8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

swampgas · 10-05-2018 12:10PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The US is a different planet. Most of the pro-life activity HERE is American funded
precisely because Mullen and co. pitch it to them that we are the first country with positive rights for the unborn in our Constitution and a model for prolifers everywhere. This was in fact one of the motivations for the mad wording of the 8th which has caused so much trouble.

Once they lose (maybe this time, maybe next), the Americans will have less reason to fund them here. Might as well spend the cash in the US at that point.

You'd have to wonder just how dependent Iona's full time staffer's are on US money to pay their wages. If repealing the 8th led eventually to the Ionanists having to shut up shop, that would be just peachy.

ELM327 · 10-05-2018 12:10PM

RobertKK wrote: »

No aren't looking for shame and secrecy with a No vote.

No simply believes that the 8th has served this country well with lower maternity deaths than the UK with an abortion regime that supposedly saves lives.

No believes in the right to life all human life, not just some.

No believes what is proposed is bad for Irish society, as it is abortion for any reason at all, it is not restricted however much the Yes side try and spin that it is.

The 12th and 13th amendment calls, they want to remind you that they passed by majority vote to constitutionally enshrine the right of every Irish women to an abortion. With no time limit, other than that of the country they intend to travel to.

....... · 10-05-2018 12:10PM

This post has been deleted.

gmisk · 10-05-2018 12:10PM

RobertKK wrote: »

The glee from the Yes campaign and Yes people here is they know their side had a crap online campaign and they are appreciative of the help from the US giant that is Google.
There would be crying and gnashing of teeth here if it had happened to the Yes side.
Even the media which is biased toward Yes, admits what Google has done favours Yes.
Google claiming they didn't want to interfere in the referendum, interfered given they knew what they were doing favoured Yes when they made the decision.
This is what people here are missing, it would be no different if An Post came out today and said they were delivering no more referendum literature with the Yes campaign already having spent money on producing 1.6 million leaflets for every household, which are to be sent out next week.
The No side had already spent money on producing the ads which were to be shown next week and the week after, what will Google refund? The money they were paid for the advertising, or will they also pay the entire cost of producing the videos that were to be shown?

Changing policy during a referendum which favours one side is interference, especially right before the ads were to be shown.
It doesn't do the Yes side any favours as it raises questions about what is going on behind the scenes that something was done to favour one side over another. It isn't democratic either when it happened at this stage of the referendum when campaigns had their strategies all set and with campaigns entering the final stretch, there is nothing illegal with Irish advertisers using Google to campaign for No.
Yes welcomed it but maybe it will backfire as people view it as interference by Google.

They did it to stop interference....especially when it comes to untraceable money from abroad being poured into online adverts, videos etc.
It effects both campaigns, Yes campaign had began raising money for online advertising etc (87k at last count) - this money will have to be used in other channels.

There are still plenty of (hopefully more regulated!) channels open to both campaigns.

ELM327 · 10-05-2018 12:11PM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

11% of those surveyed wanted more than 12 weeks.
It's a small minority. But then again so is 27-30%, which is what the NO campaign are at.

robarmstrong · 10-05-2018 12:11PM

RobertKK wrote: »

No aren't looking for shame and secrecy with a No vote.

No simply believes that the 8th has served this country well with lower maternity deaths than the UK with an abortion regime that supposedly saves lives.

No believes in the right to life all human life, not just some.

No believes what is proposed is bad for Irish society, as it is abortion for any reason at all, it is not restricted however much the Yes side try and spin that it is.

No are looking to push the problem onto our neighbouring country with a No vote.

No wrongly believes the 8th has served the country well with lower maternity deaths because they wrongly consider maternity deaths to be the pinnacle of maternity care.

No believes in forcing women into giving birth or fleeing the country to have an abortion.

No wrongly believes what is proposed is bad for Irish society, as they can't seem to grasp that it is safer for these women to have abortions here, than in another country.

Am I doing it right there Bob?

RobertKK · 10-05-2018 12:12PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The 8th has cost lives. Or are you still denying that? Now perhaps you can answer the question I asked? How has the 8th contributed positively to those figures?

That is a lie though.

What is costing more women their lives in the UK who have a higher maternal mortality rate?
The lack of abortion?

With the 8th the doctors seem to be better at their job.

10-05-2018 12:12PM

splinter65 wrote: »

What who you refer to as the no people will continue to campaign against will be the almost instant call to increase the week limit to at least the UK limit of 24 weeks.
Yes, these “silly” people who don’t want unborn children aborted at 24 weeks will continue to wave “silly” placards about, you’ll just have to get over it.

What calls to increase the limit to 24 weeks? There are none. Typical scaremongering from the No side. 12 weeks is the norm around Europe and there's no mad push to change this.

ELM327 · 10-05-2018 12:12PM

RobertKK wrote: »

That is a lie though.

What is costing more women their lives in the UK who have a higher maternal mortality rate?
The lack of abortion?

With the 8th the doctors seem to be better at their job.

100% of women that are pregnant on mars do not have a successful pregnancy.

