repeal and maybe one token article against.
Its really shocking to me, the lack of balance.

As to this post, I've been wondering the same. I haven't come across a single person who volunteers an opinion for no. I suspect people are afraid to venture this opinion.
I suspect the undecided may actually have decided and don't want to say.

Thats me. I can't be arsed debating on the street or doorstep so I agree with both sides there.
I do know however where my X is going next week.

marvin80 · 20-05-2018 9:14am

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

If a daughter of mine, and I have two, found themselves in a cricis pregnancy what would I do, what would be best for them ?

Women across Ireland find themselves in this situation everyday and at the moment they cannot get the medical help required in Ireland - they should have the choice available to them in Ireland.

Regarding the undecided it's not surprising to see big numbers - it's such an important and emotional referendum and there's a lot of information coming out from both sides.

Fr Tod Umptious · 20-05-2018 9:16am

marvin80 wrote: »

Women across Ireland find themselves in this situation everyday and at the moment they cannot get the medical help required in Ireland - they should have the choice available to them in Ireland.

Regarding the undecided it's not surprising to see big numbers - it's such an important and emotional referendum and there's a lot of information coming out from both sides.

Thanks, but I'm not here to get canvased by any side.

Nomis21 · 20-05-2018 9:19am

In the unlikely event that the NO vote wins, it would only in any case be a matter of time before the 8th was overturned either by the European court of Human Rights, by changes in the demographic of the population or the Church being involved in yet more scandal.

Fann Linn · 20-05-2018 9:21am

Nomis21 wrote: »

In the unlikely event that the NO vote wins, it would only in any case be a matter of time before the 8th was overturned either by the European court of Human Rights, by changes in the demographic of the population or the Church being involved in yet more scandal.

Covering all bets now by the looks of things.

lawred2 · 20-05-2018 9:22am

Snotty wrote: »

Media are hugely bias towards a "Yes" and I am getting very sick of it and not just on this topic, it's being spoke down to every topic with their liberal agenda. The media used to have an ethical code of presenting both sides and then just an editorial that may have given opinion, every piece now is an editorial.

I would have been in the yes camp but not I'm not so sure. I'm not saying the debates have swayed me, but some of the yes arguments are terrible and there's almost a "vote yes because we say so, that's why" feel to their campaign.
I honestly think neither answer is right and that might mean a No vote from me, but my wife is pushing the debate to me, so I'll digest on it more.

It's 'de liburul meeja' single transferable post

There was no era of balanced journalism. That's a fallacy. Media outlets were always a mouthpiece for an owner's agenda or a group's agenda.

Out of interest, when was this era where this ethical code of presenting both sides that you seem to think existed?

I'd like to see examples of such balance from Ireland's earlier abortion referenda!

lawred2 · 20-05-2018 9:29am

Noo wrote: »

Snotty wrote: »

Media are hugely bias towards a "Yes" and I am getting very sick of it and not just on this topic, it's being spoke down to every topic with their liberal agenda. The media used to have an ethical code of presenting both sides and then just an editorial that may have given opinion, every piece now is an editorial.

I would have been in the yes camp but not I'm not so sure. I'm not saying the debates have swayed me, but some of the yes arguments are terrible and there's almost a "vote yes because we say so, that's why" feel to their campaign.
I honestly think neither answer is right and that might mean a No vote from me, but my wife is pushing the debate to me, so I'll digest on it more.

Please for the love of god don't vote no just because youre fed up with the yes campaign and want to stick it to them. You're a grown man.

You have the choice to vote yes or no. I believe if you are on the fence then you should afford that choice to others and get it passed. Someday your wife may thank you.

My backside was that person ever a yes voter. That's a well overused trope.

I was an x voter but y and y's behaviour has convinced me to vote the other way..

