So my car needs a new engine..

grogi · 09-05-2018 01:01PM

Deleted User wrote: »

As far as I am aware (I'm an L plater when it comes to DPFs, etc.) my car hasn't been mechanically interfered with. The DPF etc. is still physically there. It's just, as has been said above, 'mapped out'.

That's simply not possible.

In relation to cancer, I'd be hard pressed to think of anything that doesn't give you cancer. Eating too many bananas will give you cancer. Sitting down will give you cancer. Using your phone will give you cancer, etc. I'll take my chances with my car as it is and I'll take the uneducated guess that every diesel engine was giving cancer long before 'mainstream' cars got DPFs fitted.

Ok. Increases the probability... Better?

And it is not affecting you directly. Gutting one car from DPF does not make any significant difference. But if that is a common practice, it does increase the rate of occurrence of the cancer. There are no guarantees that one person will get one - but the chances increase.

09-05-2018 01:09PM

grogi wrote: »

That's simply not possible. .........

Yeah, presumably the filter casing is still there but it's been gutted and whatever required simulated signal is still being sent to the ECU.

Anjobe · 09-05-2018 01:36PM

Deleted User wrote: »

In relation to cancer, I'd be hard pressed to think of anything that doesn't give you cancer. Eating too many bananas will give you cancer. Sitting down will give you cancer. Using your phone will give you cancer, etc. I'll take my chances with my car as it is and I'll take the uneducated guess that every diesel engine was giving cancer long before 'mainstream' cars got DPFs fitted.

I have to say I hate this argument. The cancer causing effects of diesel exhaust fumes have been extensively researched and it has been known since 2012 that diesel exhaust definitely causes lung cancer (https://www.iarc.fr/en/media-centre/iarcnews/2012/mono105-info.php). The WHO categorizes diesel exhaust as a group 1 human carcinogen, the same group as plutonium. I don't think mobile phones and bananas are in that group. The report linked there estimates that the lung cancer risk is increased by as much as 40% in those with a high level of diesel exhaust exposure (truck drivers, railway workers etc).

bear1 · 09-05-2018 01:58PM

Christ almighty, the guy had the DPF removed and now the thread is descending into a load of bollocks regarding cancer and emissions.
I also don't have the DPF in the car and I'm happier that way. It can't break leaving me open to a massive repair cost which is what a new DPF would cost.

Gravelly · 09-05-2018 02:00PM

bear1 wrote: »

Christ almighty, the guy had the DPF removed and now the thread is descending into a load of bollocks regarding cancer and emissions.
I also don't have the DPF in the car and I'm happier that way. It can't break leaving me open to a massive repair cost which is what a new DPF would cost.

Apparently driving without one is the same as driving along tossing plutonium out the window :rolleyes:

listermint · 09-05-2018 02:04PM

bear1 wrote: »

Christ almighty, the guy had the DPF removed and now the thread is descending into a load of bollocks regarding cancer and emissions.
I also don't have the DPF in the car and I'm happier that way. It can't break leaving me open to a massive repair cost which is what a new DPF would cost.

tbf as soon as the NCT can check for this and get those junkers off the road the better.

Its absolute f'rs like yourself what i have to sit behind in traffic blowing your disgusting smelly fumes out the arse of your car into the car behind you.

Im sure youve sat behind a ****e diesel car with no DPF in stationary traffic. Never mind the cancer argument.

Savage crack isnt it.....

I have a Diesel and i wont be taking the DPF out. Hope the NCT start cracking down on it big time because its due.

bear1 · 09-05-2018 02:20PM

listermint wrote: »

tbf as soon as the NCT can check for this and get those junkers off the road the better.

Its absolute f'rs like yourself what i have to sit behind in traffic blowing your disgusting smelly fumes out the arse of your car into the car behind you.

Im sure youve sat behind a ****e diesel car with no DPF in stationary traffic. Never mind the cancer argument.

Savage crack isnt it.....

I have a Diesel and i wont be taking the DPF out. Hope the NCT start cracking down on it big time because its due.

