8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

M.Cribben · 14-05-2018 11:48PM

There's no point discussing these debates tbh.
Whether it's here, the journal, facebook, any social media site.
The Yes side posts consist of "The Yes side came across very well and clearly won the debate, the No side are all liars"
The No side posts consist of "The No side came across very well and clearly won the debate, the Yes side are all liars"
Then the odd disingenuous poster trying to validate their point "I'm Yes side and even I thought the Yes side came across poorly", or "I'm No side and even I thought the No side came across poorly".
The problem with making your mind up early is you can't watch something like tonight's debate objectively.

_Dara_ · 14-05-2018 11:48PM

Well, I really hope No campaigners stop saying they are being silenced now! It’s clearly not the case!

Dressing gown · 14-05-2018 11:48PM

TL17 wrote: »

Well I honestly didnt have my mind made up. Not sure I will bother but if I do its a no . We going round in circles for hard cases. Cant make laws on this basis. Seems the only yes argument

‘Hard cases’= two families a week in Ireland finding out their 24 week old foetus is incompatible with life. Is that really that rare? Percentages do not equal real people. Your neighbour, your work colleague, your sibling. Could be any of them. Have you lost someone you love? Do you know how hard it is? Demo you not think all of those Irish families deserve the easiest road possible to process their grief? Or the mums of kids that get diagnosed with cancer? Have you lost anyone to cancer?

That debate was a load of Bollox. I have a PhD from Cambridge and I’m a qualified solicitor (albeit nonpractising at the moment). I have also miscarried an 11 week old foetus. To say Maria Steen was behaving in a legally unethical way is an understatement. To allow the lie that a 12 week old foetus is fully formed to be the final word is grossly irresponsible of RTÉ. Why the hell would we have 40 weeks of pregnancy if that was the case. And in fact, pregnancy should be longer only the mother would not be capable of birthing the head of a longer gestated baby. If you are in any way educated do not be fooled by the ‘show’ that was put on tonight. It was not impartial. It was not fair. It was not respectful and it was not honest. Inform yourself. Do your own research. Do not vote no based on the lies presented as truths tonight.

14-05-2018 11:49PM

AnneFrank wrote: »

So any "skull" that disagrees with you is thick. Nice Rob, classy

well, TBF, anyone that disagrees that Robs wife/ partner should be dealt with here at home, probably does have a thick head!
How could you not agree that it should be dealt with by her own doctors, in her own country?

Larbre34 · 14-05-2018 11:49PM

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Some audience members laughed when Savita Halappanavar's name was mentioned. Just think about that for a minute.

Ah now. There was harumphs and scoffs but nobody laughed as if it were amusing.

Mattie McGrath did say she should be left in her grave, as badly put as ever, but her case is a massive shadow over No

robarmstrong · 14-05-2018 11:50PM

M.Cribben wrote: »

There's no point discussing these debates tbh.
Whether it's here, the journal, facebook, any social media site.
The Yes side posts consist of "The Yes side came across very well and clearly won the debate, the No side are all liars"
The No side posts consist of "The No side came across very well and clearly won the debate, the Yes side are all liars"
Then the odd disingenuous poster trying to validate their point "I'm Yes side and even I thought the Yes side came across poorly", or "I'm No side and even I thought the No side came across poorly".
The problem with making your mind up early is you can't watch something like tonight's debate objectively.

That's a fair comment to make.

Are you currently undecided? If so, do you feel the pressure is on the next 10 days to decide? Doesn't really seem like a realistic timeline IMO.

Mrsmum · 14-05-2018 11:50PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I can't believe RTE were so naive to think that the No side wouldn't lie and cheat to stack the deck in their favour.

There is no way that audience was 50:50. People clearly lied, pretending to be Yes or undecided, when they are actually committed No voters or even activists.

Their whooping and hollering was a disgrace.

Claire went from No speaker to No audience member to No speaker more than once without giving a Yes speaker or audience member an opportunity

Boylan in particular shouted down, interrupted, hissed at every time he tried to make a point. He almost never was allowed to finish what he was saying.

How did they manage to speak to more No GPs than Yes GPs when the latter far outnumber the former? The Yes GPs put together got less speaking time than just one of the No GPs did.

Stein allowed to waffle on endlessly and quote dictionary defintions at us just to spin it out and drag out the time taken to make her "point"

It would want to make you burn your TV licence.

Shame on you RTE.