Bulls!!t

lufties · 20-05-2018 9:32am

Snotty wrote: »

Media are hugely bias towards a "Yes" and I am getting very sick of it and not just on this topic, it's being spoke down to every topic with their liberal agenda. The media used to have an ethical code of presenting both sides and then just an editorial that may have given opinion, every piece now is an editorial.

I would have been in the yes camp but not I'm not so sure. I'm not saying the debates have swayed me, but some of the yes arguments are terrible and there's almost a "vote yes because we say so, that's why" feel to their campaign.
I honestly think neither answer is right and that might mean a No vote from me, but my wife is pushing the debate to me, so I'll digest on it more.

Its becoming like Orwell's 1984. If you are anyway conservative, its seen as bigotry. Have you watched tubridy ramp up the liberal propaganda week in week out? There's also an anti male agenda. I wonder who is driving this. I personally think there's a plot to turn men into weak betas, in order to have more control on the populace. It is not natural for men to be bashed constantly as being 'wrong' about everything. Women on the other hand can do no wrong, and are considered shrinking violence.
My philosophy is very simple, what the government wants, vote or think the exact opposite is in your interest.

Nekarsulm · 20-05-2018 9:36am

I don't believe there are anywhere near 20% undecided. 5% possibly.
By this stage almost everyone knows how they will vote.
They could have ran the referendum 2 weeks ago and everyone knew in their own mind how they would vote.
As another poster noted, to avoid argument and upset people just say "I haven't decided yet" .

listermint · 20-05-2018 9:38am

lufties wrote: »

Its becoming like Orwell's 1984. If you are anyway conservative, its seen as bigotry. Have you watched tubridy ramp up the liberal propaganda week in week out? There's also an anti male agenda. I wonder who is driving this. I personally think there's a plot to turn men into weak betas, in order to have more control on the populace. It is not natural for men to be bashed constantly as being 'wrong' about everything. Women on the other hand can do no wrong, and are considered shrinking violence.
My philosophy is very simple, what the government wants, vote or think the exact opposite is in your interest.

Hilarious.

You've managed to hit all the ridiculous points in one paragraph about pretty much any subject that is raised today's .

Liberals.

Media.

Bias.

Anti men.

Grow up will ya. Some people are too precious ,everyone else well they are just getting on with her daily lives. The biggest problem we have today is we now get to hear the precious folks opinions all the time.

lawred2 · 20-05-2018 9:41am

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

There are so many undecided because it's such a grey area.

Personally speaking I hate the idea of abortion, it's repulsive to me.
I hate left leaning politics and politicans so to vote Yes I'd be agreeing with the likes of Coppenger and SF.

But at the same time, do I have the right to decide what happens to each and every pregnancy in this country by outright banning abortion ?

If a daughter of mine, and I have two, found themselves in a cricis pregnancy what would I do, what would be best for them ?

I'm totally undecided.

But nationally I think there will be a swing to the No close to the end, enough to win I'm not sure.

I dislike what abortion is and indeed I find that some of the justifications for abortion leave a very sour taste in my mouth. But it is not for me to pass judgement on what someone else sees at their time of need as something they have to do.

I have three lovely children born in a loving marriage at a time for the both of us where we were financially sound enough to provide for them.

Not every child is so lucky.

In fact, my wife is in the Rotunda with our third right now. She's not yet 72 hours old.

But every day I walk through those doors of the hospital through a pall of smoke expelled by expectant mothers. It's only one snapshot of the life that's in store for many of those kids.. can't imagine that that's the only way that those kids will be left down by their parents.. One would wonder how precious life is to some people.

lufties · 20-05-2018 9:43am

listermint wrote: »

lufties wrote: »

Its becoming like Orwell's 1984. If you are anyway conservative, its seen as bigotry. Have you watched tubridy ramp up the liberal propaganda week in week out? There's also an anti male agenda. I wonder who is driving this. I personally think there's a plot to turn men into weak betas, in order to have more control on the populace. It is not natural for men to be bashed constantly as being 'wrong' about everything. Women on the other hand can do no wrong, and are considered shrinking violence.
My philosophy is very simple, what the government wants, vote or think the exact opposite is in your interest.

