Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

Dave_The_Sheep · 03-05-2018 11:36PM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

You mean when he shoulder charged Liam Squire in the head :mad:

In terms of contact with the head, there's not much indignation to be had given the conduct in the next game between the sides.

Neil3030 · 03-05-2018 11:40PM

Former Former wrote: »

Whatever about Carbery, there's a growing possibility that Olding and Jackson are finished

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/43994265

I dunno. As much as I agreed with their sacking from Ulster, I would hope they'd land on their feet somewhere.

That somewhere is looking increasingly like it will be Japan.

ionadnapóca · 03-05-2018 11:45PM

bilston wrote: »

And so retires probably my favourite Ulster player of the professional era.

A one club man through thick and thin. An all time Ulster legend and a very good servant to Ireland as well.

Plenty of career highlights.

Sorry to see him retire.

That's some turnover in backs now in the last 12 months.

What a rock of a winger. I loved him in that 2013/14 season.
Very humble fella. Also like the way he is bowing out with only a little fanfare & thank yous. Touch of class.

Brewster · 04-05-2018 02:01AM

Two of my favourite Irish players over the last 15 years are from Ulster, big Bestie and Andrew Trimble. If I’d a dollar for every post defending these two on boards over last 10-15 years, I could retire now! Just an incredible athlete that recovered well from some unfair criticism at 2007 World Cup and went onto to win a Six Nations player of the tournament. Had the pleasure of meeting him, most notably the night of the Chicago game. Just an absolute gentleman who always gave 110% for the jersey. All the time, every single time. Go well in retirement Andrew.

prawnsambo · 04-05-2018 06:08AM

Brewster wrote: »

Two of my favourite Irish players over the last 15 years are from Ulster, big Bestie and Andrew Trimble. If I’d a dollar for every post defending these two on boards over last 10-15 years, I could retire now! Just an incredible athlete that recovered well from some unfair criticism at 2007 World Cup and went onto to win a Six Nations player of the tournament. Had the pleasure of meeting him, most notably the night of the Chicago game. Just an absolute gentleman who always gave 110% for the jersey. All the time, every single time. Go well in retirement Andrew.

Yeah. Never understood why people didn't rate him. He wasn't flashy, but he was an intelligent player and an uncompromising defender. According to tweets from some of his Ireland team mates, has a great sense of humour too.

Burkie1203 · 04-05-2018 06:35AM

Former Former wrote: »

Whatever about Carbery, there's a growing possibility that Olding and Jackson are finished

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/43994265

I dunno. As much as I agreed with their sacking from Ulster, I would hope they'd land on their feet somewhere.

Feel huge degree of sympathy for them. Hopefully they catch a break somewhere.

When you look at how others in Irish society get a free pass by comparison

prawnsambo · 04-05-2018 06:46AM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Feel huge degree of sympathy for them. Hopefully they catch a break somewhere.

When you look at how others in Irish society get a free pass by comparison

Sponsor power at work again I suppose. Somebody mentioned Japan, but I would have thought the reaction there would be worse. I'm probably stereotyping, but the Japanese always struck me as being very strait-laced.

stephen_n · 04-05-2018 06:59AM

awec wrote: »

Yes.

The implication on here is that Ulster could take Carbery and play him at 15 or on the bench every single week and Schmidt, Nucifora and co could do absolutely nothing about it.

Of course this just isn't reality.

But they can’t do anything about it at Leinster, do you not see how laughable that is? Take the anti IRFU/Nucifora blinkers for a moment and reality might seep in.

Podge_irl · 04-05-2018 07:00AM

Former Former wrote: »

I dunno. As much as I agreed with their sacking from Ulster, I would hope they'd land on their feet somewhere.

That seems somewhat contradictory to me really.

I would have thought they could find something in France to be honest.

prawnsambo · 04-05-2018 07:02AM

stephen_n wrote: »

But they can’t do anything about it at Leinster, do you not see how laughable that is? Take the anti IRFU/Nucifora blinkers for a moment and reality might seep in.

Well yes thay can. Does this move not demonstrate exactly that?

molloyjh · 04-05-2018 07:48AM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Well yes thay can. Does this move not demonstrate exactly that?

