8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

Calina · 16-05-2018 07:01PM

Logo wrote: »

Calina wrote: »

In other words you don’t agree that the 8th should be repealed.

The 8th should be repealed but not on these limited voting options.

Your option is to repeal or not. The expected legislation is delegated to the Dail and a separate matter.

Martina1991 · 16-05-2018 07:02PM

Logo wrote: »

The 8th should be repealed but not on these limited voting options.

These options or proposed legislation can change. Voting No means nothing changes.

NAGDEFI · 16-05-2018 07:02PM

Putinbot wrote: »

Mod-Robarmstrong and NAGDEFI do not post in the thread again. Reason-Ye were warned.

Rob shouldn't be banned. He didn't make those remarks.

Mod-Banned

NuMarvel · 16-05-2018 07:03PM

Logo wrote: »

The 8th should be repealed but not on these limited voting options.

What options do you want? Because referendum questions can only ever be Yes or No questions. It's not possible under the constitution to have some kind of multiple choice.

erica74 · 16-05-2018 07:04PM

gctest50 wrote: »

might give some insightt

it means a lot to women

So true.

Just her wrote: »

Could I ask pro choice advocates if the there is a point in pregnancy at which they are uncomfortable with abortion, i.e at how many weeks would they disagree with abortion, if at all. Apologies I'm sure this has been asked before but I wouldn't know where to start to find answers on the thread

I personally put absolutely no time limit on abortions. I think every woman should be able to have an abortion at any stage of her pregnancy if that is her choice, however, there comes a point in the pregnancy where a baby is delivered rather than a foetus aborted.

Lia_lia wrote: »

This has probably been brought up a few times so apologies.

I've decided I'm going to go canvassing (for Yes!) tomorrow evening and hopefully up until the end of next week. Haven't gone yet as I've been a bit scared tbh...not sure of the reaction and what kind of things I should say to people.

Who here in this thread has been out canvassing for Yes? Any tips for me? Bit terrified but I'm more terrified of a No vote so feel like I have to go out and talk to people...

I think January has a lot of knowledge on this, maybe send her a pm.

Esmeralda Inexpensive Balloonist wrote: »

and there's an opportunity to get stuff off your chest at the end.

That is such a great idea. I'd say you might feel quite weighed down by the end of your day.

Logo wrote: »

Given the lack of choice I have no option but to vote no. I totally agree that the 8th should be repealed but I will not vote yes because it will mean that after 72 hours an abortion will be allowed up to three months into pregnancy, and up to six months depending on the circumstances.

Oh the ironing.

If you are not happy with the current situation, the only way to change that is to repeal the 8th. If you do not vote yes, nothing will change.

Logo · 16-05-2018 07:05PM

Martina1991 wrote: »

I would agree with all of this.
No one wants to see anyone they know go through an abortion, but if someone reaches that decision, I do not have the right to tell a woman what to do with her life.

I think 12 weeks is an acceptable time frame for restrictions as it would provide the window for victims of rape to reach a decision without ridicule.

~24 weeks is accepted as the earliest stage of viability, so I would not like to see abortions after this stage unless there was a FFA or threat to the life of the mother.

I would suggest holding a sledgehammer during childbirth in case a threat to life?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 16-05-2018 07:06PM

Logo wrote: »

The 8th should be repealed but not on these limited voting options.

It's only proposed legislation. What you'll be voting on is to remove the 8th and constitutionally providing for the oireachteas to legislate, they could actually put in place a MORE restrictive regime than present, only allow it for FFA cases, increase the penalty for abortion. It's not limited long term.

You're not voting on what abortion laws will be in place next year or in five years. If you haven't, i'd encourage you to read the citizens assembly and oireachteas committee reports on how and why they arrived at the PROPOSED legislation they did.

If you think the 8th should be repealed then vote to repeal it, give our legislators and voters the freedom to draft and enact laws in this area without the millstone of the 8th.

Logo · 16-05-2018 07:16PM

Esmeralda Inexpensive Balloonist wrote: »

It's only proposed legislation. What you'll be voting on is to remove the 8th and constitutionally providing for the oireachteas to legislate, they could actually put in place a MORE restrictive regime than present, only allow it for FFA cases, increase the penalty for abortion. It's not limited long term.

You're not voting on what abortion laws will be in place next year or in five years. If you haven't, i'd encourage you to read the citizens assembly and oireachteas committee reports on how and why they arrived at the PROPOSED legislation they did.