Hilarious.

You've managed to hit all the ridiculous points in one paragraph about pretty much any subject that is raised today's .

Liberals.

Media.

Bias.

Anti men.

Grow up will ya. Some people are too precious ,everyone else well they are just getting on with her daily lives. The biggest problem we have today is we now get to hear the precious folks opinions all the time.

Thank you for proving my point.

lawred2 · 20-05-2018 9:46am

Nekarsulm wrote: »

I don't believe there are anywhere near 20% undecided. 5% possibly.
By this stage almost everyone knows how they will vote.
They could have ran the referendum 2 weeks ago and everyone knew in their own mind how they would vote.
As another poster noted, to avoid argument and upset people just say "I haven't decided yet" .

They are in the main no voters.

Guy:Incognito · 20-05-2018 9:48am

Blazer wrote: »

I can’t imagine what you think of the NO arguments then as most of them are complete lies and proven so.

I can't see how anyone could seriously come out and say the yes side have pushed them to no with their opinions. Unless they've completely blanked out the whole no side, because there's clear and obvious evidence as to whixh side is using a dirty campaign. You're an evil murderer, look at these pictures, dirty sluts etc , you're going to hell vs women are suffering, give them the option to do what they believe is best for their cicumstances, of which you don't know and are not involved.

Personally I can't understand why people would want to insert themselves in the life decisions of people they don't know and I'd be fairly sure in different circumstances they wouldn't appreciate their choices being dictated by others either. It boils down to a simple, let people decide what's best for the situation they find themselves in. No grey area.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 20-05-2018 9:51am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I can't see how anyone could seriously come out and say the yes side have pushed them to no with their opinions. Unless they've completely blanked out the whole no side, because there's clear and obvious evidence as to whixh side is using a dirty campaign. You're an evil murderer, look at these pictures, dirty sluts etc , you're going to hell vs women are suffering, give them the option to do what they believe is best for their cicumstances, of which you don't know and are not involved.

Personally I can't understand why people would want to insert themselves in the life decisions of people they don't know and I'd be fairly sure in different circumstances they wouldn't appreciate their choices being dictated by others either. It boils down to a simple, let people decide what's best for the situation they find themselves in. No grey area.

A very high percentages of laws are about dictating what other people can do and where, from drug laws to licensing laws, prostitution laws, smoking laws, drink driving laws and on and on.

That’s not a very good argument.

Guy:Incognito · 20-05-2018 9:54am

lufties wrote: »

.
My philosophy is very simple, what the government wants, vote or think the exact opposite is in your interest.

The government were out there by getting the required votes from the people.

What happens if the politicians you vote for become the government? You're automatically now against them? If you're gay, you'd have voted no in the marriage equality referendum presumably? There's a phrase for that.............

And in this case it's basically "**** how it'll affect actual people's lives, at least I didn't agree with the government" that's ridiculous and a big advertisement for why us needing to have a referendum to do anything g of note in this country is harming people.

lufties · 20-05-2018 9:54am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Blazer wrote: »

I can’t imagine what you think of the NO arguments then as most of them are complete lies and proven so.

I can't see how anyone could seriously come out and say the yes side have pushed them to no with their opinions. Unless they've completely blanked out the whole no side, because there's clear and obvious evidence as to whixh side is using a dirty campaign. You're an evil murderer, look at these pictures, dirty sluts etc , you're going to hell vs women are suffering, give them the option to do what they believe is best for their cicumstances, of which you don't know and are not involved.

Personally I can't understand why people would want to insert themselves in the life decisions of people they don't know and I'd be fairly sure in different circumstances they wouldn't appreciate their choices being dictated by others either. It boils down to a simple, let people decide what's best for the situation they find themselves in. No grey area.