So you're now going down the insulting path. Good lad yourself.
I'm not in Ireland so you aren't sitting behind me at all. Maybe I have and how would I know?
In fact how would you know?
Good for you but you can try and make an argument without resulting to petty nonsense such as your post.

grogi · 09-05-2018 02:22PM

Gravelly wrote: »

Apparently driving without one is the same as driving along tossing plutonium out the window :rolleyes:

There is a slight different - plutonium decays on its own...

grogi · 09-05-2018 02:26PM

Augeo wrote: »

Yeah, presumably the filter casing is still there but it's been gutted and whatever required simulated signal is still being sent to the ECU.

The case is there (it is an instant NCT fail if it isn't), but the guts of it (typically in a form of honeycomb mesh) are removed. That improves the exhaust flow and reduces pressure there, especially if the old filter was ashed out.

Additionally the ECU is reprogrammed to never start the active regeneration (increasing the exhaust temperature) regardless of what the pressure sensors are feeding it.

listermint · 09-05-2018 02:27PM

bear1 wrote: »

So you're now going down the insulting path. Good lad yourself.
I'm not in Ireland so you aren't sitting behind me at all. Maybe I have and how would I know?
In fact how would you know?
Good for you but you can try and make an argument without resulting to petty nonsense such as your post.

Petty nonsense?

The folks that remove the DPF arent concerned about anyone but themselves. They dont care what crap is pumping into the AC system of the car behind them not a jot in the world. Its all about the bottom line cost to repair.

Its a classic symptom in Ireland where the majority couldnt care of the car was held together with a ball of twine as long as it past the NCT. There was a good thread on it yesterday actually.

Im all for your car being taken off the road until the DPF is replaced. I hope the NCT starts catching them. Spewers is all they are.

grogi · 09-05-2018 02:29PM

listermint wrote: »

Im all for your car being taken off the road until the DPF is replaced. I hope the NCT starts catching them. Spewers is all they are.

Unfortunately it is not that easy. If the case is in place and the engine is relatively healthy, it will not generate a significant amount of soot - it is very difficult to catch those with and without DPF.

The main difference occurs during road conditions under heavy acceleration, when the soot point is reached. But to replicate that the NCT would need to do full-load test (not on the idle).

bear1 · 09-05-2018 02:47PM

listermint wrote: »

Petty nonsense?

The folks that remove the DPF arent concerned about anyone but themselves. They dont care what crap is pumping into the AC system of the car behind them not a jot in the world. Its all about the bottom line cost to repair.

Its a classic symptom in Ireland where the majority couldnt care of the car was held together with a ball of twine as long as it past the NCT. There was a good thread on it yesterday actually.

Im all for your car being taken off the road until the DPF is replaced. I hope the NCT starts catching them. Spewers is all they are.

Right, so you're saying that soot is being pumped into the AC system of the car behind? Wtf are you on about?
Your DPF breaks, garage quotes 1k plus to put a new one in. You do it and not long after it goes again and another 1k.
You're saying people should think of others and fork out constantly? What if I just want a pre-DPF car? What difference does it make?
You're sitting behind (apparently you sit behind a lot of diesel cars) an old school diesel, should this car be removed from the road cause it doesn't have a DPF?
What about regeneration? Where everything in the system is burnt (it's hoped) and fecked out into atmosphere?

grogi · 09-05-2018 03:06PM

bear1 wrote: »

Right, so you're saying that soot is being pumped into the AC system of the car behind? Wtf are you on about?
Your DPF breaks, garage quotes 1k plus to put a new one in. You do it and not long after it goes again and another 1k.
You're saying people should think of others and fork out constantly?

It really is very simple - people should not be driving a car they cannot keep in good condition. If the DPF keeps belling up - there is something wrong with the car.

What if I just want a pre-DPF car? What difference does it make?

Pre-2008 cars are already getting scraped - rust, motor tax etc.

You're sitting behind (apparently you sit behind a lot of diesel cars) an old school diesel, should this car be removed from the road cause it doesn't have a DPF?

No. But no more cars without DPF should be put on the roads. What is there right now is allowed to stay and die out naturally.

What about regeneration? Where everything in the system is burnt (it's hoped) and fecked out into atmosphere?

The amount of additional CO2 produced during regeneration is absolutely harmless.

dieselbug · 09-05-2018 03:07PM

Food for thought:)

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-03714-9

Op

I hope your car continues on for a million miles, you deserve a break.

