8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

RobertKK

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

How many times must you be told this is not true? How many examples do you need before you realise this is not true?

So Dr Eamon McGuinness lied when he said the 8th did not restrict him, him being a former chairman of the institute of obstetricians and gynaecoligists...
He said he carried out abortions under the 8th amendment for health reasons, I don't see him in jail.

RobAMerc

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Who's yir one in the red jumper? I'm voting for whatever she's NOT voting for.

Iona institute - anything they are for I am against.

I actually think they should be disbanded and banned.

Also think Ronan Mullen should be expatriated immediately

robarmstrong

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes and the 8th doesn't stop a woman getting life saving treatment, a doctor can as doctors differ and patients die as the saying goes...

The 8th stops my partner from having an abortion even when she's miscarrying.

The last time she miscarried, we were sitting in the Rotunda ER pleading with the doctor on-call to give her an abortion, either by D&C or whatever means necessary, we were told no because the baby had not passed away yet, so despite my partner having already passed the placenta and bleeding away, she was told nope, not until the heartbeat is gone.

She could have haemorrhaged, went into shock, god knows what, but no, despite all that had happened the 8th had bound their hands due to the very faint heartbeat. She never got that abortion and instead had to fully miscarry.

meeeeh

I would say both sides got equal time. But what happened was no side hurling lies and exaggerations all over the place and yes side trying to respond among the no clappers trying to drown them out.

If we want mob rule then no side definitely won. But as someone who can't vote I would just find it sad if Irish people went with the mob.

doylefe

doylefe wrote: »

For your pension

what is this rubbish about??
I pay plenty towards my pension, believe me!

KaneToad

vicwatson wrote: »

You don't agree? Well that's your choice

Nice to have choice init ?

Indeed.

AnneFrank

I honestly thought yes would walk this vote, but when the audience was free to air their views we saw a different story,only one audience I know but now I have great hope of a no vote.So happy to see so many women no voters too

bfa1509

The reason people think it was biased towards the no side is because the yes side were stumped for most of the debate.

lawred2

The Talking Bread wrote: »

rusty cole wrote: »

very funny the No side hissing when Miss IONA 92 is called a liar and yet not a peep when that tool mattie mcgrath shouts LIES, LIES LIES!!

also the young no doctor says, I wont refer" so he'll refuse?? refuse the woman??then quotes two medical ethical no intentional harm rules and glosses over a hippocratic oath of any sort.

the psycho bunny boiler eyes on that IONA clause , if some scrote raped her in the morning, bull **** would she carry to term, lies!!!!

The only thing I;d like to peel and then re-peel would be claire byrnes clobber..jasus she's a cracker...

Absolutely no need for that tone to make your point.

Well that's reality for a lot of women... Would you prefer to just ignore that?

B0jangles

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

How many times must you be told this is not true? How many examples do you need before you realise this is not true?

No matter how many instances which demonstrate the terrible effect the 8th has had on women's healthcare you give him, Robert will not believe you.


He knows the 8th is entirely good and abortion is never necessary, so all of the evidence to the contrary is lies, or misleading, or maybe just something to ignore until they shut up and stop asking about it.



Fanaticism is immune to evidence.

Ave Sodalis

RobertKK wrote: »

So Dr Eamon McGuinness lied when he said the 8th did not restrict him, him being a former chairman of the institute of obstetricians and gynaecoligists...
He said he carried out abortions under the 8th amendment for health reasons, I don't see him in jail.

Maybe it never affected him personally, but you have been given ample examples of women who it has affected personally. You just stuck your head in the sand and ignored them instead.

seamusk84

Dressing gown wrote: »

You know what that wasn’t a debate it was no campaign airtime.

No it was a debate, and they were better prepared to argue their point. That’s what a debate is.
Fail to prepare, prepare to fail for the yes side.

Boooourns

TL17 wrote: »

Undecided no longer. Nos have me persuaded tonight

You've just decided on that programme!! Bloody hell, open your ears a bit more that was an awful show to let it persuade you.

Kurtosis

ricero wrote: »

After tonight im starting to think No will win

Any Yes voters who are feeling this after tonight's debate (and even those who aren't) should channel that into doing what they can over the next 10 days to help the repeal side. This doesn't have to be canvassing, talking to people about why you're voting Yes and encouraging other Yes voters to spread those conversations can be invaluable.

RobertKK

bubblypop wrote: »

so, you actually believe that i should be DYING before i get medical treatment if I am pregnant???

No.

Hotblack Desiato

ricero wrote: »

No side winning this debate so far. Some of the yes side speakers have been very poor.

They were rarely allowed to speak without being interrupted and talked over, Boylan especially, and it was clear long before the end he was exasperated with Claire Byrne's incompetent chairing of the debate.

The Talking Bread

rusty cole wrote: »

oh sorry, do you find hard cases offensive!!! cos that happens every day!!

