8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

RobertKK · 10-05-2018 12:56PM

dudara wrote: »

Why wouldn’t I? People change their minds all the time. As long as he’s open and transparent about it, I have no issue.

So you trust people who look for your help, they make you a promise, you help them, then they back stab you, and you trust them because they changed their opinion, ok...

RobertKK · 10-05-2018 12:57PM

Flying Fox wrote: »

So where is the 6 months coming from Robert? It's by request up to 12 weeks and then for medical reasons after that. Also not "when a woman says" but rather when the doctor assesses.

It is in the proposed legislation. Dr Boylan said the doctor would believe the women.

dudara · 10-05-2018 12:58PM

RobertKK wrote: »

So you trust people who look for your help, they make you a promise, you help them, then they back stab you, and you trust them because they changed their opinion, ok...

You’re a master at misinterpretation and twisting words. That’s not what I said.

RobertKK · 10-05-2018 12:59PM

dudara wrote: »

You’re a master at misinterpretation and twisting words. That’s not what I said.

But that is what Simon Harris did.

dudara · 10-05-2018 12:59PM

RobertKK wrote: »

But that is what Simon Harris did.

That’s what you believe he did. You need to understand the difference between facts and opinions.

10-05-2018 01:00PM

RobertKK wrote: »

It is in the proposed legislation. Dr Boylan said the doctor would believe the women.

It has already been pointed out on this thread that you are misinterpreting his words.

ohnonotgmail · 10-05-2018 01:00PM

RobertKK wrote: »

It is in the proposed legislation. Dr Boylan said the doctor would believe the women.

so we are back to not trusting women again. Is there anybody you do trust?

Sofiztikated · 10-05-2018 01:01PM

AnneFrank wrote: »

if the yes win, i am sure many will choose not to aswell,
thou shall do no harm.

Or here's a line that's actually in the Hippocratic Oath,

“I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous.”

10-05-2018 01:02PM

The lengths the No side go to in order to twist the facts and confuse the public is utterly exasperating.

Zubeneschamali · 10-05-2018 01:03PM

The Floyd p wrote: »

Where are certain pro-life campaigners getting this 6 month time scale from? Has it been mentioned anywhere by any official body or is it speculation?

The only place 6 months comes into it is viability. After 24 weeks, there is an increasing chance of keeping a baby alive.

Something like half can survive at 24 weeks, and maybe a third of the survivors will have significant issues like lung problems, blindness and cognitive issues. After 24 weeks, survival rates go up and morbidity goes down.

The prolifers are pointing out that the proposed legislation has no limits on abortion for the health of the mother, which means abortion would be available up to the point where the fetus is viable and is effectively just delivered super-early.

Of course this is already true of the 8th today, which has no time limit on abortion to save the life of the mother.

pleas advice · 10-05-2018 01:05PM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Dismiss it all as lies and scaremongering
And then when it does turn out to be somewhat true turn around and say 'so what? Her body, her choice. Trust women!'

RobertKK · 10-05-2018 01:08PM

dudara wrote: »

That’s what you believe he did. You need to understand the difference between facts and opinions.

Facts:
Simon Harris writes letter to the prolife movement asking for help with his election.
Simon Harris said he would oppose any abortion legislation.
Simon Harris said he needed to get elected to make this a reality.
Simon Harris gets elected.
Simon Harris votes for suicide as a reason for abortion while still claiming he is prolife. Real prolife members of the party got kicked out including a minister who put principles ahead of career.
Simon Harris has a proposed bill for unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks and then up to 24 weeks.
Simon Harris is campaigning for Yes.
Simon Harris castigates the very people he went to when he first wanted to get elected.

These are all facts, one can deduce from that - Simon Harris is a career politician and lacks principles given he will lie for his career.

It wasnt me123 · 10-05-2018 01:09PM

splinter65 wrote: »

When you say we, who do you mean? You are speaking for HSE in Clonmel?
Clonmel is prepared to take on the entire possible termination of pregnancy services for the whole of Kilkenny Carlow and the whole of Tipperary?
If someone in Kilkenny or Carlow or Thurles or Nenagh on a Medical Card in fact anyone outside of Clonmel has a problem with their GP then you do of course realize that they can’t move their GP at all never mind move to a GP in Clonmel?

We as in the Yes voters of Clonmel - notwithstanding Mattie McGrath there are plenty of us.

There was 68 Tipperary natives who went to the UK in 2016 according to something I read. Say there was 70 in each of the 3 Counties annually. That is 210 for the year, that is just over 4 a week. I think the HSE in Clonmel, or any other town can cope with 4 a week!

You can of course move your GP if you have a medical card - I have done it myself, I'm a diabetic. Its a very easy process, you just need to inform the medical card section of the move, and they get your new gp to sign a form.

