8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

KaneToad · 14-05-2018 11:22PM

lawred2 wrote: »

Yer what? She's from the Iona institute. She is the god squad.

I'm well aware of that!! My point was, if you didn't know she was Iona, you wouldn't have gotten the whiff of God squad off her. Yes side should have asked a few simple Iona themed questions to flush her out.

(Probably should have made my point clearer!)

RobertKK · 14-05-2018 11:22PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

The 8th stops my partner from having an abortion even when she's miscarrying.

The last time she miscarried, we were sitting in the Rotunda ER pleading with the doctor on-call to give her an abortion, either by D&C or whatever means necessary, we were told no because the baby had not passed away yet, so despite my partner having already passed the placenta and bleeding away, she was told nope, not until the heartbeat is gone.

She could have haemorrhaged, went into shock, god knows what, but no, despite all that had happened the 8th had bound their hands due to the very faint heartbeat. She never got that abortion and instead had to fully miscarry.

Or maybe the medical people were at fault.

robarmstrong · 14-05-2018 11:22PM

neonsofa wrote: »

Think I've said this to you before and it seems just as empty now as it did last time but I'm so sorry you and your partner had to go through that.
And to others who have experienced anything similar.

We've gone through it quite a lot, I think 8 or 9, to be honest I can't remember the exact number as I've lost count, each time we just wait and try again and hope the little sprog implants in the right place. This time around she did and well she'll be here in 9 weeks.

blondeonblonde wrote: »

Same thing happened to us. It was appalling and so stressful. Not to mention the nurse who kept referring to our clearly nonviable embryo as "our baby". It was both offensive & incredibly patronising at the same time..

It really is. I'd have to disagree with the second part though respectfully, I have and always will think of them as my babies, no matter how far along or soon we lost them. That's honestly just me and my mindset though, which is more than likely due to the fact that we were actively trying for a baby.

6am7f9zxrsjvnb · 14-05-2018 11:23PM

That debate was a clear win for the NO side.
This will be close as a lot of people who don’t agree with the 8th amendment will vote no due to the proposed 12 week legislation.

SusieBlue · 14-05-2018 11:23PM

bubblypop wrote: »

really?
why though?
I am overseas & couldn't watch the debate, what reasons are there to keep the 8th in place?
I honestly haven't seen or heard any

Focusing on the fact that all wanted children in the womb will have no rights if the 8th is repealed.

Lots of talk of blank checks for politicians, how the 8th doesn’t impact the care or health of women, how abortion up till BIRTH will be legal, how some women regret abortions so they should be banned for everyone... I could go on.

lawred2 · 14-05-2018 11:24PM

gandalf wrote: »

Decided not to watch this as Claire Byrne is a lightweight and anytime I've seen her has been unable to manage any sort of debate at all. Add this to the fact RTE are petrified of the Iona Institute and their Opus Dei members especially as they have loads of US evangelist social media funds unspent and itching for a bit of litigation.

If this performance is as bad as your descriptions then this could do the yes campaign a favour and reduce complacency and ensure the youth vote gets out in numbers.

It was pretty bad alright. A weak moderator and a quite clearly stacked audience... Total sh!t show

meeeeh · 14-05-2018 11:24PM

seamusk84 wrote: »

No it was a debate, and they were better prepared to argue their point. That’s what a debate is.
Fail to prepare, prepare to fail for the yes side.

They were prepared to lie and scaremonger. That was the main difference, they used Trump tactics, you throw inaccuracies all over the place and some will stick. They might win because I think a lot of don't know' s are no voters who don't want to admit it.

KaneToad · 14-05-2018 11:24PM

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

I'm watching this on +1, am I the only one who wants to punch the smug face of Maria Steen

You really want to punch a 40 something year old woman in the face? Would you not rather argue against her?

AnneFrank · 14-05-2018 11:24PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Or maybe the medical people were at fault.

Well that certainly played a part with Savita as Mattie discussed

robarmstrong · 14-05-2018 11:24PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Or maybe the medical people were at fault.