Ever read the journal.ie? I used to think it was an actual news site years ago. They publish 4 or 5 yes articles a day. A recent one was about 'toxic masculinity'. The bias and outright agenda promoting is something Stalins Russia would have been proud of.
In fact I'll bet in other rags like the independent, and Irish times its the same crap.

ancapailldorcha · 20-05-2018 9:59am

lufties wrote: »

Ever read the journal.ie? I used to think it was an actual news site years ago. They publish 4 or 5 yes articles a day. A recent one was about 'toxic masculinity'. The bias and outright agenda promoting is something Stalins Russia would have been proud of.
In fact I'll bet in other rags like the independent, and Irish times its the same crap.

Stay on topic please. This thread is about undecided voters in the abortion referendum.

Guy:Incognito · 20-05-2018 9:59am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

A very high percentages of laws are about dictating what other people can do and where, from drug laws to licensing laws, prostitution laws, smoking laws, drink driving laws and on and on.

That’s not a very good argument.

And all the shift in most societies is towards liberaliseing drug laws. The smoking ban is there to protect the other people around you. If smoking was completely harmless to people other than the smoker, no one would care. Drink driving is similar. Its for the greater good of the people you very may well hit. Get locked and drive around your private property all you like.

Prostitution, like many other things, should be an issue between the prostitute and customer. No need for the law unless someone is being forced , which again comes back to protecting the innocent.

In short, make you're own decisions with regard to yourself, but if I'm standing on the street and what you're doing may kill or injure me, regulation is needed.

P_1 · 20-05-2018 10:00am

Snotty wrote: »

Media are hugely bias towards a "Yes" and I am getting very sick of it and not just on this topic, it's being spoke down to every topic with their liberal agenda. The media used to have an ethical code of presenting both sides and then just an editorial that may have given opinion, every piece now is an editorial.

I would have been in the yes camp but not I'm not so sure. I'm not saying the debates have swayed me, but some of the yes arguments are terrible and there's almost a "vote yes because we say so, that's why" feel to their campaign.
I honestly think neither answer is right and that might mean a No vote from me, but my wife is pushing the debate to me, so I'll digest on it more.

I have to agree with the bolded. Full disclosure, I'm a yes, and a vocal yes voter but the campaign has been an absolute shambles in my eyes. It's almost as if the decision was taken to be more low key, dare I say it, vanilla for fear of playing to the stereotype of the radical, blue haired feminist. Sadly this means no solid arguments are made and some of the more, lacking in logic, arguments of the no side aren't challenged in the mainstream for fear of coming across badly. It's bland, boring consensus campaigning and I fear it may cost us a yes result.

Guy:Incognito · 20-05-2018 10:02am

P_1 wrote: »

. Sadly this means no solid arguments are made t.

Only one is needed. You look after you, and give others the choice to do the same.regardless of your beliefs, don't take away others ability to make their own choices.

lawred2 · 20-05-2018 10:05am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

P_1 wrote: »

. Sadly this means no solid arguments are made t.

Only one is needed. You look after you, and give others the choice to do the same.regardless of your beliefs, don't take away others ability to make their own choices.

If only it were that simple.. conservative types are always very worried about what others are doing.

P_1 · 20-05-2018 10:05am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Only one is needed. You look after you, and give others the choice to do the same.regardless of your beliefs, don't take away others ability to make their own choices.

In a lifetime of trying I would never have come up with something as simple, concise and elegant as that. I doff my cap

Franz Von Peppercorn · 20-05-2018 10:08am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

And all the shift in most societies is towards liberaliseing drug laws. The smoking ban is there to protect the other people around you. If smoking was completely harmless to people other than the smoker, no one would care. Drink driving is similar. Its for the greater good of the people you very may well hit. Get locked and drive around your private property all you like.

Prostitution, like many other things, should be an issue between the prostitute and customer. No need for the law unless someone is being forced , which again comes back to protecting the innocent.

In short, make you're own decisions with regard to yourself, but if I'm standing on the street and what you're doing may kill or injure me, regulation is needed.