What Stephen is talking about is the ability to guarantee selection at 10 week in, week out. The move itself is an entirely different thing.

awec · 04-05-2018 07:52AM

molloyjh wrote: »

What Stephen is talking about is the ability to guarantee selection at 10 week in, week out. The move itself is an entirely different thing.

Actually Stephen is suggesting that the IRFU, the employers of Joey Carbery and Leo Cullen, are absolutely powerless when it comes to the selection of the team that they also happen to be owners of.

If Joe Schmidt or David Nucifora insisted on Carbery playing 10 for Leinster then he'd be playing 10 for Leinster.

The idea that Carbery can move to Ulster to get game time at 10 and then Ulster are totally free to do whatever they like with him is just daft. It's a ludicrous suggestion.

Podge_irl · 04-05-2018 08:01AM

If Jow Schmidt or David Nucifora insisted on any player playing in a given position then it would happen - but they don't do it and it would be unusual for them to start now. Frankly I don't think anyone involved would think a guarantee of gametime is needed - by the estimation of Schmidt the decision to play Carberry at 10 for Ulster would be a no brainer.

Former Former · 04-05-2018 08:07AM

Podge_irl wrote: »

That seems somewhat contradictory to me really.

I would have thought they could find something in France to be honest.

It is, yeah. It's a total NIMBY attitude but I don't really want them serving an effective life ban either.

Buer · 04-05-2018 08:16AM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yeah. Never understood why people didn't rate him. He wasn't flashy, but he was an intelligent player and an uncompromising defender. According to tweets from some of his Ireland team mates, has a great sense of humour too.

The same reason people denigrate players from other provinces 90% of the time. He was competing with someone they wanted in the team ahead of him.

There was no logic beyond seeing him as a threat to their crush.

jr86 · 04-05-2018 08:16AM

Former Former wrote: »

Whatever about Carbery, there's a growing possibility that Olding and Jackson are finished

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/43994265

I dunno. As much as I agreed with their sacking from Ulster, I would hope they'd land on their feet somewhere.

Yeah it's not at all looking good for them. Given the reaction to the potential Sale move I can't ever see them playing in England

They did however mention on Off the Ball about the possibility of a team encountering an injury crisis at 10 early/midway through the season, and maybe snapping Jackson up then. If anyone is to sign them it might just be the only viable way - get it done and dusted quickly and have them playing straight away and it'll die down quickly

Whatever about the serial protesters on Twitter, it's another thing completely having sponsors and season ticket holders against the move

As it is I'm really struggling to see them registered for a club by September

Another full year out of pro-rugby and that could well be the end of them

prawnsambo · 04-05-2018 08:31AM

Buer wrote: »

The same reason people denigrate players from other provinces 90% of the time. He was competing with someone they wanted in the team ahead of him.

There was no logic beyond seeing him as a threat to their crush.

Not unlike Fergus McFadden really. Everybody focusing so much on what he doesn't bring, that they don't appreciate what he does.

irishbucsfan · 04-05-2018 08:34AM

jr86 wrote: »

Yeah it's not at all looking good for them. Given the reaction to the potential Sale move I can't ever see them playing in England

They did however mention on Off the Ball about the possibility of a team encountering an injury crisis at 10 early/midway through the season, and maybe snapping Jackson up then. If anyone is to sign them it might just be the only viable way - get it done and dusted quickly and have them playing straight away and it'll die down quickly

Whatever about the serial protesters on Twitter, it's another thing completely having sponsors and season ticket holders against the move

As it is I'm really struggling to see them registered for a club by September

Another full year out of pro-rugby and that could well be the end of them

Ah I’d say they will definitely find a club. It’s just a matter of negotiating price and standards. Japan will always be an option.

04-05-2018 08:58AM

awec wrote: »

Actually Stephen is suggesting that the IRFU, the employers of Joey Carbery and Leo Cullen, are absolutely powerless when it comes to the selection of the team that they also happen to be owners of.

If Joe Schmidt or David Nucifora insisted on Carbery playing 10 for Leinster then he'd be playing 10 for Leinster.

The idea that Carbery can move to Ulster to get game time at 10 and then Ulster are totally free to do whatever they like with him is just daft. It's a ludicrous suggestion.

