Under-age training misconduct

munchkin_utd wrote:

Talking about putting fire in their belly and getting silverware. They are only 8 or 9 years old ffs.

It shouldn't have to be said but overly competitive coaches, and parents ruin games for a lot of children.

They've tried an initiative, particularly in Dublin district soccer league I think, of the "silent sideline" where there's no be neither encouragement or admonishment of players, referees or coaches as play goes on.

Unfortunately, lots of adults try to live vicariously through their own children or those they coach.

The ethos of "it's how you play the game" and "winning at all costs" are very hard to integrate.

I don't think the story here is the actions that started the whole situation....it's the response to it. The manner in which ranks were closed, the confidentiality of the initial meeting was disregarded and the complainants were treated.

First and foremost, the actions of those involved were clearly wrong and there certainly appears to be more to the story. John Cloonan is not involved with the U14 side but took it upon himself to speak to two 10 year olds privately and tell them they would never pull on the Athenry jersey again. 10 year old kids. Regardless of what was said or not said (it's one word against another), I would think that two 10 year olds being pulled back in private to be spoken to by a club official (not their mentor) would be a very unusual situation which could be somewhat intimidating for a child.

But it's the response that has created the situation and the attempt to obfuscate the matter through misleading information and the bizarre effort to rally support from other members of the community. To bring in multiple individuals to attend a meeting that was noted as a confidential matter is a ridiculous action. For it to lead to complainants being admonished in public view by club members is nuts. I can't imagine the complainants are particularly popular with sections of their community after being exposed in such a manner.

People can talk about a mountain out of a molehill but, if that's the case, the club themselves built the mountain through their own reaction. If they had behaved rationally and appropriately in their response, this would have been a nothing incident that wouldn't have been noted beyond the boundaries of the local parish.

Buer wrote: »

I don't think the story here is the actions that started the whole situation....it's the response to it. The manner in which ranks were closed, the confidentiality of the initial meeting was disregarded and the complainants were treated.

First and foremost, the actions of those involved were clearly wrong and there certainly appears to be more to the story. John Cloonan is not involved with the U14 side but took it upon himself to speak to two 10 year olds privately and tell them they would never pull on the Athenry jersey again. 10 year old kids. Regardless of what was said or not said (it's one word against another), I would think that two 10 year olds being pulled back in private to be spoken to by a club official (not their mentor) would be a very unusual situation which could be somewhat intimidating for a child.

But it's the response that has created the situation and the attempt to obfuscate the matter through misleading information and the bizarre effort to rally support from other members of the community. To bring in multiple individuals to attend a meeting that was noted as a confidential matter is a ridiculous action. For it to lead to complainants being admonished in public view by club members is nuts. I can't imagine the complainants are particularly popular with sections of their community after being exposed in such a manner.

People can talk about a mountain out of a molehill but, if that's the case, the club themselves built the mountain through their own reaction. If they had behaved rationally and appropriately in their response, this would have been a nothing incident that wouldn't have been noted beyond the boundaries of the local parish.

Couldn’t have said it better, the issue was something that could have been easily sorted locally with a bit of common sense and compromise.

The stunning incompetence and recklessness of the club officers created the story for the indo. It really is unbelievable how badly they handled the whole thing.

Happyilylost wrote: »

As a teacher you would know the gentleman involved broke the biggest no no involved with coaching kids "NEVER BE ALONE WITH KIDS. NO EXCUSES." I put it in capitals because that's the way it is in the handbook when you do the child protection course. You say the story the kids could of been inaccurate. And it very well could have. And it very well could of been a hell of a lot worse. The rule is there to protect kids and protect the volunteers involved.

Is the rule never be alone with a single kid, or never be with any number of kids without a second adult present? I never played underage, but my girlfriend was saying that they would be able to get a lift to / from a game if there was more than one of them, but the mentors wouldn't take a girl on their own. If teams are going to matches now do all the cars have to have two adults in them?

Hitman3000 wrote: »

The false statement, the behaviour towards the parents who made a complaint. The actions regards the club seeking support from other parents ie put in a good word. The group waiting in the hotel foyer and other areas approaching the families who made a complaint. You miss all that?

No, I got all that and it is all evidence that the club handled parts of the affair badly.

They've also handled parts of the affair well. (Letter of apology, attendance on a safeguarding course).

