Kiprop tests positive for EPO

pconn062 · 03-05-2018 9:06am #1

This must be the only athletics forum in the world where this is not being discussed.

Kiprop, 3 times world champ and Olympic champ has tested positive for EPO.

Honestly can't say I'm surprised, when you make running 3.26 look like 3.36 there is something going on.

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2018/05/asbel-kiprop-reportedly-tested-positive-epo-mean-5-takeaways/

How many people were robbed of medals and money, including the very likeable Nick Willis.

morceli · 03-05-2018 9:23am

No sure how many clean athletes were robbed of medals . But if he loses his Olympic gold will Nick have have had all 3 medals now

youngrun · 03-05-2018 9:26am

pconn062 wrote: »

This must be the only athletics forum in the world where this is not being discussed.

Kiprop, 3 times world champ and Olympic champ has tested positive for EPO.

Honestly can't say I'm surprised, when you make running 3.26 look like 3.36 there is something going on.

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2018/05/asbel-kiprop-reportedly-tested-positive-epo-mean-5-takeaways/

How many people were robbed of medals and money, including the very likeable Nick Willis.

Not yet officially confirmed may be the reason. Similar case a month back and thats not confirmed either

Doesnt look good and desperate news for the sport if IAAF/WADA confirm its veracity

sideswipe · 03-05-2018 9:44am

pconn062 wrote: »

This must be the only athletics forum in the world where this is not being discussed.

The depressing thing is that nobody is surprised. I used to take an interest but nothing really changes and it's hard to see a time where honest athletes aren't being cheated left right and centre. If you were the parent of a talented kid these days it would be very hard to encourage them to pursue their dreams in athletics because of levels of cheating, country hopping etc.

This is also the reason I enjoyed the results of the Boston marathon this year in both mens and womens race, it just felt like a win for the sport.

ultrapercy · 03-05-2018 9:50am

sideswipe wrote: »

The depressing thing is that nobody is surprised. I used to take an interest but nothing really changes and it's hard to see a time where honest athletes aren't being cheated left right and centre. If you were the parent of a talented kid these days it would be very hard to encourage them to pursue their dreams in athletics because of levels of cheating, country hopping etc.

This is also the reason I enjoyed the results of the Boston marathon this year in both mens and womens race, it just felt like a win for the sport.

The problem in athletics is no worse than it is in any sport its just highlighted more. All top level sports are corrupted with cheating of every kind.

Djoucer · 03-05-2018 9:55am

Nah. There's almost zero credibility left in athletics.

It's down to literally one athlete, Usain Bolt. If he's popped, it's game over.

youngrun · 03-05-2018 10:07am

ultrapercy wrote: »

The problem in athletics is no worse than it is in any sport its just highlighted more. All top level sports are corrupted with cheating of every kind.

Very common across the board for sure

https://news.sky.com/story/rugby-has-worst-doping-record-of-any-uk-sport-10345087
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/european-cup/johann-van-graan-and-munster-to-stand-by-convicted-doper-gerbrandt-grobler-1.3357635?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fsport%2Frugby%2Feuropean-cup%2Fjohann-van-graan-and-munster-to-stand-by-convicted-doper-gerbrandt-grobler-1.3357635
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/05/health/performance-enhancing-drugs-nfl-investigative-explainer/index.html

team sports seem to get away lightly PR Wise and it doesnt seem important to media or fans etc

Kenya should probably face a ban until it can prove it has a proper testing regime given level and profile of the athletes caught/alleged ( World and olympic champions, marathon major winners )

It is really bad news for the sport and Action needs to be taken or nobody will believe any Kenyan performances.

sideswipe · 03-05-2018 10:11am

ultrapercy wrote: »

The problem in athletics is no worse than it is in any sport its just highlighted more. All top level sports are corrupted with cheating of every kind.

Possibly true, but endurance based sports like athletics and cycling are far more influenced by cheating.