There are a few things wrong with this post in my opinion.

Before international windows Joe spends a lot of time with the provinces and makes suggestions to the coaches for players and positions. Where possible the provinces accommodate this but they have a say.

Joe or the IRFU have no say about selection for critical fixtures at all and it's actually the Christmas interpro's where they have the most influence.

If Carbery goes to Ulster and doesn't perform, Joe isn't going to care if he plays or not. If McPhillips is performing better then they will want to see him getting game time with a view to being available for national selection.

I would say that any agreement for Carbery to go north will revolve around him being picked at 10 over 15 but there won't be stipulations beyond that. If he stinks the place out he won't be picked but I don't think anyone expects that to happen.

stephen_n · 04-05-2018 08:59AM

awec wrote: »

Actually Stephen is suggesting that the IRFU, the employers of Joey Carbery and Leo Cullen, are absolutely powerless when it comes to the selection of the team that they also happen to be owners of.

If Joe Schmidt or David Nucifora insisted on Carbery playing 10 for Leinster then he'd be playing 10 for Leinster.

The idea that Carbery can move to Ulster to get game time at 10 and then Ulster are totally free to do whatever they like with him is just daft. It's a ludicrous suggestion.

Then why are they moving him from Leinster to get game time? Can you not see how you are actually making an argument aganist your theory there? How do you not see that?

launish116 · 04-05-2018 09:10AM

Another one bites the dust! Good bye Diack

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/17277.php#.WuwjVxbTWEc

prawnsambo · 04-05-2018 09:12AM

Deleted User wrote: »

There are a few things wrong with this post in my opinion.

Before international windows Joe spends a lot of time with the provinces and makes suggestions to the coaches for players and positions. Where possible the provinces accommodate this but they have a say.

Joe or the IRFU have no say about selection for critical fixtures at all and it's actually the Christmas interpro's where they have the most influence.

If Carbery goes to Ulster and doesn't perform, Joe isn't going to care if he plays or not. If McPhillips is performing better then they will want to see him getting game time with a view to being available for national selection.

I would say that any agreement for Carbery to go north will revolve around him being picked at 10 over 15 but there won't be stipulations beyond that. If he stinks the place out he won't be picked but I don't think anyone expects that to happen.

If I was Joey, I wouldn't be overwhelmed with your sales spiel.

stephen_n · 04-05-2018 09:25AM

So to sum up Awec’s Position.

The IRFU/Nucifora/Schmidt want to:

Encourage a player to move province, even though he doesn’t want to and the province don’t want him to leave. Because they won’t make the province play him at 10, even though they can.

To make him go to a province who don’t want him, so they can make that province play him at 10.

Yes all that seems perfectly rational and logical when you think about it :rolleyes:

awec · 04-05-2018 09:36AM

Stephen, let's talk about an example scenario cause I feel it's the only way we're going to end this nonsense.

Joey Carbery moves to Ulster. Ulster pick him every week on the wing.

What happens?

prawnsambo · 04-05-2018 09:39AM

stephen_n wrote: »

So to sum up Awec’s Position.

The IRFU/Nucifora/Schmidt want to:

Encourage a player to move province, even though he doesn’t want to and the province don’t want him to leave. Because they won’t make the province play him at 10, even though they can.

To make him go to a province who don’t want him, so they can make that province play him at 10.

Yes all that seems perfectly rational and logical when you think about it :rolleyes:

Purely as devil's advocate, I could put that another (and equally logical) way.

The IRFU/Nucifora/Schmidt want Leinster to play Carbery at ten more often.

Leinster don't want to do that because they have other priorities.

The IRFU/Nucifora/Schmidt then take the matter out of Leinster's hands by approaching Carbery and trying to persuade him to move to Ulster.

None of that says that they can dictate where he plays at Ulster, or Leinster. But Ulster would be very aware of why he's being moved there. And what the Lord giveth, he can taketh away.

awec · 04-05-2018 09:39AM

Deleted User wrote: »

There are a few things wrong with this post in my opinion.

Before international windows Joe spends a lot of time with the provinces and makes suggestions to the coaches for players and positions. Where possible the provinces accommodate this but they have a say.