What about the sugar tax?

And anti abortion people think there’s a second injured party in abortion.

Actually most probably do with regards to late term abortions. Which is why your argument leaves me cold, as does the hands of my uterus arguments, although I’d be in favour of up to 12 week termination.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 20-05-2018 10:10am

P_1 wrote: »

In a lifetime of trying I would never have come up with something as simple, concise and elegant as that. I doff my cap

Except it ignores the other party in abortion debates, and that society does place restrictions on what people do with their body, or money all the time.

Guy:Incognito · 20-05-2018 10:15am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

And anti abortion people think there’s a second injured party in abortion.

Actually most probably do with regards to late term abortions. Which is why your argument leaves me cold, as does the hands of my uterus arguments, although I’d be in favour of up to 12 week termination.

But it all circles back to letting the people actually involved in the situation decide for themselves who or what parties are involved. Jim in South cork shouldn't have any input in my life anymore than I should or would want to have in his.

Do you genuinely believe, even if it was an option which it wouldn't be, that any sound thinking woman would just decide, for no reason , after being pregnant for 8 months " do you know what, I don't fancy this anymore, think I'll have an abortion"? Is that how you think the women in your life think( from that you can extrapolate for the rest of the women in the country )? No one is even asking for a law that would allow that anyway and there's no evidence to say anyone would use it even if it was.

lawred2 · 20-05-2018 10:17am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

P_1 wrote: »

In a lifetime of trying I would never have come up with something as simple, concise and elegant as that. I doff my cap

Except it ignores the other party in abortion debates, and that society does place restrictions on what people do with their body, or money all the time.

How does it ignore the other party?

If they don't want abortions they are free to make that decision to not have abortions..

salmocab · 20-05-2018 10:33am

P_1 wrote: »

I have to agree with the bolded. Full disclosure, I'm a yes, and a vocal yes voter but the campaign has been an absolute shambles in my eyes. It's almost as if the decision was taken to be more low key, dare I say it, vanilla for fear of playing to the stereotype of the radical, blue haired feminist. Sadly this means no solid arguments are made and some of the more, lacking in logic, arguments of the no side aren't challenged in the mainstream for fear of coming across badly. It's bland, boring consensus campaigning and I fear it may cost us a yes result.

I think YES may be falling into the brexit camp of of course we’re going to win so don’t need to go the extra yard.

guestwifi · 20-05-2018 10:41am

I was truly an undecided until I sat down last Monday night to watch the Claire Byrne Live special.

I'll be voting No this Friday.

Guy:Incognito · 20-05-2018 10:50am

guestwifi wrote: »

.

I'll be voting No this Friday.

Why?

guestwifi · 20-05-2018 10:58am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why?

I found the No side raised issues that I hadn't considered before, both the on stage panel and some of the doctors in the audience. On their suggestion I tried to read the actual framework document that will form the basis of the legislation if passed, I'm not one for legal documents but it seems most of what they claim is in there is actually in there.

I did my best to leave emotion out of it and tried to disregard anyone using emotional arguments, from both sides, both seemed guilty of it.

And I don't think it held any sway in my decision, at least I hope not and I will continue to reflect on it, but I found some of the Yes contributors to be obnoxious, Brid Smith for example, all too ready to drag the debate into the mud.

Unless something drastic happens in the meantime I will be voting No. To be honest though, I've had enough of this referendum now, not sure how much more I'll be interacting with it aside from casting my vote.

Hitman3000 · 20-05-2018 11:02am

I'm voting yes but when asked I just say I haven't decided. I don't want anyone annoying me about it.

zell12 · 20-05-2018 11:06am

Foreigners telling us to vote YES
http://connachttribune.ie/parents-of-savita-halappanavar-urge-people-to-vote-yes-to-repeal-the-8th/

Does the NO side do similar?

