Kiprop tests positive for EPO

pconn062 · 03-05-2018 9:06am #1

This must be the only athletics forum in the world where this is not being discussed.

Kiprop, 3 times world champ and Olympic champ has tested positive for EPO.

Honestly can't say I'm surprised, when you make running 3.26 look like 3.36 there is something going on.

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2018/05/asbel-kiprop-reportedly-tested-positive-epo-mean-5-takeaways/

How many people were robbed of medals and money, including the very likeable Nick Willis.

morceli · 03-05-2018 9:23am

No sure how many clean athletes were robbed of medals . But if he loses his Olympic gold will Nick have have had all 3 medals now

youngrun · 03-05-2018 9:26am

pconn062 wrote: »

This must be the only athletics forum in the world where this is not being discussed.

Kiprop, 3 times world champ and Olympic champ has tested positive for EPO.

Honestly can't say I'm surprised, when you make running 3.26 look like 3.36 there is something going on.

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2018/05/asbel-kiprop-reportedly-tested-positive-epo-mean-5-takeaways/

How many people were robbed of medals and money, including the very likeable Nick Willis.

Not yet officially confirmed may be the reason. Similar case a month back and thats not confirmed either

Doesnt look good and desperate news for the sport if IAAF/WADA confirm its veracity

sideswipe · 03-05-2018 9:44am

pconn062 wrote: »

This must be the only athletics forum in the world where this is not being discussed.

The depressing thing is that nobody is surprised. I used to take an interest but nothing really changes and it's hard to see a time where honest athletes aren't being cheated left right and centre. If you were the parent of a talented kid these days it would be very hard to encourage them to pursue their dreams in athletics because of levels of cheating, country hopping etc.

This is also the reason I enjoyed the results of the Boston marathon this year in both mens and womens race, it just felt like a win for the sport.

ultrapercy · 03-05-2018 9:50am

sideswipe wrote: »

The depressing thing is that nobody is surprised. I used to take an interest but nothing really changes and it's hard to see a time where honest athletes aren't being cheated left right and centre. If you were the parent of a talented kid these days it would be very hard to encourage them to pursue their dreams in athletics because of levels of cheating, country hopping etc.

This is also the reason I enjoyed the results of the Boston marathon this year in both mens and womens race, it just felt like a win for the sport.

The problem in athletics is no worse than it is in any sport its just highlighted more. All top level sports are corrupted with cheating of every kind.

Djoucer · 03-05-2018 9:55am

Nah. There's almost zero credibility left in athletics.

It's down to literally one athlete, Usain Bolt. If he's popped, it's game over.

youngrun · 03-05-2018 10:07am

ultrapercy wrote: »

The problem in athletics is no worse than it is in any sport its just highlighted more. All top level sports are corrupted with cheating of every kind.

Very common across the board for sure

https://news.sky.com/story/rugby-has-worst-doping-record-of-any-uk-sport-10345087
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/european-cup/johann-van-graan-and-munster-to-stand-by-convicted-doper-gerbrandt-grobler-1.3357635?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fsport%2Frugby%2Feuropean-cup%2Fjohann-van-graan-and-munster-to-stand-by-convicted-doper-gerbrandt-grobler-1.3357635
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/05/health/performance-enhancing-drugs-nfl-investigative-explainer/index.html

team sports seem to get away lightly PR Wise and it doesnt seem important to media or fans etc

Kenya should probably face a ban until it can prove it has a proper testing regime given level and profile of the athletes caught/alleged ( World and olympic champions, marathon major winners )

It is really bad news for the sport and Action needs to be taken or nobody will believe any Kenyan performances.

sideswipe · 03-05-2018 10:11am

ultrapercy wrote: »

The problem in athletics is no worse than it is in any sport its just highlighted more. All top level sports are corrupted with cheating of every kind.

Possibly true, but endurance based sports like athletics and cycling are far more influenced by cheating.

There has been plenty of fingers pointing at certain tennis stars over the years yet nobody doubts their world class ability.
Look at the conveyor belt of genetically suited, runners from certain areas of the globe. They come from abject poverty and are given the chance to become their equivalent of international soccer stars. Some (many?) are given the opportunity to increase their chance of making it by taking whatever the team doc provides them with.

I also don't know of people in any other sport being kept off the podium by other athletes swapping nationality. I've seen it happen to the likes of Fionnuala McCormack and it just stinks.

Hurrache · 03-05-2018 10:16am

Only a couple of posts in and a thread about doping in athletics has taken it's usual turn, sure look at other sports.