It was a debate and the no side were far better debaters. I don't think either side tells lies, just more a matter of how they interpret things.
As for the audience, at the beginning the clapping etc was even from both sides but very quickly the yes side had nothing to cheer for. They should blame their own debaters for that instead of pretending that they wouldn't have been clapping if they had anything to clap for.

neonsofa · 14-05-2018 11:50PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

Thank you! Already had the 3d scan there at 30 weeks, let's just say she's definitely her daddy's daughter, the absolute spit of me!

I just hope she doesn't have a beard, too.

I had heartburn entire pregnancy- was told by everybody that baby would have loads of hair. Had a dream baby was born with a beard! In actual fact she was completely bald til she was about 4! Told she was a great boy multiple times a day by strangers :pac:

AnneFrank · 14-05-2018 11:50PM

kenmc wrote: »

The problem with arguing with an idiot is that they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Certainly would be in no rush to swerve to avoid her. Condescending smug b1tch. World would be a better place if her mother had had access to contraceptives and/or abortion.

That's a disgraceful comment

AllForIt · 14-05-2018 11:51PM

eviltwin wrote: »

I found it juvenile and ridiculous. It was like an entertainment programme rather than a serious debate. If you are undecided I'd encourage you to watch the TV3 debates back online, The Tonight Show covers all discussed here and more without the childish shouting and interrupting.

Thanks, I will. I just mean to say that it wasn't Claire's fault the way it turned out.

I would have preferred that the audience was made up of general members of the public as it usually is on that show rather than know commentators, senators etc.

dark crystal · 14-05-2018 11:51PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Anyone with any feedback on the debate can email RTby emailing complaints@rte.ie.

I may or may not have already sent them a mail with my thoughts on tonight’s show.

Also saw on twitter that Claire ignored the Yes side during breaks and at the end of the show and would only speak to the No side.
Clear where her loyalties lie.

#cblive trending on Twitter and many people upset at how that debate was handled.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/cblive?src=tren&lang=en

M.Cribben · 14-05-2018 11:51PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

That's a fair comment to make.

Are you currently undecided? If so, do you feel the pressure is on the next 10 days to decide? Doesn't really seem like a realistic timeline IMO.

I'm decided on which way I'm voting. Just interesting (and somewhat challenging) to at least try watch the debate objectively.

AnneFrank · 14-05-2018 11:52PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

Thanks Anne, I took a leaf out of the AnneFrank Book of Class.

I skipped the whole "make fun of peoples' miscarriages" chapter though, hope that's cool.

It's a diary actually

golfball37 · 14-05-2018 11:54PM

Claire Byrne was appalling I thought

neonsofa · 14-05-2018 11:54PM

AnneFrank wrote: »

It's a diary actually

I don't agree with anything you say in this thread but that made me laugh way more than it should have :pac:

eviltwin · 14-05-2018 11:54PM

AllForIt wrote: »

Thanks, I will. I just mean to say that it wasn't Claire's fault the way it turned out.

I would have preferred that the audience was made up of general members of the public as it usually is on that show rather than know commentators, senators etc.

I agree. I dont care what a Catholic like Maria Steen or a politician like Marie Lou think, it's real people who are going to be affected by this and I want to hear their views.

This thread is very educational. If you have any questions this is not a bad place to ask and get some diverse experiences on both sides.

meeeeh · 14-05-2018 11:54PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Yeah. I think the No audience members will be feeling very smug when they were leaving the studio tonight, but to the average voter their whooping and hollering, disrespect and bullying tactics are a big turn off.

One would hope so. I actually didn't think 'No' side won the debate, they managed to scaremonger better. Mary Lou is very impressive how she can control the room (and I am not a fan). Not many debaters have her ability and the rest were just drowned by the mob. I thought Peter Boylan was fine but it's hard to win a debate when someone who held her foetus is considered to have the same expertise as one of the top obstetric experts in the country.

Larbre34 · 14-05-2018 11:55PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

I'm telling RobertKK to shut his mouth insinuating he knew what was going on in my situation, which is a fair remark for me to make.

In fairness, you are an avatar on a bulletin boards site, we have no idea who you are or what actually happened or didnt happen.

Generally, I feel nothing but deep sorrow for those faced with such awful circumstances, but tonight i saw a woman in that audience claim that her miscarried foetus of 12 weeks gestation, dead in the palm of her hand, had her own hand on her chin and was smiling, enjoying her life.....so forgive me if im not too into personal accounts just now.

robarmstrong · 14-05-2018 11:55PM

neonsofa wrote: »

I had heartburn entire pregnancy- was told by everybody that baby would have loads of hair. Had a dream baby was born with a beard! In actual fact she was completely bald til she was about 4! Told she was a great boy multiple times a day by strangers :pac:

Ah don't say that :pac: I was hairy enough as it is now you've me terrified she's gonna be a little furball :pac:

https://scontent-dub4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/32492048_843292392525506_3261539946300702720_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=3d5002c4b31324c55c6716bef3bf8740&oe=5B84A234

pic for comparison.. not the best quality I know but it's difficult to take one when your phone tries to focus on two different images at once :mad:

gctest50 · 14-05-2018 11:55PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

.,.................