There has been plenty of fingers pointing at certain tennis stars over the years yet nobody doubts their world class ability.
Look at the conveyor belt of genetically suited, runners from certain areas of the globe. They come from abject poverty and are given the chance to become their equivalent of international soccer stars. Some (many?) are given the opportunity to increase their chance of making it by taking whatever the team doc provides them with.

I also don't know of people in any other sport being kept off the podium by other athletes swapping nationality. I've seen it happen to the likes of Fionnuala McCormack and it just stinks.

Hurrache · 03-05-2018 10:16am

Only a couple of posts in and a thread about doping in athletics has taken it's usual turn, sure look at other sports.

That probably the answer to the first post as to why it's not being discussed here.

ultrapercy · 03-05-2018 10:34am

Hurrache wrote: »

Only a couple of posts in and a thread about doping in athletics has taken it's usual turn, sure look at other sports.

That probably the answer to the first post as to why it's not being discussed here.

Its a problwm in all sports but athletics is one of the few sports trying to deal with it. The fact that high profile people get caught is an indication of intrest in solving the problem. The absense of same in other sports indicates the opposite.

Hurrache · 03-05-2018 10:43am

This is not the general sports forum, 5 posts in and the misdirection began. What's the problem with just talking about the problem in athletics without resorting to whataboutery?

ultrapercy · 03-05-2018 10:55am

Hurrache wrote: »

This is not the general sports forum, 5 posts in and the misdirection began. Wants the problem with just talking about the problem in athletics without resorting to whataboutery?

It isnt your forum either. The conversation goes whatever direction posters wish to take it.

Hurrache · 03-05-2018 10:59am

I never said it wasn't anyone's forum. All your doing is highlighting the way in which this particular forum is taken by some whenever there's a doping discussion.

morceli · 03-05-2018 11:02am

youngrun wrote: »

V

Kenya should probably face a ban until it can prove it has a proper testing regime given level and profile of the athletes caught/alleged ( World and olympic champions, marathon major winners )

.

Yes and countries should not select Athletes that are spending a large amount of time there, there are a number great performances over the last few years from Europeans based in Kenya. Although there is high visibility in Kenya now on this topic to the exudes to another country already started.

rom · 03-05-2018 11:04am

https://www.athleticsmanagers.com/users/46/69/federico-rosa.html

Can't comment or comment on why can't comment as it will result in a ban.

ultrapercy · 03-05-2018 11:05am

Hurrache wrote: »

I never said it wasn't anyone's forum. All your doing is highlighting the way in which this particular forum is taken by some whenever there's a doping discussion.

And all your doung is trying to hully through your own agenda. I made a valid(in my opinion) point. You criticised me for making that point

Subtle · 03-05-2018 11:29am

Rather than focussing all the time on trying to catch those taking drugs, a lot more should be done on addressing WHY top sports people resort to taking them in the first place.

Someone once mentioned to me about a study done years ago that asked top athletes in different sports if they would take some drug (perhaps a not-yet-known-about one) that could help improve their performance and ultimately allow them to win in their field, with zero chance of detection. The answer was a resounding yes, such was the drive of these athletes for success and winning etc. It wasn't seen as cheating in their eyes or perhaps this was just the cost of achieving their dreams.

rom · 03-05-2018 11:40am

Subtle wrote: »

Rather than focussing all the time on trying to catch those taking drugs, a lot more should be done on addressing WHY top sports people resort to taking them in the first place.

Someone once mentioned to me about a study done years ago that asked top athletes in different sports if they would take some drug (perhaps a not-yet-known-about one) that could help improve their performance and ultimately allow them to win in their field, with zero chance of detection. The answer was a resounding yes, such was the drive of these athletes for success and winning etc. It wasn't seen as cheating in their eyes or perhaps this was just the cost of achieving their dreams.

I read on the internet that most things you read on the internet are false.

Tell me how · 03-05-2018 11:45am

Subtle wrote:

Rather than focussing all the time on trying to catch those taking drugs, a lot more should be done on addressing WHY top sports people resort to taking them in the first place.

Success, fame, money.