You do know that as a Tipperary native, if I had a medical problem while visiting Galway I could get free treatment. A medical card doesn't restrict you to a county for treatment!

You are scaremongering - I suggest to people if you are not obtaining the medical treatment you need/want, you just move gp. Very easy to do, even in rural Ireland - I did it when I thought my child got substandard treatment and it was very easy to do. If your gp doesn't match your expectations, change gp.

Repeal all the way - body autonomy for all

They are talking about the ads for the referendum on Newstalk now

The Floyd p · 10-05-2018 01:10PM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Thanks for the clarification! There's so much misinformation being spread around, it's good to get the facts

ELM327 · 10-05-2018 01:11PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Facts:
Simon Harris writes letter to the prolife movement asking for help with his election.
Simon Harris said he would oppose any abortion legislation.
Simon Harris said he needed to get elected to make this a reality.
Simon Harris gets elected.
Simon Harris votes for suicide as a reason for abortion while still claiming he is prolife. Real prolife members of the party got kicked out including a minister who put principles ahead of career.
Simon Harris has a proposed bill for unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks and then up to 24 weeks.
Simon Harris is campaigning for Yes.
Simon Harris castigates the very people he went to when he first wanted to get elected.

These are all facts, one can deduce from that - Simon Harris is a career politician and lacks principles given he will lie for his career.

Diddums,
is baby upset because his inappropriate posters of Simon Harris were taken down? Naww.

Zubeneschamali · 10-05-2018 01:12PM

AnneFrank wrote: »

thou shall do no harm.

You are mixing up the Ten Commandments (Thou shalt not kill) with a thing that is not in the Hippocratic Oath at all (First, do no harm), and you still seem confused about the fact that Irish doctors do not take that oath in the first place even if that phrase was in it.

ELM327 · 10-05-2018 01:14PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Over a third are women having a second abortion, they aren't all new women.

As is their right.
Under the Irish constitution.

January · 10-05-2018 01:15PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Over a third are women having a second abortion, they aren't all new women.

So?

A woman has over 300 times in her lifetime where she can get pregnant.

seamus · 10-05-2018 01:15PM

RobertKK wrote: »

These are all facts, one can deduce from that - Simon Harris is a career politician and lacks principles given he will lie for his career.

Of course a pro-lifer and a Trumpist would have difficulty understanding that people can change their mind when they are exposed to facts on a topic.

Pro-lifers are utterly immune to facts and reason, so they assume that someone who changes their mind on a topic could only be doing so for nefarious purposes.

Zubeneschamali · 10-05-2018 01:15PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Simon Harris votes for suicide as a reason for abortion while still claiming he is prolife.

The prolife movement cooked up the 8th and then voted it into our constitution, which is what made suicide a legal reason for abortion in the first place. It was not a reason before the 8th.

The prolife movement created suicide as a legal reason for abortion.

It wasnt me123 · 10-05-2018 01:17PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Itwasntme123 is insisting that anyone who cannot get an abortion in Kilkenny should come to Clonmel.
Likewise itwasntme123 insists (read the post) that if your GP is on the no abortion list that you must transfer to a GP in Clonmel.
I’ve pointed out that that’s not possible at all for public patients.
I’ve asked itwasntme123 to confirm that he/she is speaking on behalf of public health services in Clonmel.
I think I’m perfectly clear. What exactly do you not understand and I’ll clarify?

i answered above - I speak on behalf of the yes voters in Clonmel - I don't work for the HSE. As a citizen of Ireland and a resident of Clonmel I am more than happy for any body visiting Clonmel to visit the hospital for medical treatment if you so need.

You don't have to transfer to a gp in Clonmel, you can go to any outpatients in Ireland and get treatment.

And I didn't insist that people come to Clonmel, I invited them! I responded to a post you said that where will the people in KK go if they can't go to KK hospital. I offered them an alternative.

You are being argumentative - no need, though we need legal abortions in Ireland for so many reasons, I am not expecting hundreds of thousands of women to descend on Clonmel screaming for abortions. Chill

ELM327 · 10-05-2018 01:17PM

seamus wrote: »

Of course a pro-lifer and a Trumpist would have difficulty understanding that people can change their mind when they are exposed to facts on a topic.

Pro-lifers are utterly immune to facts and reason, so they assume that someone who changes their mind on a topic could only be doing so for nefarious purposes.

This is not about Trump though, lets not give them another diversion.
I've been a solid Trump supporter since 2016 and before. It's completely irrelevant to this debate.

Solidly agree on the rest of your post though.

RobertKK · 10-05-2018 01:18PM

January wrote: »

So?

Over 300 periods in a woman's lifetime.

I deleted the post in question, but I think it is about 38% of abortion are women who had a second abortion.
Some people use stats and make out they are all unique women, when that isn't the case.