Ash.J.Williams · 20-05-2018 11:08am

zell12 wrote: »

Foreigners telling us to vote YES
http://connachttribune.ie/parents-of-savita-halappanavar-urge-people-to-vote-yes-to-repeal-the-8th/

Does the NO side do similar?

Of course...

Balls... I actually opened your link after and realised you're a racist

Guy:Incognito · 20-05-2018 11:12am

guestwifi wrote: »

I found the No side raised issues that I hadn't considered before, both the on stage panel and some of the doctors in the audience. On their suggestion I tried to read the actual framework document that will form the basis of the legislation if passed, I'm not one for legal documents but it seems most of what they claim is in there is actually in there.

I did my best to leave emotion out of it and tried to disregard anyone using emotional arguments, from both sides, both seemed guilty of it.

And I don't think it held any sway in my decision, at least I hope not and I will continue to reflect on it, but I found some of the Yes contributors to be obnoxious, Brid Smith for example, all too ready to drag the debate into the mud.

Unless something drastic happens in the meantime I will be voting No. To be honest though, I've had enough of this referendum now, not sure how much more I'll be interacting with it aside from casting my vote.

You will always find a group in any profession that will be on the no side. What about all the doctors on the yes side? Including very high level ones running hospitals.

Will it affect you if a yes vote is passed? It's that simple for me. A no vote imposes the opinions and will of one group on the other. A yes vote allows people to decide what's best of themselves.

I've yet to come across a no argument that held up for me. Lots of scaremongering is all it is.its all about forcing others to live their lives by your rules.

It's like the marriage equality referendum. When you drill down, there's no reason to oppose it, if it passes , your life stay the same. Whether you are the biggest homophobe in the world, 2 people you don't know of the same sex being married has no bearing on your life. This has been borne out by the complete lack of any of the scaremongering coming true and the whole host of "issues" people had being completely forgotten once evidemce proved them wrong. There's no forced same sex marriage, same as there's no forced abortions, so it comes down to allowing people to make their own choices for their circumstances and not using your vote to put them throuhh unessecary suffering.

Guy:Incognito · 20-05-2018 11:15am

zell12 wrote: »

Foreigners telling us to vote YES
http://connachttribune.ie/parents-of-savita-halappanavar-urge-people-to-vote-yes-to-repeal-the-8th/

Does the NO side do similar?

Yeah, those bloody random foreigners that have never been affected by our laws just picking Ireland on the spin of a globe to give their opinion on................

Thank **** we don't have any American religious zealots trying to influence anything to do with the campaign........

guestwifi · 20-05-2018 11:21am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You will always find a group in any profession that will be on the no side. What about all the doctors on the yes side? Including very high level ones running hospitals.

True, but I found the experts on the No side to be more convincing. And I wasn't aware that Dr. Boylan's five predecessors have all taken an opposing view to him.

Will it affect you if a yes vote is passed? It's that simple for me. A no vote imposes the opinions and will of one group on the other. A yes vote allows people to decide what's best of themselves.

It may affect me, as it may affect you (depending on age I guess). And having watched the debate I'm solidly of the opinion that it's not just about the mother/couple, it's about the child too.

It's like the marriage equality referendum. When you drill down, there's no reason to oppose it, if it passes , your life stay the same. Whether you are the biggest homophobe in the world, 2 people you don't know of the same sex being married has no bearing on your life. This has been borne out by the complete lack of any of the scaremongering coming true and the whole host of "issues" people had being completely forgotten once evidemce proved them wrong. There's no forced same sex marriage, same as there's no forced abortions, so it comes down to allowing people to make their own choices for their circumstances and not using your vote to put them throuhh unessecary suffering.

The marriage referendum was about two people of the same gender, in love, being granted the same rights as two straight people to enter a contract of marriage. This referendum is about allowing the termination of life, life that has no voice to defend itself. I respect your opinion, but having watched the experts on both sides I've come to my decision.

The Dilemma of the Undecideds in the abortion referendum

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