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Dublin - BusConnects

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  • Cashless public transport is still at least two years away for the capital, according to the National Transport Authority.
    https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2018/0515/963675-leap-card/
    Quite disappointing




  • Is there any chance at all in the name of all things holy, that we could get integrated ticketing? Please? rest of Europe has enjoyed this privilege since the second world war. We were promised it with Leap in 2011, but as of yet no joy. At this stage I don't even mind if it costs a lot to scrap leap and bring in integrated tickets, I'm prepared to forget about the money wasted on the leap project.




  • cgcsb wrote: »
    Is there any chance at all in the name of all things holy, that we could get integrated ticketing? Please? rest of Europe has enjoyed this privilege since the second world war. We were promised it with Leap in 2011, but as of yet no joy. At this stage I don't even mind if it costs a lot to scrap leap and bring in integrated tickets, I'm prepared to forget about the money wasted on the leap project.

    There have been integrated monthly and annual tickets for years.

    And to correct you (again), I don’t recall the NTA ever saying that the introduction of LEAP would include single integrated fares across modes.

    I think you listened to politicians a bit too much and took what they were saying as gospel.

    BusConnects however does include a commitment to changing without fare penalty - again I will wait to see whether that happens.





  • Not surprising though.

    If BusConnects actually happens there will be a massive amount of change happening in the next couple of years.

    Much of that will cost money so it’s down to priorities.




  • That article mentions that 70pc of journeys in Dublin are now paid for using leap.

    Do you think that includes social welfare cards? If so I would have thought the percentage would be higher. Why would you still pay with cash when leap is so much cheaper and has capping etc.


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  • G_R wrote: »
    That article mentions that 70pc of journeys in Dublin are now paid for using leap.

    Do you think that includes social welfare cards? If so I would have thought the percentage would be higher. Why would you still pay with cash when leap is so much cheaper and has capping etc.

    Switching away from cash is ultimately going to be a political decision and the NTA need to be sure that they will have political backing to do it.

    There’s still a sizeable rump of the Irish population who don’t trust cards of any sort and unfortunately they shout loudly.

    Logic doesn’t come into convincing them sadly.

    So it’s going to have to be very carefully managed.




  • LXFlyer wrote: »
    Switching away from cash is ultimately going to be a political decision and the NTA need to be sure that they will have political backing to do it.

    There’s still a sizeable rump of the Irish population who don’t trust cards of any sort and unfortunately they shout loudly.

    Logic doesn’t come into convincing them sadly.

    So it’s going to have to be very carefully managed.

    Make the cash fares 5 or 10 times the leap card fares. It's ridiculous the amount of time wasted sitting at bus stops while people count out their change.




  • Make the cash fares 5 or 10 times the leap card fares. It's ridiculous the amount of time wasted sitting at bus stops while people count out their change.

    Well try that without having political backing and it’ll crash immediately.

    Public transport is one of those areas where it’s always baby steps in terms of managing change.

    That much should be obvious to anyone with an understanding of the history of political interventions over the years.

    I don’t agree with it but believe me it’s very difficult to change something as significantly as that without backing from all the parties.




  • Pauln90 wrote: »
    Have you anymore information?

    Like what?




  • LXFlyer wrote: »
    There have been integrated monthly and annual tickets for years.

    How are monthly and annual tickets going to work with go ahead? Will DB/multi operator monthly/annual tickets work on Go Ahead buses?


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  • bg07 wrote: »
    How are monthly and annual tickets going to work with go ahead? Will DB/multi operator monthly/annual tickets work on Go Ahead buses?

    Yes they will.
    No change as far as the end user is concerned.

    Think of them as Dublin City PSO services tickets rather than Dublin Bus per se.




  • cgcsb wrote: »
    Is there any chance at all in the name of all things holy, that we could get integrated ticketing? Please? rest of Europe has enjoyed this privilege since the second world war. We were promised it with Leap in 2011, but as of yet no joy. At this stage I don't even mind if it costs a lot to scrap leap and bring in integrated tickets, I'm prepared to forget about the money wasted on the leap project.

    Leap is actually a really good ticketing system from the technical aspect * and could easily do true integrated ticketing if we wanted it to.

    The problem isn't Leap, the problem is in getting DB/IR/BE and everyone else to agree to integrated ticketing and how the fare box gets divided up between each of them.

    It is a policy issue, rather then technical.

    * Use the DB/BE ticket machines are atrocious and badly need to be replaced, but again these far pre-date Leap.




  • bk wrote: »
    Leap is actually a really good ticketing system from the technical aspect * and could easily do true integrated ticketing if we wanted it to.

    The problem isn't Leap, the problem is in getting DB/IR/BE and everyone else to agree to integrated ticketing and how the fare box gets divided up between each of them.

    It is a policy issue, rather then technical.

    * Use the DB/BE ticket machines are atrocious and badly need to be replaced, but again these far pre-date Leap.

    The answer in for NTA to get the fare box.




  • The answer in for NTA to get the fare box.

    Yes and that is what will start to happen with GoAhead and their 10% of routes.

    But it will be a slow and multi-year if not decade process I fear.




  • bk wrote: »
    Leap is actually a really good ticketing system from the technical aspect * and could easily do true integrated ticketing if we wanted it to.

    The problem isn't Leap, the problem is in getting DB/IR/BE and everyone else to agree to integrated ticketing and how the fare box gets divided up between each of them.

    It is a policy issue, rather then technical.