Mattie McGrath did say she should be left in her grave, as badly put as ever, but her case is a massive shadow over No

Well...... Mattie can ram it

Andanappa Yalagi happy for pro-choice campaigners to use daughter’s image

“I will watch this vote. I hope the people of Ireland will vote yes for abortion, for the ladies of Ireland and the people of Ireland. My daughter, she lost her life because of this abortion law, because of the diagnosis, and she could not have an abortion. She died.”

NAGDEFI · 14-05-2018 11:56PM

When is the Pat Kenny chaired debate? Is that on tv3?

gmisk · 14-05-2018 11:56PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Anyone with any feedback on the debate can email RTÉ by emailing complaints@rte.ie.

I may or may not have already sent them a mail with my thoughts on tonight’s show.

Also saw on twitter that Claire ignored the Yes side during breaks and at the end of the show and would only speak to the No side.
Clear where her loyalties lie.

Complaint sent it was ridiculously unbalanced on a positive note, together for yes have said big increase in sign up for canvassers during the debate.

neonsofa · 14-05-2018 11:56PM

meeeeh wrote: »

One would hope so. I actually didn't think 'No' side won the debate, they managed to scaremonger better. Mary Lou is very impressive how she can control the room (and I am not a fan). .

I agree. She did extremely well and was quite respectful too.

circular flexing · 14-05-2018 11:57PM

Having whooping and cheering reduced the debate down to a football match, which is a pity given the grave and serious nature of the issue under debate. It brings to mind the "Game on" tweet from John McGuirk.

https://twitter.com/john_mcguirk/status/979023504833175555

antiskeptic · 14-05-2018 11:57PM

Dressing gown wrote: »

‘Hard cases’= two families a week in Ireland finding out their 24 week old foetus is incompatible with life. Is that really that rare? Percentages do not equal real people. Your neighbour, your work colleague, your sibling. Could be any of them. Have you lost someone you love? Do you know how hard it is? Demo you not think all of those Irish families deserve the easiest road possible to process their grief? Or the mums of kids that get diagnosed with cancer? Have you lost anyone to cancer?

It's not that folk are ignoring the hard cases. It's just that whichever way you spin it, that's the thin end of a very thick wedge.

And if anyone has a shred of an idea that life in the womb has some kind of intrinsic value that thick wedge will have trouble ramming itself through on the back of difficult cases.

To say Maria Steen was behaving in a legally unethical way is an understatement. To allow the lie that a 12 week old foetus is fully formed to be the final word is grossly irresponsible of RTÉ.

All the bits in place, just needs to grow - was the view of the obstetrician on the No side.

Why the hell would we have 40 weeks of pregnancy if that was the case.

Ever seen a small tree grown into a big tree?

.

Mrsmum · 14-05-2018 11:57PM

kenmc wrote: »

The problem with arguing with an idiot is that they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Certainly would be in no rush to swerve to avoid her. Condescending smug b1tch. World would be a better place if her mother had had access to contraceptives and/or abortion.

Wow she must have really played a blinder to elicit a response like that.

antiskeptic · 14-05-2018 11:58PM

neonsofa wrote: »

I agree. She did extremely well and was quite respectful too.

She's learned to rein in her bullish tendencies. Fair ball to her. But still the floor wiped with YES.

neonsofa · 14-05-2018 11:59PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

Ah don't say that :pac: I was hairy enough as it is now you've me terrified she's gonna be a little furball :pac:

https://scontent-dub4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/32492048_843292392525506_3261539946300702720_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=3d5002c4b31324c55c6716bef3bf8740&oe=5B84A234

pic for comparison.. not the best quality I know but it's difficult to take one when your phone tries to focus on two different images at once :mad:

Gorgeous!
As the saying goes, better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it :pac:

robarmstrong · 14-05-2018 11:59PM

AnneFrank wrote: »

It's a diary actually

You win this round, but you can't stay in that attic forever:pac:

Noveight · 14-05-2018 11:59PM

https://twitter.com/MuintirNa/status/996048518174466058

This really is utter drivel. Am I wrong, or does it suggest that saving the 8th will preserve our autonomy..?

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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