Why not post a picture of her and we can all drool. Happy motoring.

grogi · 09-05-2018 03:09PM

dieselbug wrote: »

Food for thought:)

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-03714-9

We'll put GPF into the turbocharged petrol cars and the emissions will be completely different...

fancy pigeon · 09-05-2018 03:12PM

grogi wrote: »

We'll put GPF into the turbocharged petrol cars and the emissions will be completely different...

Thought they had them already...

bear1 · 09-05-2018 03:19PM

grogi wrote: »

It really is very simple - people should not be driving a car they cannot keep in good condition. If the DPF keeps belling up - there is something wrong with the car.

Pre-2008 cars are already getting scraped - rust, motor tax etc.

No. But no more cars without DPF should be put on the roads. What is there right now is allowed to stay and die out naturally.

The amount of additional CO2 produced during regeneration is absolutely harmless.

Can you point out who is scrapping pre-08 cars due to motor tax?
No, during the regeneration the Nox can as much as double during the burning off of the soot and this is a major contributor to air pollution.
Hardly harmless

grogi · 09-05-2018 03:23PM

fancy pigeon wrote: »

Thought they had them already...

The cars quoted in Nature did not.

grogi · 09-05-2018 03:28PM

bear1 wrote: »

Can you point out who is scrapping pre-08 cars due to motor tax?

Loads of people. Sure, as long as it goes it is kept. But a bigger repair job can make the whole enterprise senseless and the car is scraped.

bear1 wrote: »

No, during the regeneration the Nox can as much as double during the burning off of the soot and this is a major contributor to air pollution.
Hardly harmless

That increase is minimal too and simply a cost of almost completely reducing PM emission.

Let's do simple calculation:

Let's say you regenerate every 10 hours of driving (500 km at 50km/h - that's the average you'd get driving back roads and a bit of city) for 5 minutes. Both are reasonable assumptions IMHO (I've seen regen happening every 1000 km when on motorway - so I am not bending the truth here)...

So instead of 600 units (one unit per minute) of NOx you would generate 595 units (595 minutes wihtout regen) of NOx plus 5 minutes of double NOx (5 minutes with regen) - thus 605 units in total... Not even 1% increase... But on the plus side you've removed more than 99% of PM.

Removing EGR can increase the NOx emission... 20 times or more (2000%)!

To sum up:
- gutting DFP - increasing the PM emission 100x or even more. (the DPF removes at least 99% of PM).
- gutting EGR - increasing the NOx emission over 20x...

bear1 · 09-05-2018 03:35PM

grogi wrote: »

That increase is minimal too and simply a cost of almost completely reducing PM emission.

Let's do simple calculation:

Let's say you regenerate every 10 hours of driving (500 km at 50km/h - that's the average you'd get driving back roads and a bit of city) for 5 minutes. Both are reasonable assumptions IMHO (I've seen regen happening every 1000 km when on motorway - so I am not bending the truth here)...

So instead of 600 units (one unit per minute) of NOx you would generate 595 units (595 minutes wihtout regen) of NOx plus 5 minutes of double NOx (5 minutes with regen) - thus 605 units in total... Not even 1% increase...

Removing EGR can increase the NOx emission... 40 times (4000%)!

To sum up:
- gutting DFP - increasing the PM emission 100x or even more. (the DPF removes at least 99% of PM).
- gutting EGR - increasing the NOx emission over 20x...

Well done mate...

It still doesn't mask the fact that all that soot and crap that isn't being released into the atmosphere is being trapped within a filter under the car.
Every so often that soot needs to be burnt off and that burnt off crap gets released into the atmosphere and not as harmless co2.
I don't get why you are being snarky with your "well done mate" but you can't simply say that keeping the DPF and letting it throw soot out every so often is harmless compared to removing it completely.
You could argue that the EU and Government pushed most of the continent into buying diesel to save the planet and then put enormous pressure on manufacturers to keep rates low but yet VW and a host of others cheated and the rest ended up buying cars for cheap tax even though they did feck all kms.

Loads of people are scrapping cars due to the pre-08 tax.. what a load of bollocks.

grogi · 09-05-2018 03:39PM

bear1 wrote: »

It still doesn't mask the fact that all that soot and crap that isn't being released into the atmosphere is being trapped within a filter under the car.
Every so often that soot needs to be burnt off and that burnt off crap gets released into the atmosphere and not as harmless co2.