See, we can twist statistics too.

RobertKK · 10-05-2018 12:13PM

robarmstrong wrote: »

No are looking to push the problem onto our neighbouring country with a No vote.

No wrongly believes the 8th has served the country well with lower maternity deaths because they wrongly consider maternity deaths to be the pinnacle of maternity care.

No believes in forcing women into giving birth or fleeing the country to have an abortion.

No wrongly believes what is proposed is bad for Irish society, as they can't seem to grasp that it is safer for these women to have abortions here, than in another country.

Am I doing it right there Bob?

Why are humans lives considered a problem?
Should all human lives that are considered a 'problem' be terminated?

RobertKK · 10-05-2018 12:13PM

ELM327 wrote: »

100% of women that are pregnant on mars do not have a successful pregnancy.

See, we can twist statistics too.

Because you have to use that as you have no proper argument.

pitifulgod · 10-05-2018 12:13PM

AnneFrank wrote: »

They do not become Dr's to cause harm, i also know Dr's who have read the oath by the way.
What if the Dr decided not to see a patient because of their views ?
It simply wouldn't happen

Doctors are not required to offer abortions. Many will choose to because they have no issue with them.

ohnonotgmail · 10-05-2018 12:14PM

RobertKK wrote: »

No aren't looking for shame and secrecy with a No vote.

No simply believes that the 8th has served this country well with lower maternity deaths than the UK with an abortion regime that supposedly saves lives.

No believes in the right to life all human life, not just some.

No believes what is proposed is bad for Irish society, as it is abortion for any reason at all, it is not restricted however much the Yes side try and spin that it is.

RobertKK wrote: »

That is a lie though.

What is costing more women their lives in the UK who have a higher maternal mortality rate?
The lack of abortion?

With the 8th the doctors seem to be better at their job.

I'll ask you again as you seem to keep ignoring it. How has the 8th contributed positively to our maternity death rate?

kylith · 10-05-2018 12:14PM

RobertKK wrote: »

The glee from the Yes campaign and Yes people here is they know their side had a crap online campaign and they are appreciative of the help from the US giant that is Google.
There would be crying and gnashing of teeth here if it had happened to the Yes side.

It has happened to the Yes side, Robert. Google's not showing ads from anyone.

Now stop whinging about it, it's tiresome.

robarmstrong · 10-05-2018 12:14PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Why are humans lives considered a problem?
Should all human lives that are considered a 'problem' be terminated?

Should all women be forced to give birth to align themselves with your archaic and misogynistic view?

robarmstrong · 10-05-2018 12:16PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Because you have to use that as you have no proper argument.

That's ironic coming from someone who actually has no proper argument.

Consistently inconsistent you are Bob, keep it up.

January · 10-05-2018 12:17PM

The No side are all NIMBY's and that's a fact. I don't see one of them trying to campaign to repeal the 12th and 13th amendments to the constitution.

Can't stop women travelling sure...

ELM327 · 10-05-2018 12:19PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Because you have to use that as you have no proper argument.

[sings, tune is "in a rich man's world]
If I had a little NIMBY,
Just a NIMBY,
Im in a no voter's world.[/sings]

RobertKK · 10-05-2018 12:21PM

RobertKK wrote: »

It is is even said in the pro repeal Irish Times that what Google has done is unprecedented and without a proper explanation.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/google-abortion-vote-ad-ban-unprecedented-so-why-did-they-do-it-1.3489617?mode=amp

The same article said the No side had this planned since last year so to do this two weeks before the referendum without any reason is foreign influence as Google knew this all along. It was a move done to favour the Yes campaign.

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Let the Irish Times explain it to you...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/google-abortion-vote-ad-ban-unprecedented-so-why-did-they-do-it-1.3489617?mode=amp

Google’s decision to ban all ads relating to the abortion referendum is a significant departure for the tech multinational and an important moment in the referendum campaign.

It is a blow to the No side, which had planned an intensification of an already heavy online advertising campaign in the closing weeks of the campaign before polling day on May 25th.

But there is no doubt that the move is a significant blow to the campaign. Since last year its strategists had planned a wave of late online advertising targeting undecided and soft Yes voters.

If you wanted further evidence of whom the Google move favours, look no further than the reaction of Yes campaigners and supporters, who wholeheartedly welcomed and applauded the decision.

The reasons for the decision, however, remain a mystery. Google declined to supply any rationale, or to answer a series of detailed questions from The Irish Times.

Sensitivity

What is certainly true is that it is a departure by the company, which has never done anything like this before, and indicates its sensitivity to charges of interference, or even wielding undue power in the democratic process.

The Yes side are not affected since their campaign is based on the 20th century, and that is where they want the No campaign to be too, so they welcomed it.

pitifulgod · 10-05-2018 12:21PM

RobertKK wrote: »

That is a lie though.

What is costing more women their lives in the UK who have a higher maternal mortality rate?
The lack of abortion?

With the 8th the doctors seem to be better at their job.