How much research would it take to confirm this?

youngrun · 03-05-2018 11:49am

https://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/43984008

Kiprop denies

Subtle · 03-05-2018 11:56am

rom wrote: »

I read on the internet that most things you read on the internet are false.

?! My anecdote came from a discussion with someone heavily involved in sports around the time many years ago that the whole Tour de France doping started emerging.

You have to look at things from an athlete's point of view. Their whole life typically revolves around their drive for success in their sport. Most of their days are dictated by regimented meals and training, and preparing for the next competition or some event 2 years off. It's a tough life and one could argue that the traditional joy of participation in their sport gets kindof lost and replaced by the dream of achieving success, by any 'legitimate' means possible.

Subtle · 03-05-2018 12:04pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Success, fame, money.

How much research would it take to confirm this?

Re-read my post. I referred to doing research on 'addressing why', obviously not on 'why' alone if you follow me. The why as you say is obvious. But addressing the why is less so.

GreeBo · 03-05-2018 12:05pm

Subtle wrote: »

Rather than focussing all the time on trying to catch those taking drugs, a lot more should be done on addressing WHY top sports people resort to taking them in the first place.

Erm, to win?

I think perhaps you are overthinking it.

Tell me how · 03-05-2018 12:19pm

Subtle wrote:

Re-read my post. I referred to doing research on 'addressing why', obviously not on 'why' alone if you follow me. The why as you say is obvious. But addressing the why is less so.

Yes and cover the rest of society at the same time...

These behaviors and motivations are not specific to sports stars. The difference is that sports stars have tools (PED) to significantly improve performance and the difference in rewards for being in the top .1% versus the top 1% are huge.

If you could offer similar tools to the rest of society whereby they take something and become high achievers in their fields, chances are after a certain period, the people at the top of those fields would be similarly guilty.

NIMAN · 03-05-2018 12:22pm

Djoucer wrote: »

Nah. There's almost zero credibility left in athletics.

It's down to literally one athlete, Usain Bolt. If he's popped, it's game over.

Then it has none left, cos for me he.... I'll just leave it and not express my opinion.

Subtle · 03-05-2018 12:27pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Erm, to win?

I think perhaps you are overthinking it.

See my last post - me putting 'why' in capitals has confused things! So basically, my point was that in sports the emphasis is on trying to detect drugs in athletes rather than really changing the thinking or mindset of athletes who might be tempted to go down that road. I even wonder do we really see those who have been caught as 'cheats' in the same sense that we'd normally regard the term...

I don't think of that cyclist guy who came back from cancer to win lots of stuff (but who's name escapes me!!) as a cheat. I don't like the guy one bit but for some odd reason if I was asked at a table quiz who cheated at the Tour de France in such a year, I would initially be thinking that someone must have taken a shortcut or used a bike with some banned feature! Maybe that's just me...

rom · 03-05-2018 12:34pm

Subtle wrote: »

Re-read my post. I referred to doing research on 'addressing why', obviously not on 'why' alone if you follow me. The why as you say is obvious. But addressing the why is less so.

For example Kenya where the average way is about 5,000 euro a year you wonder why people cheat when they can get 2 years salary for 10th place in Dubai Marathon and 40 years salary for winning the race.

If it was 2 Million Euro to the fastest Irish athlete to win Dublin there would be a few breaking 2:10 (one way or another).

pconn062 · 03-05-2018 12:35pm

Hurrache wrote: »

This is not the general sports forum, 5 posts in and the misdirection began. What's the problem with just talking about the problem in athletics without resorting to whataboutery?

I think UP's point is that people do talk about the problem in athletics, the whole time. Hence people have this notion that athletics is waaay worse than other sports and come out with statements like "I have zero faith left in athletics" because they thing it's way worse than other sports, when it's not. It's just that athletics, unlike a lot of other sports actually tries to deal with it head on.

We know there's a problem, there are constant failed tests to remind us there are a problem. It doesn't mean that athletics is worse or better than other sports, just that the governing bodies are more willing to do something about it that most other sports.