That probably the answer to the first post as to why it's not being discussed here.

ultrapercy · 03-05-2018 10:34am

Hurrache wrote: »

Only a couple of posts in and a thread about doping in athletics has taken it's usual turn, sure look at other sports.

That probably the answer to the first post as to why it's not being discussed here.

Its a problwm in all sports but athletics is one of the few sports trying to deal with it. The fact that high profile people get caught is an indication of intrest in solving the problem. The absense of same in other sports indicates the opposite.

Hurrache · 03-05-2018 10:43am

This is not the general sports forum, 5 posts in and the misdirection began. What's the problem with just talking about the problem in athletics without resorting to whataboutery?

ultrapercy · 03-05-2018 10:55am

Hurrache wrote: »

This is not the general sports forum, 5 posts in and the misdirection began. Wants the problem with just talking about the problem in athletics without resorting to whataboutery?

It isnt your forum either. The conversation goes whatever direction posters wish to take it.

Hurrache · 03-05-2018 10:59am

I never said it wasn't anyone's forum. All your doing is highlighting the way in which this particular forum is taken by some whenever there's a doping discussion.

morceli · 03-05-2018 11:02am

youngrun wrote: »

V

Kenya should probably face a ban until it can prove it has a proper testing regime given level and profile of the athletes caught/alleged ( World and olympic champions, marathon major winners )

.

Yes and countries should not select Athletes that are spending a large amount of time there, there are a number great performances over the last few years from Europeans based in Kenya. Although there is high visibility in Kenya now on this topic to the exudes to another country already started.

rom · 03-05-2018 11:04am

https://www.athleticsmanagers.com/users/46/69/federico-rosa.html

Can't comment or comment on why can't comment as it will result in a ban.

ultrapercy · 03-05-2018 11:05am

Hurrache wrote: »

I never said it wasn't anyone's forum. All your doing is highlighting the way in which this particular forum is taken by some whenever there's a doping discussion.

And all your doung is trying to hully through your own agenda. I made a valid(in my opinion) point. You criticised me for making that point

Subtle · 03-05-2018 11:29am

Rather than focussing all the time on trying to catch those taking drugs, a lot more should be done on addressing WHY top sports people resort to taking them in the first place.

Someone once mentioned to me about a study done years ago that asked top athletes in different sports if they would take some drug (perhaps a not-yet-known-about one) that could help improve their performance and ultimately allow them to win in their field, with zero chance of detection. The answer was a resounding yes, such was the drive of these athletes for success and winning etc. It wasn't seen as cheating in their eyes or perhaps this was just the cost of achieving their dreams.

rom · 03-05-2018 11:40am

Subtle wrote: »

Rather than focussing all the time on trying to catch those taking drugs, a lot more should be done on addressing WHY top sports people resort to taking them in the first place.

Someone once mentioned to me about a study done years ago that asked top athletes in different sports if they would take some drug (perhaps a not-yet-known-about one) that could help improve their performance and ultimately allow them to win in their field, with zero chance of detection. The answer was a resounding yes, such was the drive of these athletes for success and winning etc. It wasn't seen as cheating in their eyes or perhaps this was just the cost of achieving their dreams.

I read on the internet that most things you read on the internet are false.

Tell me how · 03-05-2018 11:45am

Subtle wrote:

Rather than focussing all the time on trying to catch those taking drugs, a lot more should be done on addressing WHY top sports people resort to taking them in the first place.

Success, fame, money.

How much research would it take to confirm this?

youngrun · 03-05-2018 11:49am

https://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/43984008

Kiprop denies

Subtle · 03-05-2018 11:56am

rom wrote: »

I read on the internet that most things you read on the internet are false.

?! My anecdote came from a discussion with someone heavily involved in sports around the time many years ago that the whole Tour de France doping started emerging.

You have to look at things from an athlete's point of view. Their whole life typically revolves around their drive for success in their sport. Most of their days are dictated by regimented meals and training, and preparing for the next competition or some event 2 years off. It's a tough life and one could argue that the traditional joy of participation in their sport gets kindof lost and replaced by the dream of achieving success, by any 'legitimate' means possible.

Subtle · 03-05-2018 12:04pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Success, fame, money.

How much research would it take to confirm this?

Re-read my post. I referred to doing research on 'addressing why', obviously not on 'why' alone if you follow me. The why as you say is obvious. But addressing the why is less so.

GreeBo · 03-05-2018 12:05pm

Subtle wrote: »

Rather than focussing all the time on trying to catch those taking drugs, a lot more should be done on addressing WHY top sports people resort to taking them in the first place.

Erm, to win?

