8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 16-05-2018 06:39PM

Lia_lia wrote: »

This has probably been brought up a few times so apologies.

I've decided I'm going to go canvassing (for Yes!) tomorrow evening and hopefully up until the end of next week. Haven't gone yet as I've been a bit scared tbh...not sure of the reaction and what kind of things I should say to people.

Who here in this thread has been out canvassing for Yes? Any tips for me? Bit terrified but I'm more terrified of a No vote so feel like I have to go out and talk to people...

You're in Cork aren't you, we might see each other!

Don't wear heels for one thing. Close the gates! Smile.

I know it's intimidating but when I went it was grand. Most people are polite even if they obviously don't think much of what you're doing.

Can't get out again before next week myself but looking forward to it, honestly.

They'll pair you with someone experienced and run you through everything beforehand, and there's an opportunity to get stuff off your chest at the end. Be grand girl, good on ya!

Mushy · 16-05-2018 06:40PM

Seeing No campaigners on the news there, woman went through with pregnancy despite a ffa with the baby. I got the impression that they feel if the 8th is repealed that you'd be forced to have the abortion. How can people think that? Like if there is an ffa, you can still give birth and enjoy the time the kid is with you.

Sheeps · 16-05-2018 06:41PM

The yes side has misleading posters too. If the statistic is 1 in 6 pregnancies are terminated in the UK is it really more palatable than if 1 in 5?

robarmstrong · 16-05-2018 06:42PM

Sheeps wrote: »

The yes side has misleading posters too. If the statistic is 1 in 6 pregnancies are terminated in the UK is it really more palatable than if 1 in 5?

Well yes, because one is a lie and the other one isn't.

NAGDEFI · 16-05-2018 06:42PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

If you have a problem with a poster PM a mod, otherwise don't detract from the thread.

Back to relevance - I had some no canvassers at my door earlier today, couldn't answer questions regarding cases of uterine abnormalities, rape, or incestuous circumstances.

Asked me why focus on the hard case so I countered with why aren't they? Asked them why sympathise with these hard cases but draw the line there, each case is unique and could be hard in it's own right, that repealing the 8th would lead to guaranteed care and support for these hard cases whilst retaining it would just delay the care and support.

Asked me would I consider changing my mind despite that and I said nope, they politely thanked me for my time and apologized for disturbing me. Overall it was pleasant, they were courteous and they listened. They also accepted that some of their posters were infact misleading and were more than happy to accept the evidence disproving it too.

It was a pleasant change from previous discussions.

No harm in mentioning on a thread if a poster is constantly abusing the other side in the debate. Particularly when you do complain and mods don't act. Name and shame works fine for somebody who accuses another online of being an 'abuser of women' for no reason.

I think Rob your idea of 'detracting' from the thread is people not agreeing with you.

eviltwin · 16-05-2018 06:42PM

Sheeps wrote: »

The yes side has misleading posters too. If the statistic is 1 in 6 pregnancies are terminated in the UK is it really more palatable than if 1 in 5?

That 1 in 5 poster is a No poster

Sheeps · 16-05-2018 06:43PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

Well yes, because one is a lie and the other one isn't.

So we should feel comfortable with 1 in 6 and not 1 in 5.

gctest50 · 16-05-2018 06:46PM

Sheeps wrote: »

The yes side has misleading posters too. If the statistic is 1 in 6 pregnancies are terminated in the UK is it really more palatable than if 1 in 5?

I don't see those posters saying :

btw : 1 in 4 pregnancies miscarry

Logo · 16-05-2018 06:46PM

Given the lack of choice I have no option but to vote no. I totally agree that the 8th should be repealed but I will not vote yes because it will mean that after 72 hours an abortion will be allowed up to three months into pregnancy, and up to six months depending on the circumstances.

robarmstrong · 16-05-2018 06:46PM

NAGDEFI wrote: »

No harm in mentioning on a thread if a poster is constantly abusing the other side in the debate. Particularly when you do complain and mods don't act. Name and shame works fine for somebody who accuses another online of being an 'abuser of women' for no reason.