Djoucer · 03-05-2018 12:37pm

https://www.fastrunning.com/opinion/comment/dont-add-one-one-together-get-two-thousand-doping-kenyans/15659

Running with Kenyans author shares his thoughts.

Recently read the book and found it a bit naive in parts.

Subtle · 03-05-2018 12:37pm

Tell me how wrote: »

sports stars have tools (PED) to significantly improve performance and the difference in rewards for being in the top .1% versus the top 1% are huge.

Actually, that's all ringing a bell now in relation to the original discussion I was trying to recall - it was all about taking a little something to just get that edge.

And it's already happening in other areas as you suggest, e.g. apparently with top programmers in the IT world etc. But the use of PEDs doesn't really get seen as cheating in my eyes, more like getting the most from your body (or brain) and maximising your potential. That's probably the underlying issue.

Edit: Sorry, derailing this thread. Will park things here.

youngrun · 03-05-2018 12:40pm

pconn062 wrote: »

I think UP's point is that people do talk about the problem in athletics, the whole time. Hence people have this notion that athletics is waaay worse than other sports and come out with statements like "I have zero faith left in athletics" because they thing it's way worse than other sports, when it's not. It's just that athletics, unlike a lot of other sports actually tries to deal with it head on.

We know there's a problem, there are constant failed tests to remind us there are a problem. It doesn't mean that athletics is worse or better than other sports, just that the governing bodies are more willing to do something about it that most other sports.

Human nature and the desire to win and be first comes into sport as well.
Will we ever get rid of doping or competitive advantage via illegal/underhand ways?
Seems to have been going on forever and without seriously draconian penalties eg loss of career/imprisonment etc not going to change

Chivito550 · 03-05-2018 12:58pm

sideswipe wrote: »

Possibly true, but endurance based sports like athletics and cycling are far more influenced by cheating.

Please tell me you don't genuinely believe this.

It's the biggest myth in sport.

Because EPO has zero effect on a footballer who would otherwise be out on his feet in the 85th minute of the match, or tennis players involved in 30+ shot rallies after 5 hours in 35 degree Aussie heat, or rugby players who are now the side of military tanks.

Wake up.

Chivito550 · 03-05-2018 1:02pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Success, fame, money.

How much research would it take to confirm this?

Bingo. And which sport provides more money and fame, football or athletics?

03-05-2018 1:10pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

Please tell me you don't genuinely believe this.

It's the biggest myth in sport.

Because EPO has zero effect on a footballer who would otherwise be out on his feet in the 85th minute of the match, or tennis players involved in 30+ shot rallies after 5 hours in 35 degree Aussie heat, or rugby players who are now the side of military tanks.

Wake up.

The biggest benefits are in "simple" sports. Powerlifting, weight-lifting, running, cycling, baseball. They're all limited movements, be good at one thing. Of course they'll help in basketball/football/whatever but will be more help to a runner than a pole-vaulter for example.

rom · 03-05-2018 1:10pm

Djoucer wrote: »

https://www.fastrunning.com/opinion/comment/dont-add-one-one-together-get-two-thousand-doping-kenyans/15659

Running with Kenyans author shares his thoughts.

Recently read the book and found it a bit naive in parts.

So a few years back I did do the sums. So I put every marathon Rosa athlete best time yearly into a table and from 2009 to 2013/14 there is a huge pattern of improvements due to better training techniques.

Some where shocked that Jeptoo was caught after her medium raise from a 2:30 to a 2:19 runner over a handful of years when her sister who also made the same improvements over the exact same time did it all without PEDs. Its clear that PEDs don't work.

Chivito550 · 03-05-2018 1:17pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The biggest benefits are in "simple" sports. Powerlifting, weight-lifting, running, cycling, baseball. They're all limited movements, be good at one thing. Of course they'll help in basketball/football/whatever but will be more help to a runner than a pole-vaulter for example.

Again, that’s absolutely untrue. If you’re exhausted, then your skills are useless. If you can’t run fast, your skills will be less useful to you against guys who can run fast.