RobertKK · 10-05-2018 01:20PM

On the news, claim that the US based fundraising site for the TogetherForYes campaign went down for 30 minutes yesterday due to a cyber attack from Ireland.

ELM327 · 10-05-2018 01:20PM

RobertKK wrote: »

I deleted the post in question, but I think it is about 38% of abortion are women who had a second abortion.
Some people use stats and make out they are all unique women, when that isn't the case.

If there was a small subset of women who had 10, that's no reason to block it for everyone.
And it's certainly no need to provide a substandard healthcare to women.

It wasnt me123 · 10-05-2018 01:21PM

splinter65 wrote: »

You need to catch up on the thread. Also public patients wanting a surgical abortion on the public system will need to be referred by their GP. ( I foolishly assume you know this).
Advising, no insisting,(as this poster has) that public patients who’s GP will exercise their right to not engage with abortion services that they can all transfer to GPs in Clonmel, and that Clonmel hospital will see them all, is just priceless.

You are deliberately being foolish - and I will report your above post.

I invited, invited people to Clonmel as an alternative to KK - you don't need to swap gps to avail of medical services in different parts of ireland if you are visiting them. You can go to an outpatients department / emergency department in any hospital in the land.

stop scaremongoring and making stuff up - you're the one who is priceless. Cop yourself on

ELM327 · 10-05-2018 01:22PM

RobertKK wrote: »

On the news, claim that the US based fundraising site for the TogetherForYes campaign went down for 30 minutes yesterday due to a cyber attack from Ireland.

https://www.rte.ie/news/eighth-amendment/2018/0510/962545-together-for-yes-campaign/

Where were you yesterday robert?

gmisk · 10-05-2018 01:25PM

RobertKK wrote: »

On the news, claim that the US based fundraising site for the TogetherForYes campaign went down for 30 minutes yesterday due to a cyber attack from Ireland.

What odds about where the fundraising provider are based?

The save8 website is built by NationBuilder a US based company!

THE HORRORS!

Well it didnt really do too much damage did it? Its now at over 88k (the target was 50k!)

splinter65 · 10-05-2018 01:29PM

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

We as in the Yes voters of Clonmel - notwithstanding Mattie McGrath there are plenty of us.

There was 68 Tipperary natives who went to the UK in 2016 according to something I read. Say there was 70 in each of the 3 Counties annually. That is 210 for the year, that is just over 4 a week. I think the HSE in Clonmel, or any other town can cope with 4 a week!

You can of course move your GP if you have a medical card - I have done it myself, I'm a diabetic. Its a very easy process, you just need to inform the medical card section of the move, and they get your new gp to sign a form.

You do know that as a Tipperary native, if I had a medical problem while visiting Galway I could get free treatment. A medical card doesn't restrict you to a county for treatment!

You are scaremongering - I suggest to people if you are not obtaining the medical treatment you need/want, you just move gp. Very easy to do, even in rural Ireland - I did it when I thought my child got substandard treatment and it was very easy to do. If your gp doesn't match your expectations, change gp.

Repeal all the way - body autonomy for all

They are talking about the ads for the referendum on Newstalk now

So you are alleging that someone living in Kilkenny or Thurles or Nenagh or Carlow on a medical card can simply complete the change of doctor form to move form their own local GP to a GP in Clonmel and Client Registration in Finglas will facilitate that?
For a start there are 7 practices in our town and none are taking new patients at all never mind transfers

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=26135

Also medical cards simply don’t allow you to move to a GP at all that is any distance from your home.
And are refusing all transfers even with easy reach because most of it was completely unnecessary and is a huge cost to the taxpayer.
Being on the Vote Yes team in Clonmel doesn’t allow you to encourage people in Tipperary Carlow and Kilkenny to converge on GPs in Clonmel.
Very bad advice. Quite dangerous.

Zerbini Blewitt · 10-05-2018 01:31PM

gmisk wrote: »

Can someone who is more clued in than me respond to this genuine question?
My understanding is that there will only be access to an abortion after 12 weeks if the mothers life is at risk, FFA etc, but I could be wrong.

It seems to have got lost in the nonsense.

I see the 24 weeks has been explained already. After 12 weeks, in addition to the ones you mention above, it can also be for the health of the woman.

Which caters for cases like Savita @17 weeks (i.e. no more dangerous, senseless 'await events' lunacy).

I heard an anti-choicer on local radio today scare-mongering about this specific reason. She was saying this is the grounds for nearly all the UK terminations.

In effect, she was denying that the health grounds after 12 weeks is required AT ALL - therefore vote NO.

In other words, let the next Savita case happen (it's not real after all apparently).

My anger at the callous, criminal lies from the anti-choice side is rising to danger levels.

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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