I think Rob your idea of 'detracting' from the thread is people not agreeing with you.

No, it's detracting from the thread, like the mod said.

My idea of detracting from the thread is absolutely nowhere near people not agreeing with me, it's people who post things are not related to the discussion at hand, we were told to abide by mods instructions listed previously. I'm not discussing this further with you, I'm not going down the route of a discussion like this, if you don't understand that then the onus is on you, not me.

robarmstrong · 16-05-2018 06:48PM

Sheeps wrote: »

So we should feel comfortable with 1 in 6 and not 1 in 5.

Never said that, one is the truth and one is a lie.

One in six is better than one in five, wouldn't you think?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 16-05-2018 06:48PM

Just her wrote: »

Could I ask pro choice advocates if the there is a point in pregnancy at which they are uncomfortable with abortion, i.e at how many weeks would they disagree with abortion, if at all. Apologies I'm sure this has been asked before but I wouldn't know where to start to find answers on the thread

Termination of pregnancy past the point of viability doesn't mean ending the life of a foetus, but early delivery. I'm comfortable with that, yes.

Gestational limits are far more the point than the circumstances of conception, imo. I kind of naively thought that'd be the crux of the debate, but nope, this is Ireland, so it's all about if you're a good enough girl/hard enough case to be allowed one.

NAGDEFI · 16-05-2018 06:49PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

No, it's detracting from the thread, like the mod said.

My idea of detracting from the thread is absolutely nowhere near people not agreeing with me, it's people who post things are not related to the discussion at hand, we were told to abide by mods instructions listed previously. I'm not discussing this further with you, I'm not going down the route of a discussion like this, if you don't understand that then the onus is on you, not me.

The mod might have been referring to you and not me. You labelled No voters 'Ass Clowns'. Charming..

dudara · 16-05-2018 06:49PM

Just her wrote: »

Could I ask pro choice advocates if the there is a point in pregnancy at which they are uncomfortable with abortion, i.e at how many weeks would they disagree with abortion, if at all. Apologies I'm sure this has been asked before but I wouldn't know where to start to find answers on the thread

Ive answered this before so I’m happy to answer again. Let me start though by saying that I am not completely comfortable with abortion, I wish it wasn’t required but I’ve come to see a logic and reasoning for it.

For me personally, I think the 12 week limit, or thereabouts is a fair time to allow a woman to make a decision on continuing a pregnancy. That time frame also ties in with the natural timeframe in which miscarriages mostly occur.

After that point, I agree that abortion should be restricted, but allowed where required. Once we reach viability, pregnancies can be terminated through means other than abortion.

All of the above is based on current understanding of pregnancy and our medical ability to sustain early delivery babies. These limits will probably change as we learn more and improve our medical ability.

gctest50 · 16-05-2018 06:50PM

Logo wrote: »

Given the lack of choice I have no option but to vote no. I totally agree that the 8th should be repealed but I will not vote yes because it will mean that after 72 hours an abortion will be allowed up to three months into pregnancy, and up to six months depending on the circumstances.

Well, those that can afford it will have to keep getting the ferry or plane to here then :

l

Nice if you can afford it and have no complications ( cancer, sepsis on the horizon )

Calina · 16-05-2018 06:50PM

Logo wrote: »

Given the lack of choice I have no option but to vote no. I totally agree that the 8th should be repealed but I will not vote yes because it will mean that after 72 hours an abortion will be allowed up to three months into pregnancy, and up to six months depending on the circumstances.

In other words you don’t agree that the 8th should be repealed.

dudara · 16-05-2018 06:51PM

NAGDEFI wrote: »

No harm in mentioning on a thread if a poster is constantly abusing the other side in the debate. Particularly when you do complain and mods don't act. Name and shame works fine for somebody who accuses another online of being an 'abuser of women' for no reason.