Or maybe you should really keep your mouth shut about things you have no clue about, considering it was me sitting down beside my partner whilst all this went wrong, not you.

Bunny Colvin · 14-05-2018 11:25PM

dark crystal wrote: »

They were shouted down. How can you respond to a woman talking about holding a 'fully formed' 14 week foetus in her hand ffs??

Two GP's for the Yes side, at least three on the No side, one of whom got more speaking time than all the pro repeal GP's as a whole.

It was a farce.

Yeah, that was the moment I said 'WTF is going on here'. She's a prime example of the type of people you're dealing with on 'The No' side.

SusieBlue · 14-05-2018 11:26PM

AnneFrank wrote: »

Well that certainly played a part with Savita as Mattie discussed

Yes, crap medical care coupled with the 8th tying hands cause her death.

Mrsmum · 14-05-2018 11:26PM

Just on that debate alone - Yes side seemed a bit shellshocked imo. Only for Mary Lou trying to fight her case, the other two were rubbish. Dr Boylan was so bad, he was an advertisement for the No side and the other lady wasn't up to it at all. No side were good debaters especially hammering home that 97% of abortions aren't rape and ffa and showing that yes side won't discuss the bulk of cases. Lady that regretted her abortion and the nurses that told of working in uk finished off the debate.

TL17 · 14-05-2018 11:26PM

Boooourns wrote:

You've just decided on that programme!! Bloody hell, open your ears a bit more that was an awful show to let it persuade you.

Well I honestly didnt have my mind made up. Not sure I will bother but if I do its a no . We going round in circles for hard cases. Cant make laws on this basis. Seems the only yes argument

retro:electro · 14-05-2018 11:27PM

The audience were absolutely shocking tonight. Hollering and yeppin like they were at a darts match.
Maria Steen doesn’t live in the real world whatsoever.

Lackey · 14-05-2018 11:27PM

Dressing gown wrote: »

You know what that wasn’t a debate it was no campaign airtime.

People on twitter asking for a breakdown of the times given to each side.

14-05-2018 11:27PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Focusing on the fact that all wanted children in the womb will have no rights if the 8th is repealed.

Lots of talk of blank checks for politicians, how the 8th doesn’t impact the care or health of women, how abortion up till BIRTH will be legal, how some women regret abortions so they should be banned for everyone... I could go on.

Oh.My.God.
did the yes side have the wrong people there or what? why were these arguments not thrown out straight away?
I am glad I didn't see it, sounds frustrating! especially the fact that Mary Lou was the best pro repeal speaker there !!!!!!

lawred2 · 14-05-2018 11:27PM

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

dark crystal wrote: »

They were shouted down. How can you respond to a woman talking about holding a 'fully formed' 14 week foetus in her hand ffs??

Two GP's for the Yes side, at least three on the No side, one of whom got more speaking time than all the pro repeal GP's as a whole.

It was a farce.

Yeah, that was the moment I said 'WTF is going on here'. She's a prime example of the type of people you're dealing with on 'The No' side.

There was simply no responding to that. What could anyone say that wasn't utterly dismissive?

That poor girl needed counseling more than a seat at that 'debate'

gmisk · 14-05-2018 11:27PM

gandalf wrote: »

Decided not to watch this as Claire Byrne is a lightweight and anytime I've seen her has been unable to manage any sort of debate at all. Add this to the fact RTE are petrified of the Iona Institute and their Opus Dei members especially as they have loads of US evangelist social media funds unspent and itching for a bit of litigation.

If this performance is as bad as your descriptions then this could do the yes campaign a favour and reduce complacency and ensure the youth vote gets out in numbers.

You made the right choice it was a horrible debate with the no side whopping and clapping and continously interrupting any yes response.

The Late Late Show was balanced and let people speak, Dr Boylan looked frustrated and I don't blame him, I will say Mary Lou played a blinder and she needed too!

Is there many more of these debates to come?
I think I will avoid tbh

Yer Da sells Avon · 14-05-2018 11:28PM

dark crystal wrote: »

Two GP's for the Yes side, at least three on the No side, one of whom got more speaking time than all the pro repeal GP's as a whole.