I think perhaps you are overthinking it.

Tell me how · 03-05-2018 12:19pm

Subtle wrote:

Re-read my post. I referred to doing research on 'addressing why', obviously not on 'why' alone if you follow me. The why as you say is obvious. But addressing the why is less so.

Yes and cover the rest of society at the same time...

These behaviors and motivations are not specific to sports stars. The difference is that sports stars have tools (PED) to significantly improve performance and the difference in rewards for being in the top .1% versus the top 1% are huge.

If you could offer similar tools to the rest of society whereby they take something and become high achievers in their fields, chances are after a certain period, the people at the top of those fields would be similarly guilty.

NIMAN · 03-05-2018 12:22pm

Djoucer wrote: »

Nah. There's almost zero credibility left in athletics.

It's down to literally one athlete, Usain Bolt. If he's popped, it's game over.

Then it has none left, cos for me he.... I'll just leave it and not express my opinion.

Subtle · 03-05-2018 12:27pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Erm, to win?

I think perhaps you are overthinking it.

See my last post - me putting 'why' in capitals has confused things! So basically, my point was that in sports the emphasis is on trying to detect drugs in athletes rather than really changing the thinking or mindset of athletes who might be tempted to go down that road. I even wonder do we really see those who have been caught as 'cheats' in the same sense that we'd normally regard the term...

I don't think of that cyclist guy who came back from cancer to win lots of stuff (but who's name escapes me!!) as a cheat. I don't like the guy one bit but for some odd reason if I was asked at a table quiz who cheated at the Tour de France in such a year, I would initially be thinking that someone must have taken a shortcut or used a bike with some banned feature! Maybe that's just me...

rom · 03-05-2018 12:34pm

Subtle wrote: »

Re-read my post. I referred to doing research on 'addressing why', obviously not on 'why' alone if you follow me. The why as you say is obvious. But addressing the why is less so.

For example Kenya where the average way is about 5,000 euro a year you wonder why people cheat when they can get 2 years salary for 10th place in Dubai Marathon and 40 years salary for winning the race.

If it was 2 Million Euro to the fastest Irish athlete to win Dublin there would be a few breaking 2:10 (one way or another).

pconn062 · 03-05-2018 12:35pm

Hurrache wrote: »

This is not the general sports forum, 5 posts in and the misdirection began. What's the problem with just talking about the problem in athletics without resorting to whataboutery?

I think UP's point is that people do talk about the problem in athletics, the whole time. Hence people have this notion that athletics is waaay worse than other sports and come out with statements like "I have zero faith left in athletics" because they thing it's way worse than other sports, when it's not. It's just that athletics, unlike a lot of other sports actually tries to deal with it head on.

We know there's a problem, there are constant failed tests to remind us there are a problem. It doesn't mean that athletics is worse or better than other sports, just that the governing bodies are more willing to do something about it that most other sports.

Djoucer · 03-05-2018 12:37pm

https://www.fastrunning.com/opinion/comment/dont-add-one-one-together-get-two-thousand-doping-kenyans/15659

Running with Kenyans author shares his thoughts.

Recently read the book and found it a bit naive in parts.

Subtle · 03-05-2018 12:37pm

Tell me how wrote: »

sports stars have tools (PED) to significantly improve performance and the difference in rewards for being in the top .1% versus the top 1% are huge.

Actually, that's all ringing a bell now in relation to the original discussion I was trying to recall - it was all about taking a little something to just get that edge.

And it's already happening in other areas as you suggest, e.g. apparently with top programmers in the IT world etc. But the use of PEDs doesn't really get seen as cheating in my eyes, more like getting the most from your body (or brain) and maximising your potential. That's probably the underlying issue.

Edit: Sorry, derailing this thread. Will park things here.

youngrun · 03-05-2018 12:40pm

pconn062 wrote: »

I think UP's point is that people do talk about the problem in athletics, the whole time. Hence people have this notion that athletics is waaay worse than other sports and come out with statements like "I have zero faith left in athletics" because they thing it's way worse than other sports, when it's not. It's just that athletics, unlike a lot of other sports actually tries to deal with it head on.

We know there's a problem, there are constant failed tests to remind us there are a problem. It doesn't mean that athletics is worse or better than other sports, just that the governing bodies are more willing to do something about it that most other sports.

Human nature and the desire to win and be first comes into sport as well.
Will we ever get rid of doping or competitive advantage via illegal/underhand ways?
Seems to have been going on forever and without seriously draconian penalties eg loss of career/imprisonment etc not going to change

Kiprop tests positive for EPO

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