You do realise that the countries ahead of us have pretty open abortion rights? You do realise that women travel to have abortions because they can't get life saving treatments? We've given you cases but you label every one of them as hard cases. If you have cancer and are pregnant, you are far more limited in terms of options unless you opt for an abortion. These are facts.

RobertKK wrote: »

Let the Irish Times explain it to you...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/google-abortion-vote-ad-ban-unprecedented-so-why-did-they-do-it-1.3489617?mode=amp

I'm really not feeling sympathy for McGuirk who has literally wrecked his own campaign. He's attempted to horrify and he has threatened those who have exposed incidents of fake midwives for example. But Robert, you're pretty apathetic to fake news from no campaign, aren't you?

RobertKK · 10-05-2018 12:25PM

pitifulgod wrote: »

You do realise that the countries ahead of us have pretty open abortion rights? You do realise that women travel to have abortions because they can't get life saving treatments? We've given you cases but you label every one of them as hard cases. If you have cancer and are pregnant, you are far more limited in terms of options unless you opt for an abortion. These are facts.

What is costing more pregnant women their lives in the UK? It is hardly the 8th amendment...
Yes people here use the 8th amendment as an accuse to peddle lies.

SusieBlue · 10-05-2018 12:25PM

The No side care more about their morals and opinions being inflicted on the whole of society than they do about the lives of the women and families their vote is directly impacting.
They are controlling people who care more about potential people than those that are living their lives around them.

They have proved over and over again that they are comfortable with handing the "hard cases" up willingly as collateral damage to keep the "bad" abortions out of Ireland, with pretty much zero concern (again) for the lives of living breathing citizens it will effect.

They ignore the fact that abortion has always been in Ireland, and always will be in Ireland, because they feel they are social justice warriors saving the lives of the unborn by stopping their slutty mothers for aborting them for "lifestyle" and "convenience" reasons.

They are happy to ignore the massive problem this causes and the compromised maternity care we provide, because other peoples suffering is worth it so that they can proudly declare that Ireland is an abortion free country.

Exporting the issue is of no concern to them, so long as Irish women don't abort Irish babies in Ireland, its all good.

gmisk · 10-05-2018 12:25PM

RobertKK wrote: »

The Yes side are not affected since their campaign is based on the 20th century, and that is where they want the No campaign to be too, so they welcomed it.

So you are accusing the Yes campaign of attempting to drag Ireland back into the past?....thats a tad ironic....

This referendum along with the SSM referendum might actually help in dragging ireland into the 21st century if anything IMO!

robarmstrong · 10-05-2018 12:26PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes people here use the 8th amendment as an accuse to peddle lies.

You're one to accuse people about peddling lies.

The sheer irony of this post.

NuMarvel · 10-05-2018 12:27PM

RobertKK wrote: »

That is a lie though.

What is costing more women their lives in the UK who have a higher maternal mortality rate?
The lack of abortion?

With the 8th the doctors seem to be better at their job.

The difference in maternal mortality rate between Ireland and the UK is something like 2.5 out of 100,000, or 0.0025%. The people who compile and analyse this data have said this difference is not statistically significant. Especially when you consider their population is 13 the size of ours. What's more, there is absolutely no evidence that the 8th or our abortion laws are in anyway responsible for this tiny variance. You may as well attribute any variance to the euro currency as to the 8th.

pitifulgod · 10-05-2018 12:27PM

RobertKK wrote: »

What is costing more pregnant women their lives in the UK? It is hardly the 8th amendment...
People here use the 8th amendment as an accuse to peddle lies.

Can you point out where I have lied? It is a fact that you are prevented from plenty of treatments if you are pregnant. If there is no immediate risk to life, you cannot get treated. Women travel for abortions in those scenarios and it's well documented. Maybe cop on in relation to implying I'm a liar when these are facts.

RobertKK · 10-05-2018 12:30PM

gmisk wrote: »

So you are accusing the Yes campaign of attempting to drag Ireland back into the past?....thats a tad ironic....

This referendum along with the SSM referendum might actually help in dragging ireland into the 21st century if anything IMO!

The prolife view will become like the anti-capital punishment movement where not killing is viewed as progressive.

The Floyd p · 10-05-2018 12:31PM

I'm not trying to stir anything, more just looking for clarity on one aspect of this debate.

Where are certain pro-life campaigners getting this 6 month time scale from? Has it been mentioned anywhere by any official body or is it speculation?

robarmstrong · 10-05-2018 12:31PM

RobertKK wrote: »

The prolife view will become like the anti-capital punishment movement where not killing is viewed as progressive.

What's the euromillions numbers?

Only asking because you must have knowledge of the future.

Or yano, you're just speculating again.

RobertKK · 10-05-2018 12:32PM

pitifulgod wrote: »

Can you point out where I have lied? It is a fact that you are prevented from plenty of treatments if you are pregnant. If there is no immediate risk to life, you cannot get treated. Women travel for abortions in those scenarios and it's well documented. Maybe cop on in relation to implying I'm a liar when these are facts.

There are lies in this thread that the 8th cost lives, yet people are unable to explain why the UK has a higher death toll of pregnant women.

8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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