Your point would be valid back in the old amateur rugby days when they trained twice a week and hydration involved pints of Old Arthur’s Finest, and fueling involved trips to Leo Burdocks!

Professional sport these days is very scientific and fitness is an integral part.

hmmm · 03-05-2018 1:27pm

As a non-regular in this forum, I'd be like most people I think - competitive athletics is dead to me as a sport or something I enjoy watching. We cannot have confidence that anything we are watching is "real". I don't really see a fix unfortunately, as there's the strong possibility that some countries are already producing effectively untraceable genetically modified children to compete in the future. Perhaps it's time to give up on top-level Athletics, and focus on preventing drug use at the lower levels of competition?

On the other hand, something like the Winter Olympics was hugely entertaining, mostly because many of the sports required a combination of fitness and skill which would be difficult to simply dope up for.

Chivito550 · 03-05-2018 1:29pm

The reaction of knownothings everytime an athlete tests positive only validates the stance of the likes of FIFA, ATP, NFL etc (do enough to be seen to be doing something, with no genuine interest in busting high profile names).

Everytime an athlete gets done you’ve got mass hysteria and people writing off the sport, bad publicity etc. If I was CEO of the ATP, I’d be looking at this and thinking that this is something we can do without. Why tell the world of a problem they are oblivious to. Let athletics and cycling take the brunt of it, while we keep our heads down and ride the cash cow.

I adore tennis by the way. It’s my second favourite sport, so I’ve got no vendetta against it. I’m calling it the way it is.

Anytime I even try to discuss the topic on the tennis forum, nobody bites. Tennis fans just don’t seem to care.

There’s a lot of double standards in sport.

Chivito550 · 03-05-2018 1:33pm

hmmm wrote: »

As a non-regular in this forum, I'd be like most people I think - competitive athletics is dead to me as a sport or something I enjoy watching. We cannot have confidence that anything we are watching is "real". I don't really see a fix unfortunately, as there's the strong possibility that some countries are already producing effectively untraceable genetically modified children to compete in the future. Perhaps it's time to give up on top-level Athletics, and focus on preventing drug use at the lower levels of competition?

On the other hand, something like the Winter Olympics was hugely entertaining, mostly because many of the sports required a combination of fitness and skill which would be difficult to simply dope up for.

Facepalm.

Do you not know about what the Russians did at the Sochi Winter Games?

Birdie Num Num · 03-05-2018 1:36pm

hmmm wrote: »

As a non-regular in this forum, I'd be like most people I think - competitive athletics is dead to me as a sport or something I enjoy watching. We cannot have confidence that anything we are watching is "real". I don't really see a fix unfortunately, as there's the strong possibility that some countries are already producing effectively untraceable genetically modified children to compete in the future. Perhaps it's time to give up on top-level Athletics, and focus on preventing drug use at the lower levels of competition?

On the other hand, something like the Winter Olympics was hugely entertaining, mostly because many of the sports required a combination of fitness and skill which would be difficult to simply dope up for.

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not here. Sochi? Even Pyeongchang had doping suspensions in various sports; Bobsleigh, Speed skating, Ice hockey...

Then again they all get called 'Athletes'

rom · 03-05-2018 1:40pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

Again, that’s absolutely untrue. If you’re exhausted, then your skills are useless. If you can’t run fast, your skills will be less useful to you against guys who can run fast.

Your point would be valid back in the old amateur rugby days when they trained twice a week and hydration involved pints of Old Arthur’s Finest, and fueling involved trips to Leo Burdocks!

Professional sport these days is very scientific and fitness is an integral part.

Basically they are saying that a sport like athletics where if you got 2.5M pounds in prize/appearance fees over your career you would be a Mo Farah they are corrupt but in something like a English premiership player where 2.5M pounds is the avg yearly salary there is no corruption or drug taking of any kind. Why don't you understand this

rom · 03-05-2018 1:44pm

btw this page is trending in the first page in boards so expect an influx of people who have no clue what they are talking about but have very strong opinions.

Pherekydes · 03-05-2018 1:48pm

rom wrote: »

btw this page is trending in the first page in boards so expect an influx of people who have no clue what they are talking about but have very strong opinions.