Not at all. But being subjective like that is offensive . Maria Steen doesn't impress me in anyway but using a hypothetical scenario of her being raped to make your point is pathetic. And how are you to know she wouldn't carry the baby.

You may not like the woman, many don't but if that is all you have to refute her, it doesn't bode well

lawred2

KaneToad wrote: »

applehunter wrote: »

Mary Lou kept the YES side in it.

Boylan to be dropped for the next game.

No side won the first half. Mainly due to Brid Smith own goal. Yes side upped it in the second half with some good interplay with Mary Lou and sundry rational audience members. Steen, however, played a blinder. She was pulling all the strings for the No camp. Despite being Iona she doesn't have the bang of the God squad off her. Final result, in my opinion, was 3-2 win for No side.

Thankfully it wasn't the final. Hopefully a few more fixtures yet to play. Preferably behind closed doors with no fans present.

Yer what? She's from the Iona institute. She is the god squad.

RobertKK

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Maybe it never affected him personally, but you have been given ample examples of women who it has affected personally. You just stuck your head in the sand and ignored them instead.

Do doctors differ?

neonsofa

robarmstrong wrote: »

The 8th stops my partner from having an abortion even when she's miscarrying.

Think I've said this to you before and it seems just as empty now as it did last time but I'm so sorry you and your partner had to go through that.
And to others who have experienced anything similar.

SusieBlue

Kurtosis wrote: »

Any Yes voters who are feeling this after tonight's debate (and even those who aren't) should channel that into doing what they can over the next 10 days to help the repeal side. This doesn't have to be canvassing, talking to people about why you're voting Yes and encouraging other Yes voters to spread those conversations can be invaluable.

I think this is excellent advice that I’m going to take myself. I’m going to do my absolute best over the next week to do as much as I can.

I’m very disappointed in how the debate went but it has only spurred me on to fight harder.

blondeonblonde

robarmstrong wrote: »

The 8th stops my partner from having an abortion even when she's miscarrying.

The last time she miscarried, we were sitting in the Rotunda ER pleading with the doctor on-call to give her an abortion, either by D&C or whatever means necessary, we were told no because the baby had not passed away yet, so despite my partner having already passed the placenta and bleeding away, she was told nope, not until the heartbeat is gone.

She could have haemorrhaged, went into shock, god knows what, but no, despite all that had happened the 8th had bound their hands due to the very faint heartbeat. She never got that abortion and instead had to fully miscarry.

Same thing happened to us. It was appalling and so stressful. Not to mention the nurse who kept referring to our clearly nonviable embryo as "our baby". It was both offensive & incredibly patronising at the same time..

The Talking Bread

lawred2 wrote: »

Well that's reality for a lot of women... Would you prefer to just ignore that?

You don't get the point I am making.......................

It wasnt me123

rusty cole wrote: »

she gets wheeld out every time someone demands a human right...a right to make a choice on abortion, a right to marry a same sex partner..etc etc ad nauseum..

I'm watching this on +1, am I the only one who wants to punch the smug face of Maria Steen

AnneFrank

AnneFrank wrote: »

I honestly thought yes would walk this vote, but when the audience was free to air their views we saw a different story,only one audience I know but now I have great hope of a no vote.So happy to see so many women no voters too

really?
why though?
I am overseas & couldn't watch the debate, what reasons are there to keep the 8th in place?
I honestly haven't seen or heard any

SusieBlue

RobertKK wrote: »

Do doctors differ?

I shouldn’t have to find one who ‘differs’. I should be able to tell them I’m not willing to risk my health and life and they should support me in that decision and allow me to terminate my pregnancy if I want to.

dark crystal

bfa1509 wrote: »

The reason people think it was biased towards the no side is because the yes side were stumped for most of the debate.

They were shouted down. How can you respond to a woman talking about holding a 'fully formed' 14 week foetus in her hand ffs??

Two GP's for the Yes side, at least three on the No side, one of whom got more speaking time than all the pro repeal GP's as a whole.

It was a farce.

gandalf

Decided not to watch this as Claire Byrne is a lightweight and anytime I've seen her has been unable to manage any sort of debate at all. Add this to the fact RTE are petrified of the Iona Institute and their Opus Dei members especially as they have loads of US evangelist social media funds unspent and itching for a bit of litigation.

If this performance is as bad as your descriptions then this could do the yes campaign a favour and reduce complacency and ensure the youth vote gets out in numbers.

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

No.

thats great Robert, glad to see you have opened your mind to repeal

lawred2

B0jangles wrote: »

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

How many times must you be told this is not true? How many examples do you need before you realise this is not true?

No matter how many instances which demonstrate the terrible effect the 8th has had on women's healthcare you give him, Robert will not believe you.


He knows the 8th is entirely good and abortion is never necessary, so all of the evidence to the contrary is lies, or misleading, or maybe just something to ignore until they shut up and stop asking about it.



Fanaticism is immune to evidence.

That's why these 'debates' are ultimately a waste of time. We all pretty much instinctively know where we stand on it. No amount of debating will change anyone's position.