Lots of questions remain unanswered.

Did the parents really take their children off an Under 12 panel and "decide" that they would play at U14 level (a BIG step up) and then report the U12 mentor to the National Children's Officer at Croke Park without even so much as having a chat with him?

Who contacted Kimmage with this information given that the article emphasises the "primacy of confidentiality"

Is it fair that these 2 volunteer mentors get named and shamed in the national press?

Kimmage has an axe to grind and the skills to grind it.

Read his heavily emotive text on "Complainant A" (note that they are not identified) making a call to Croke Park ...

He goes to voicemail ... He calls again ... "Not available right now" ... And again ...etc etc. .. ."spitting blood when he finally gets through" ...

Kimmage makes sure the reader is rooting for complainant A by hinting that they are going through so much to get a complaint heard when in reality the opposite was true.

blue note wrote: »

Is the rule never be alone with a single kid, or never be with any number of kids without a second adult present? I never played underage, but my girlfriend was saying that they would be able to get a lift to / from a game if there was more than one of them, but the mentors wouldn't take a girl on their own. If teams are going to matches now do all the cars have to have two adults in them?

I've certainly given lifts as a parent (not mentor) to kids with just one adult in the car, but always with >1 child in the car (except when it's just my own, of course).

lawred2 wrote: »

Billy big balls bullying kids

Probably referred to as a legend about town

This carry on is happening in many other clubs imo

Fair play to all the mentor's giving up their spare time, it must be a nightmare dealing with difficult kids and even more difficult parents when you can't even occasionally curse.

Let's get this much clear:

Kimmage is not highlighting kids being made to play out of their age bracket. In fact his article is very much supportive of the parents who decided to put their 10 year old kids in the u14 squad due to the U12 mentor using the f word at a training session.

I am not condoning the language at all but Kimmage has based his sensationalised article around this very minor incident.

It is extremely unfair that this mentor (remember the only accusation against him is that he used the f word during a training session) has been named and shamed in a national newspaper. Someone who freely gives his time to train the kids. Someone who it appears wasn't even approached by the parents in question about his language. They went straight to Croke Park (and it appears Paul Kimmage as well) about this very minor incident.

The irony here is that Kimmage triumphantly writes about the parent being cautioned for "his emotive language" when he talks to the GAA National Children's Officer!!!

Pure hypocrisy from Kimmage who clearly has a problem with the GAA.

I read the full article. Its shameful tbh.
Their willingness to attempt to brush the whole thing off, to distract from the facts, is worrying in this day and age.
Comments about players parents battling cancer, raising money for same, being an outstanding person in the community etc is a pathetic attempt to sidetrack from the facts.
What adult locks themselves into a room with underage kids? Have these people ever learned anything from all the news from the past few years?
Have they attended and , more importantly, paid attention to child safety guidelines courses?
Theres a level of arrogance that should be dealt with by people at the highest level in the gaa.
These trainers are treated like gods in their area. Allowed to behave in whatever way they wish by fools who will sacrifice their principals so that their kids can play gaa.

Not the first time either according to Kimmage- 2015 letter of complint to O' Maoitheal and complaint to the Gardai.

Something doesn't appear quite right here.

Happyilylost wrote: »

This doesn't add up to what's written in the article. And it wasn't one incident of swearing. It ended with a letter being handed to the chairman of Athenry GAA club stating they were unhappy with the coaching of this team signed by sixteen people. I can't imagine one incident of swearing led to this. Parents of The U12 team voiced concern at an AGM November 2016. The two 10 year olds that left The team in March 2017 I don't think would of been part of this 2016 complaint as they would of been U10's not U12's The previous season. The "going straight to Croke Park" has nothing to do with the first coach or his swearing. It's to do with the second and more serious issue of a club official speaking alone to kids about something that while not clearly stated seems to have little to do with him. The club could of dealt with this issue long before Croke Park but they seemed to think if they ignored it it would go away.

Good point although the 16 signatures could be from anyone. Judging by further information in the article it would seem that the 16 people who signed the letter would not represent a majority of parents of the U12 panel.

However I do agree that it was not handled at all well by the club.

The fact remains that Kimmage has named and vilified someone in a national newspaper for nothing more than using the f word. Someone who has for years willingly given his free time to coach young people. I think that's out of order. Do you?