If you think the 8th should be repealed then vote to repeal it, give our legislators and voters the freedom to draft and enact laws in this area without the millstone of the 8th.

That's incorrect. If we vote no then the status quo continues. If we vote yes abortion will be provided on demand up to three months and can be allowed up to six months

Just her · 16-05-2018 07:17PM

dudara wrote: »

Right now it doesn’t “mean” it. All we have is proposed heads of legislation, an outline if you will. There’s a long process to go thorough yet before we get the final legislation post-repeal.

Hoestly, if you feel the 8th should be repealed, then vote for repeal. And let’s address abortion then.

We won't get a say after this if it's repealed though. My reading of the referendum commission leaflet says that 'laws are made by the Oireachtas. You are not being asked in this referendum to vote on any particular law relating to the termination of pregnancy'. My understanding is that if the amendment is repealed, that's it, it's out of our hands for good then.

wexie · 16-05-2018 07:18PM

Just her wrote: »

We won't get a say after this if it's repealed though. My reading of the referendum commission leaflet says that 'laws are made by the Oireachtas. You are not being asked in this referendum to vote on any particular law relating to the termination of pregnancy'. My understanding is that if the amendment is repealed, that's it, it's out of our hands for good then.

You mean like with literally any other legislation?

16-05-2018 07:18PM

I don't want to start another abortion thread, this is for discussing the images and posters that is being promoted from both sides of the debate.

Regardless of what your view on abortion is, I think we can all agree it is a brutal thing to happen, not only for the woman but for the life inside of her.

Despite this, both sides of the debate want us to think that abortion is a cuddly thing, something about Love and love hearts.

The Brutal reality is that abortion is Brutal and there is nothing loving about it, any woman choosing abortion as her option would have struggled with the decision for a long time because it is a tough choice to make and not one that can be taken lightly.

Sites like Boards.ie would ban me if I posted an abortion picture, but why? Why hide from the reality of what we are being asked to vote for? Abortion isn't nice, it isn't loving, it is pleasant, its the act of using medicine or a surgical procedure to remove something from the womb.

Showing an image of an aborted baby is the harsh reality of what you are being asked to vote on, why dress it up as something loving?

Here in the above picture more censorship of the reality of abortion, what are they scared off, The Truth?

Im not going to lecture anyone on how to vote, but I don't see why the truth cant be shown, and I hate seeing these love hearts and mention of Love spread across lamposts everywhere.

dudara · 16-05-2018 07:21PM

Martina1991 wrote: »

~24 weeks is accepted as the earliest stage of viability, so I would not like to see abortions after this stage unless there was a FFA or threat to the life of the mother.

My understanding is that there will not be abortions after 24 weeks. If a pregnancy needs to be terminated post 24 weeks, it will be done through other means. Open to correction.

whiskeyman · 16-05-2018 07:21PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Despite this, both sides of the debate want us to think that abortion is a cuddly thing, something about Love and love hearts.

I don't get that from either side at all.
Not sure how you are.
The use of hearts plays into the love for the child or woman, not for the act of abortion.

gctest50 · 16-05-2018 07:23PM

Why not post up loads of childbirth videos in the Ladies Lounge ?

Why not post up loads of pictures of pancreas in the lti forum ?

dudara · 16-05-2018 07:24PM

Just her wrote: »

We won't get a say after this if it's repealed though. My reading of the referendum commission leaflet says that 'laws are made by the Oireachtas. You are not being asked in this referendum to vote on any particular law relating to the termination of pregnancy'. My understanding is that if the amendment is repealed, that's it, it's out of our hands for good then.

I would disagree. In fact I’m tired of hearing this. We have the ultimate power over our TDs. We elect them and we can influence them.

Think about it, the politician is the ultimate survival machine. They will do just about anything to keep their seat. If their electorate is telling them X, they will listen. For instance if this referendum fails, i will immediately start canvassing my TDs for a new one.

If you look at the TDs who have come out against repeal, it’s clear that there’s lots of support in the Dáil against abortion. If these guys survive the next election, you can be sure they will battle any legislation.

Logo · 16-05-2018 07:24PM

Hey I'm out. All political parties, social media and the press are for repeal. Pity.

BalcombeSt4 · 16-05-2018 07:24PM

Why don't the No side show pictures of woman giving birth to a baby with the screaming & the blood & cutting the cord?

o1s1n · 16-05-2018 07:25PM

In that case shouldnt the No sides logo maybe be something like a woman dying of septicemia due to being unable to have an abortion?