If it was truly balanced, you would have had maybe four GPs on the Yes side, and one GP and three priests on the No side.

SusieBlue · 14-05-2018 11:28PM

TL17 wrote: »

Well I honestly didnt have my mind made up. Not sure I will bother but if I do its a no . We going round in circles for hard cases. Cant make laws on this basis. Seems the only yes argument

It could be your wife or daughter having one of those ‘hard’ cases in a few years.
Are you saying you’d be happy to have her choices as limited as they are now, if the status quo remains?

mick malones mauser · 14-05-2018 11:28PM

I canvassed against the amendment in 1983 so I am always going to vote yes.
I would like to see more reasoned and rational debate. But it is a lot better now than it was in 83.
I thought the No side "won" tonight's debate and there's no point moaning about it. They are more zealous and managed to "score points " that could sway the undecided.
I dont blame them for that. I would like to see the Yes side play the game a bit more cleverly but perhaps they dont have the same Arsenal of emotive points "I held my baby in my hand ".."there is a boy in the audience who wouldn't be here if it wasnt for the 8th "etc

AnneFrank · 14-05-2018 11:29PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

Or maybe you should really keep your mouth shut about things you have no clue about, considering it was me sitting down beside my partner whilst all this went wrong, not you.

No offence Rob but you bring it up every few pages, I must have read your story 30 times now,so people will
comment

Alf Veedersane · 14-05-2018 11:29PM

As an aside, how was Mattie McGrath elected as a TD?

I'd be handing back my polling card if I voted for him.

lawred2 · 14-05-2018 11:29PM

TL17 wrote: »

Boooourns wrote:

You've just decided on that programme!! Bloody hell, open your ears a bit more that was an awful show to let it persuade you.

Well I honestly didnt have my mind made up. Not sure I will bother but if I do its a no . We going round in circles for hard cases. Cant make laws on this basis. Seems the only yes argument

Yeah those pesky hard cases... Sure let's just ignore them. It's only other people after all. Sure you might not even know them.

Sofiztikated · 14-05-2018 11:30PM

TL17 wrote: »

Well I honestly didnt have my mind made up. Not sure I will bother but if I do its a no . We going round in circles for hard cases. Cant make laws on this basis. Seems the only yes argument

The way I see it is that regardless of yes or no, women will still have abortions.

As it stands, there's up to 14 years in prison. Do you think they should do time for having an abortion?

SusieBlue · 14-05-2018 11:30PM

bubblypop wrote: »

Oh.My.God.
did the yes side have the wrong people there or what? why were these arguments not thrown out straight away?
I am glad I didn't see it, sounds frustrating! especially the fact that Mary Lou was the best pro repeal speaker there !!!!!!

They were shouted over every time they tried. It was honestly the most disappointing, frustrating thing I’ve ever seen.
The Yes side couldn’t even make any of their own points because they spent all their air time trying to refute the latest mistruths thrown out by the No side before being shouted down again.

It was disgraceful.

gmisk · 14-05-2018 11:31PM

lawred2 wrote: »

Yeah those pesky hard cases... Sure let's just ignore them.

Ronan Mullen did his best to... Pretty much saying he would force a raped 12yo to stay pregnant

AnneFrank · 14-05-2018 11:31PM

TL17 wrote: »

Well I honestly didnt have my mind made up. Not sure I will bother but if I do its a no . We going round in circles for hard cases. Cant make laws on this basis. Seems the only yes argument

Don't waste a vote TL, vote no if that's how you feel

neonsofa · 14-05-2018 11:31PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

We've gone through it quite a lot, I think 8 or 9, to be honest I can't remember the exact number as I've lost count, each time we just wait and try again and hope the little sprog implants in the right place. This time around she did and well she'll be here in 9 weeks.

It really is. I'd have to disagree with the second part though respectfully, I have and always will think of them as my babies, no matter how far along or soon we lost them. That's honestly just me and my mindset though, which is more than likely due to the fact that we were actively trying for a baby.

Ah that's great news! All the best to you and your growing family.

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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