    * Use the DB/BE ticket machines are atrocious and badly need to be replaced, but again these far pre-date Leap.
    DB/BE and IR are all part of the CIE group, 100% owned by the state, failure to integrate ticketing between them is unforgiveable. The state can simply instruct them what to do.




  • cgcsb wrote: »
    DB/BE and IR are all part of the CIE group, 100% owned by the state, failure to integrate ticketing between them is unforgiveable. The state can simply instruct them what to do.

    Or get the NTA to do it for them.




  • cgcsb wrote: »
    DB/BE and IR are all part of the CIE group, 100% owned by the state, failure to integrate ticketing between them is unforgiveable. The state can simply instruct them what to do.

    Again, there ARE already integrated ticket products for regular passengers. You keep ignoring this fact.

    Ultimately funding is the issue here - the companies would be out of pocket if you introduce time based multi-modal ticketing so how do they fill that shortfall. Until recently subsidies were reducing and that’s only starting to change now.




  • LXFlyer wrote: »
    Again, there ARE already integrated ticket products for regular passengers. You keep ignoring this fact.

    I'm not ignoring that fact. My point is that it is simply not good enough for the 21st century.




  • BusConnects timelines according to TII chief executive Michael Nolan speaking to the Oireachtas transport committee:
    The redesigned Dublin bus network, with reconfigured routes, schedules and fare structures, would be published in July as part of the Bus Connects programme, deputy chief executive of Transport Infrastructure Ireland Hugh Creegan told the committee.

    Plans for investment in infrastructure on the 16 core bus corridors in and out of the city, would be published in October he said.
    Source: Irish Times




  • Interesting. The decision on the College Green fiasco is to be made 'before august'. I wonder will the coincide? certainly there'll have to be immediate changes to routes to accommodate the plaza. Interesting times ahead.


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  • cgcsb wrote: »
    I'm not ignoring that fact. My point is that it is simply not good enough for the 21st century.

    Your posts do ignore it.

    There have been monthly and annual multi-mode passes available for decades.

    Your posts read as if they were never available.

    They cover the vast majority of PT users, another fact you seem to conveniently overlook.

    Again to extend that to single tickets will cost money and somehow the operating companies will have to be compensated for loss of earnings - that means subsidy increases.

    Single journey time based ticketing (despite what you seem to think) was never proposed by the NTA as happening.

    What they and politicians took as integrated ticketing was the single card with discounts for cross-mode travel.




  • LXFlyer wrote: »
    Again to extend that to single tickets will cost money and somehow the operating companies will have to be compensated for loss of earnings - that means subsidy increases.

    It could be paid for by changes to the FTP system. Either a change to validity - say not before 9:30 am, or by a small charge for intercity rail use, or perhaps by some other limit, like no companion or spouse passes.

    However, the FTP is invaluable for social inclusion. For example, elderly drivers are put off the road by medical checks, and it allows social interaction for them which otherwise might be impossible.

    I would support increased subsidy, if it was not to be paid out in increased wages.




  • It could be paid for by changes to the FTP system. Either a change to validity - say not before 9:30 am, or by a small charge for intercity rail use, or perhaps by some other limit, like no companion or spouse passes.

    However, the FTP is invaluable for social inclusion. For example, elderly drivers are put off the road by medical checks, and it allows social interaction for them which otherwise might be impossible.

    I would support increased subsidy, if it was not to be paid out in increased wages.

    Political suicide Sam.




  • LXFlyer wrote: »
    Political suicide Sam.

    I know, but it is what should be done.

    The FTP has grown and grown over the years. It used to be restricted to outside rush hour, but now it is not.

    It is totally out of control at this stage. I know of one person down the country who has a companion pass on the basis she looks after a neighbour who is house bound, so does not use their FTP. The Companion FTP is used for shopping trips up to Dublin.




  • I know, but it is what should be done.

    The FTP has grown and grown over the years. It used to be restricted to outside rush hour, but now it is not.

    It is totally out of control at this stage. I know of one person down the country who has a companion pass on the basis she looks after a neighbour who is house bound, so does not use their FTP. The Companion FTP is used for shopping trips up to Dublin.

    What should be done and what can and will be done are two different things.

    You need to be realistic politically in your expectations.




  • LXFlyer wrote: »
    What should be done and what can and will be done are two different things.

    You need to be realistic politically in your expectations.

    I think an element of cynicism has crept into my expectations, so being realistic means being permanently disappointed.




  • I think an element of cynicism has crept into my expectations, so being realistic means being permanently disappointed.

    I’ve long taken the view that where politicians are involved with public transport, if you keep expectations low then you can (occasionally) end up being pleasantly surprised!

    Expecting snap decisions and the Earth, Moon and stars generally ends up with disappointment!!




  • Just caught the end of The Tonight Show, IT headline was "Dublin homes to lose gardens over bus project" or something along those lines. Anyone interested in the BusConnects project already knew this, but would this make the first news story specifically around gardens? I sincerely hope TDs and other politicians back it 100%.




  • Just caught the end of the Tonight Show on TV3 and they had tomorrow’s papers up.

    Tuesday’s main story on the front of the Irish Times (according to the presenters) claims that 1,300 gardens will be CPO’d in Dublin for new bus and rail lines.


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  • And so it begins

    Tomorrow's Irish Times features a headline on the ramifications of bus corridor improvement relating to people losing their gardens

    It would be a sin to lead with the people involved getting an actual public transport service


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