I think Rob your idea of 'detracting' from the thread is people not agreeing with you.

Please report to the mods and don’t take it upon yourself. This kind of argumentative to’ing and fro’ing is what contributed to the thread being closed and cleaned yesterday. Don’t ruin it for everybody.

applehunter · 16-05-2018 06:51PM

Lia_lia wrote: »

This has probably been brought up a few times so apologies.

I've decided I'm going to go canvassing (for Yes!) tomorrow evening and hopefully up until the end of next week. Haven't gone yet as I've been a bit scared tbh...not sure of the reaction and what kind of things I should say to people.

Who here in this thread has been out canvassing for Yes? Any tips for me? Bit terrified but I'm more terrified of a No vote so feel like I have to go out and talk to people...

Twitter is not the real world.

Most people will be polite either way.

NAGDEFI · 16-05-2018 06:52PM

dudara wrote: »

Ive answered this before so I’m happy to answer again. Let me start though by saying that I am not completely comfortable with abortion, I wish it wasn’t required but I’ve come to see a logic and reasoning for it.

For me personally, I think the 12 week limit, or thereabouts is a fair time to allow a woman to make a decision on continuing a pregnancy. That time frame also ties in with the natural timeframe in which miscarriages mostly occur.

After that point, I agree that abortion should be restricted, but allowed where required. Once we reach viability, pregnancies can be terminated through means other than abortion.

All of the above is based on current understanding of pregnancy and our medical ability to sustain early delivery babies. These limits will probably change as we learn more and improve our medical ability.

I may not agree but very honest answer. Reasoned.

16-05-2018 06:52PM

Lia_lia wrote: »

This has probably been brought up a few times so apologies.

I've decided I'm going to go canvassing (for Yes!) tomorrow evening and hopefully up until the end of next week. Haven't gone yet as I've been a bit scared tbh...not sure of the reaction and what kind of things I should say to people.

Who here in this thread has been out canvassing for Yes? Any tips for me? Bit terrified but I'm more terrified of a No vote so feel like I have to go out and talk to people...

I started canvassing a couple of weeks ago and it wasn't scary at all. You'll be paired up with someone and you can just observe what they do at the start. If you feel comfortable you can go on your own but you won't be expected to. I haven't had any bad experiences, a few people tell you they're not interested but nothing nasty.

If you feel passionate about getting this referendum passed, it's a great way to feel like you've contributed. I found it quite therapeutic last night after the awful debate the night before.

I have found that I only get into significant conversations with a couple of people a night, the others will tell you how they're voting or will just take a leaflet. But it's as much about encouraging the Yes people to come out and vote as it is about talking to undecideds.

Good luck, you'll be absolutely fine

dudara · 16-05-2018 06:53PM

Logo wrote: »

Given the lack of choice I have no option but to vote no. I totally agree that the 8th should be repealed but I will not vote yes because it will mean that after 72 hours an abortion will be allowed up to three months into pregnancy, and up to six months depending on the circumstances.

Right now it doesn’t “mean” it. All we have is proposed heads of legislation, an outline if you will. There’s a long process to go thorough yet before we get the final legislation post-repeal.

Hoestly, if you feel the 8th should be repealed, then vote for repeal. And let’s address abortion then.

16-05-2018 06:54PM

Esmeralda Inexpensive Balloonist wrote: »

You're in Cork aren't you, we might see each other!

Don't wear heels for one thing. Close the gates! Smile.

I know it's intimidating but when I went it was grand. Most people are polite even if they obviously don't think much of what you're doing.

Can't get out again before next week myself but looking forward to it, honestly.

They'll pair you with someone experienced and run you through everything beforehand, and there's an opportunity to get stuff off your chest at the end. Be grand girl, good on ya!

Great, thanks. Yes I'm in the city. A colleague of mine has been doing it for a while now and says it's grand. Might see you out there!