Or does the no side get a free ride because you agree with them?

16-05-2018 07:25PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't want to start another abortion thread, but i will anyway using emotive language

FYP.

16-05-2018 07:26PM

whiskeyman wrote: »

I don't get that from either side at all.
Not sure how you are.
The use of hearts plays into the love for the child or woman, not for the act of abortion.

Well the Repeal image is of a Love heart,

As for the Pro Life side, they use the words love both, surely a far more shocking image would be to show real abortion pictures with the caption, Are you really going to vote Yes for this?

fxotoole · 16-05-2018 07:26PM

Logo wrote: »

That's incorrect. If we vote no then the status quo continues. If we vote yes abortion will be provided on demand up to three months and can be allowed up to six months

No.

If you vote yes, you can lobby to have the legislation drafted in a way that doesn't allow for "abortion on demand" or abortion up to 6 months.

Lord Glentoran · 16-05-2018 07:26PM

Logo wrote: »

Hey I'm out. All political parties, social media and the press are for repeal. Pity.

Bye

sullivlo · 16-05-2018 07:28PM

gctest50 wrote: »

Why not post up loads of childbirth videos in the Ladies Lounge ?

As a mod of tLL, please don’t.

sightband · 16-05-2018 07:29PM

I never understood the ridiculous adulation for that repeal love heart cartoon like logo or image or whatever it is. Irrespective of whatever side you are on, its a sh*t logo. There's nothing bubbly, sweet, happy or loving about abortion for anyone no matter what spin you put on it and that's what it stinks of, its like the fu*kin wrapper of a chocolate bar.

BalcombeSt4 · 16-05-2018 07:29PM

I seen a NO poster today telling me a fetus doesn't form a heart until it's nearly a month old. So they keep helping me to reinforce my convictions to vote YES.

nozzferrahhtoo · 16-05-2018 07:29PM

Lia_lia wrote: »

Who here in this thread has been out canvassing for Yes? Any tips for me? Bit terrified but I'm more terrified of a No vote so feel like I have to go out and talk to people...

I have always loved the idea that bravery is not the lack of fear. It is proceeding despite fear. That alone should tell you the kind of person you are.

As for advice and so forth I am not sure I can offer any myself, but Atheist Ireland did a series of videos with speakers for the "yes" side. And the final speaker of the group was someone who DOES do campaigning door to door like you will.

So perhaps her talk, around 14 minutes long, will be helpful and maybe even inspiring for you! The speaker in the link is Bernadette Grogan of Together For Yes. Would appreciate a general review of what you thought of the video and her words actually.

Bannasidhe · 16-05-2018 07:30PM

Logo wrote: »

Given the lack of choice I have no option but to vote no. I totally agree that the 8th should be repealed but I will not vote yes because it will mean that after 72 hours an abortion will be allowed up to three months into pregnancy, and up to six months depending on the circumstances.

It's less than 12 weeks which is not quite the same thing as up to 3 months but leaving that aside are you unaware of the circumstances in which abortion is permissible after that 12 week point?
They are, by any definition, extreme circumstances.

So you do have a choice. You can condemn those women whose pregnancy fits the definition of extreme circumstances to suffer under the current status quo or you can choose to show compassion. Repealing the 8th is the only why this can be achieved.

Just her · 16-05-2018 07:30PM

wexie wrote: »

You mean like with literally any other legislation?

I felt like the post I was replying to sounded as if we would have a say again when they said 'lets talk about abortion then'. My point is I don't believe we will have a say in anything if it is repealed, which you appear to agree with.

Cunning Alias · 16-05-2018 07:31PM

It's a horrible distressing thing to see regardless of how you plan on voting.

It makes sense that the Yes side don't want people thinking about this and it makes sense that the No side (at least most of them) don't want to be seen as traumatizing people with images.

An argument could be made that this is what we are voting to allow, so we should have the balls to see it with our own eyes, but it's just too horrific.

Nermal · 16-05-2018 07:32PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Sites like Boards.ie would ban me if I posted an abortion picture, but why? Why hide from the reality of what we are being asked to vote for?

A hip replacement is pretty brutal. You'd want a strong constitution to watch open-heart surgery. I saw a screw put in a broken femur once, and it looked like wet carpentry. Can we ban all those surgeries too? They're pretty gross.

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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