Joe or the IRFU have no say about selection for critical fixtures at all and it's actually the Christmas interpro's where they have the most influence.

If Carbery goes to Ulster and doesn't perform, Joe isn't going to care if he plays or not. If McPhillips is performing better then they will want to see him getting game time with a view to being available for national selection.

I would say that any agreement for Carbery to go north will revolve around him being picked at 10 over 15 but there won't be stipulations beyond that. If he stinks the place out he won't be picked but I don't think anyone expects that to happen.

I would say it is a discussion between provinces and Schmidt but if Schmidt absolutely insists it is going to happen.

The idea that he has absolutely no power whatsoever in selections is just fantasy stuff. It makes absolutely no sense.

I imagine Schmidt has asked Leinster to play Carbery at 10 but understands they have needed him at 15 and Byrne has also needed gametime. Carbery has also been injured this season.

It is not as simple as Schmidt being totally powerles and Cullen just saying "no", despite what some on this forum would want you to believe.

If Schmidt asks Ulster to play Carbery at 10 for the benefit of Ireland Ulster don't exactly have a compelling reason not to. We don't have a Sexton and we don't have a Byrne.

Squidgy Black · 04-05-2018 09:43AM

awec wrote: »

Stephen, let's talk about an example scenario cause I feel it's the only way we're going to end this nonsense.

Joey Carbery moves to Ulster. Ulster pick him every week on the wing.

What happens?

Joey becomes the best winger in Ireland and Stockdale gets benched in favour of him. Ulster wins the champions cup and the Pro14, awec goes on a rampage.

awec · 04-05-2018 09:51AM

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Joey becomes the best winger in Ireland and Stockdale gets benched in favour of him. Ulster wins the champions cup and the Pro14, awec goes on a rampage.

Ha!

Here's what boards.ie thinks happens:

Schmidt: "why are you playing Carbery on the wing, we moved him for game time at 10?"

Ulster: "cause we want to"

Schmidt: "play him at 10"

Ulster: "no"

Schmidt: "please play him at 10"

Ulster: "no"

Schmidt: "pretty please?"

Ulster: "no"

Schmidt: "pretty please with sugar on top?"

Ulster: "no"

Schmidt: "seriously lads, I'm begging you"

Ulster: "no"

Schmidt: "come on, be reasonable"

Ulster: "no"

Schmidt: "this is not beneficial for Ireland"

Ulster: "meh"

Schmidt: "I really wish I could do something about this, if only you lads were all subordinate to me or something"

Ulster: "cool"

Schmidt: "I'm telling David"

Ulster: "go for it"

David: "please play him at 10"

Ulster: "no"

x100

Awesomeness · 04-05-2018 09:55AM

awec wrote: »

Ha!

Here's what boards.ie thinks happens:

Schmidt: "why are you playing Carbery on the wing, we moved him for game time at 10?"

Ulster: "cause we want to"

Schmidt: "play him at 10"

Ulster: "no"

Schmidt: "please play him at 10"

Ulster: "no"

Schmidt: "pretty please?"

Ulster: "no"

Schmidt: "pretty please with sugar on top?"

Ulster: "no"

Schmidt: "seriously lads, I'm begging you"

Ulster: "no"

Schmidt: "come on, be reasonable"

Ulster: "no"

Schmidt: "this is not beneficial for Ireland"

Ulster: "meh"

Schmidt: "I really wish I could do something about this, if only you lads were all subordinate to me or something"

Ulster: "cool"

Schmidt: "I'm telling David"

Ulster: "go for it"

David: "please play him at 10"

Ulster: "no"

x100

How about a slightly more plausible one

Ha!

Here's what boards.ie thinks happens:

Schmidt: "why are you playing Carbery at fullback, we moved him for game time at 10?"

Ulster: "cause we want to"

Schmidt: "play him at 10"

Ulster: "Mcphiliips is playing better at 10 and we have injuries so we need a fullback"

Schmidt: "please play him at 10"

Ulster: "He will get game time when injuries clear up but for now this suits ulsters needs better"

Schmidt: "ok fair enough"

Scythica · 04-05-2018 09:58AM

lads I can't believe there's been 2 posts like that and not one mention of 'no surrender!'

Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

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