You seem not to get the whole idea of DPF.

When the trapped soot burns, it is CO2 (and as you correctly pointed out - a small bit of NOx) released. So instead of heaps of cancerous PM you are releasing harmless CO2 and minimally increase NOx emission. I am not sure about the order - but that additonal NOx could be reduced in SCR reaction with AdBlue.

I don't get why you are being snarky with your "well done mate" but you can't simply say that keeping the DPF and letting it throw soot out every so often is harmless compared to removing it completely.

Because I know what I am talking about? DPF will not throw soot out.

You could argue that the EU and Government pushed most of the continent into buying diesel to save the planet

That was the idea - but it was based on incomplete data.

and then put enormous pressure on manufacturers to keep rates low but yet VW and a host of others cheated and the rest ended up buying cars for cheap tax even though they did feck all kms.

Manufacturers put the pressure themselves - they wanted to keep selling diesel cars, but keep the research and production costs low.

What this even have to do with DPF?!

Esel · 09-05-2018 07:34PM

My eyes need a new thread.

Black_Knight · 06-06-2018 11:23AM

Anyone else get an email notification for this, but the post is missing?

Bummer on the update KKV. You've far too much patience with that garage. They seem pretty incompetent.

jca · 06-06-2018 11:28AM

Black_Knight wrote: »

Anyone else get an email notification for this, but the post is missing?

Bummer on the update KKV. You've far too much patience with that garage. They seem pretty incompetent.

I got it too but no sign of the post. I think that's unfair to call the garage incompetent, it could easily be the master cylinder that has failed.

06-06-2018 11:29AM

Righty oh folks. When the engine was replaced the first time around, they put a new clutch in (and clutch kit is written on the receipt i have, with the 12 month warranty).

Driving home from Dublin last night and i pressed the clutch, and it never came back up to me. Stuck to the floor. Had to leave the car and get a taxi home. Taxi Driver attempted to get it going again for me but to no avail. His guess was a cylinder or some such had gone.

My questions are, is this something the engine crowd would be taking responsibility for? Although I'm aware they are a consumable part, I've never had a clutch issue before, and this was out of nowhere (even the gear change before the clutch went was smooth and fine with no real issues at all).

I'm a little peeved now to be honest. I presume it'd be reasonable to request my taxi fee back at the least, but this has me doubting the quality of work now in the first place. This is the 2nd time the car will have been back to them, and it's only what, 6 weeks or so that I got it back off them. :rolleyes:

Not sure what direction to go in now. Don't have the cash lying around to buy another car. I still like the C5 and it suits my work perfectly. But it's not worth anything so won't fetch much as a trade-in either.

EDIT: The car is still sitting in Dublin (hopefully hasn't been towed by dublin Council or gardai or such!) and Dalys (The engine crowd) are towing it to their place today.

06-06-2018 11:40AM

Deleted User wrote: »

.............

Not sure what direction to go in now. Don't have the cash lying around to buy another car. I still like the C5 and it suits my work perfectly. But it's not worth anything so won't fetch much as a trade-in either.

...........

Garage should do the repair required under warranty. If it's a dodgy part than it's their problem.

If you are operating as a Ltd company and still doing loads of work miles I can't see why you wouldn't borrow a few quid.

Otherwise just drive on in the C5.

ednwireland · 06-06-2018 11:43AM

grogi wrote: »

There is a slight different - plutonium decays on its own...

so does my car

josip · 06-06-2018 11:48AM

Deleted User wrote: »

...
I'm a little peeved now to be honest...

For some reason the above made me think of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eREiQhBDIk

bear1 · 06-06-2018 02:45PM

KKV... how much more time and money are you going to throw at this car?
I would imagine the slave cylinder has failed so I can't see why the garage that changed the engine would be responsible for this? The clutch kit generally doesn't come with the slave cylinder.
I would imagine this repair needs to come out of your own pocket.

clfy39tzve8njq · 06-06-2018 02:48PM

You've got to know when to hold em know when to fold em know when to walk away and know when to RUN. Think it might just be time to RUN unfortunately :-(

So my car needs a new engine..

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