Sheeps · 16-05-2018 06:56PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

Never said that, one is the truth and one is a lie.

One in six is better than one in five, wouldn't you think?

Yes It certainly is. Regardless I don't think it's acceptable, not that the situation will arise.

The point I'm trying to make is that some slight inaccuracies with the statistics are not as far off the mark as the yes side would have you believe, and that both sides are at skewing the stats and facts so they are interpreted slightly in their sides favour.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 16-05-2018 06:57PM

Lia_lia wrote: »

Great, thanks. Yes I'm in the city. A colleague of mine has been doing it for a while now and says it's grand. Might see you out there!

Seriously about the shoes though, it's a lot of walking and depending where you're canvassing can be physically tiring. I did Sundays Well in cheap trainers and my legs were killing me for days!

NAGDEFI · 16-05-2018 06:58PM

dudara wrote: »

Please report to the mods and don’t take it upon yourself. This kind of argumentative to’ing and fro’ing is what contributed to the thread being closed and cleaned yesterday. Don’t ruin it for everybody.

I did Dudara but mods don't act in reprimanding unsavoury Yes posts. It's my honest opinion and that of most No poster's. Until we get fair play we have to protect ourselves.

Can you imagine being called an abuser of women and no action?

Likewise no action for the poster who said Maria Stein should have been aborted. Yet Outlaw Pete, Graces 7, Anne Frank are all reprimanded very early?

Martina1991 · 16-05-2018 06:58PM

dudara wrote: »

Ive answered this before so I’m happy to answer again. Let me start though by saying that I am not completely comfortable with abortion, I wish it wasn’t required but I’ve come to see a logic and reasoning for it.

For me personally, I think the 12 week limit, or thereabouts is a fair time to allow a woman to make a decision on continuing a pregnancy. That time frame also ties in with the natural timeframe in which miscarriages mostly occur.

After that point, I agree that abortion should be restricted, but allowed where required. Once we reach viability, pregnancies can be terminated through means other than abortion.

All of the above is based on current understanding of pregnancy and our medical ability to sustain early delivery babies. These limits will probably change as we learn more and improve our medical ability.

I would agree with all of this.
No one wants to see anyone they know go through an abortion, but if someone reaches that decision, I do not have the right to tell a woman what to do with her life.

I think 12 weeks is an acceptable time frame for restrictions as it would provide the window for victims of rape to reach a decision without ridicule.

~24 weeks is accepted as the earliest stage of viability, so I would not like to see abortions after this stage unless there was a FFA or threat to the life of the mother.

Logo · 16-05-2018 06:58PM

Calina wrote: »

In other words you don’t agree that the 8th should be repealed.

The 8th should be repealed but not on these limited voting options.

Ken. · 16-05-2018 06:59PM

Mod- NAGDEFI do not post in the thread again. Reason-Ye were warned.

Robarmstrong 24 hour thread ban.

Calina · 16-05-2018 07:00PM

Sheeps wrote: »

robarmstrong wrote: »

Never said that, one is the truth and one is a lie.

One in six is better than one in five, wouldn't you think?

Yes It certainly is. Regardless I don't think it's acceptable, not that the situation will arise.

The point I'm trying to make is that some slight inaccuracies with the statistics are not as far off the mark as the yes side would have you believe, and that both sides are at skewing the stats and facts so they are interpreted slightly in their sides favour.

That is actually a big miss statistically speaking. They are overestimating the number by around 20%. Not slightly inaccurate at all.

wexie · 16-05-2018 07:01PM

NAGDEFI wrote: »

I may not agree but very honest answer. Reasoned.

I find it a lot easier to respect anybody's opinion if they at least have given it some thought and tried reasoning it through.

There are yes voters I've spoken to whose opinion I would agree with but not respect.

And no voters whose opinion I disagree with and still respect.

But I think that distinction gets lost a lot.

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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