Team sports fans?

:pac:

sideswipe · 03-05-2018 2:12pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

Please tell me you don't genuinely believe this.

It's the biggest myth in sport.

Because EPO has zero effect on a footballer who would otherwise be out on his feet in the 85th minute of the match, or tennis players involved in 30+ shot rallies after 5 hours in 35 degree Aussie heat, or rugby players who are now the side of military tanks.

Wake up.

Read what I said again....... I said has more of an effect on endurance athletes, where did I say has zero effect?? Rugby players are a whole other ball game (excuse the pun) when it comes to performance enhancement- the act of bulking up at school levels up is a big problem. The simple fact is, when it comes to the pack bigger is better.

For all those examples you gave I think it's fair to say that people can achieve individual and team success without chemical intervention, it's getting to the point in athletics and cycling were there are clouds of doubt over all the top stars. We have a situation of hand me down medals years after events where the people who placed are getting stripped because of retrospective bans, that's just depressing.

How is it fixed? I'm not sure it's possible hence why I said I'd be reluctant to encourage my kids into the sport I love if they had the talent.

Chivito550 · 03-05-2018 2:47pm

sideswipe wrote: »

Read what I said again....... I said has more of an effect on endurance athletes, where did I say has zero effect?? Rugby players are a whole other ball game (excuse the pun) when it comes to performance enhancement- the act of bulking up at school levels up is a big problem. The simple fact is, when it comes to the pack bigger is better.

For all those examples you gave I think it's fair to say that people can achieve individual and team success without chemical intervention, it's getting to the point in athletics and cycling were there are clouds of doubt over all the top stars. We have a situation of hand me down medals years after events where the people who placed are getting stripped because of retrospective bans, that's just depressing.

How is it fixed? I'm not sure it's possible hence why I said I'd be reluctant to encourage my kids into the sport I love if they had the talent.

How can you actually say it has more of an effect in athletics than other sports? Is that because athletes are measured by the clock so improvements can be seen easily, while improvements are more anecdotal in other sports.

Doping is huge in every sport. People wouldn’t be doing it if they could get by on skill. Doping can be that 1% that decides a close game late on. No different to athletics. Small margins.

Also, there’s plenty of skill in athletics. I train as a sprinter (albeit at a much lower level) and the amount of stuff you have to think of to run in the most efficient manner possible is crazy, not to mention starting out of blocks. There’s a reason why people laud Allyson Felix’s technique, because it is so damn hard to achieve, and most elites can’t even run to such a level of perfection.

walshb · 03-05-2018 3:14pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

Doping is huge in every sport..

Care to actually show this? I mean actually show it....

how huge is it in snooker and darts and golf?

Tennis?

I'd like actual facts and cases where cheating was confirmed. Not hearsay and innuendo and wishing it the case....

Doping in sports happens, but some sports it happens more because some sports (athletes) need it and benefit more from it in terms of results and differences....

Sports like athletics and cycling where so much of the sport is physical exertion.....it stands to reason you will have a lot more people looking the help their bodies here as compared to golf, for example.

Even tennis.......it's tough, but no way near as physically draining on the body as some track events or cycling events....

No issue bringing in other sports, but trying to compare them as being all the same as regards their doping levels is bonkers.

walshb · 03-05-2018 3:15pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

Also, there’s plenty of skill in athletics. I train as a sprinter (albeit at a much lower level) and the amount of stuff you have to think of to run in the most efficient manner possible is crazy, not to mention starting out of blocks. There’s a reason why people laud Allyson Felix’s technique, because it is so damn hard to achieve, and most elites can’t even run to such a level of perfection.

Allyson Felix is more natural than technique. Some runners are naturally more gifted...she doesn't need to train that hard to run that way.....simply needs to train hard to run faster.

Skill levels in soccer and tennis and boxing and some other sports are way more than skill levels in running.....way more....

Chivito550 · 03-05-2018 3:34pm

walshb wrote: »

Care to actually show this? I mean actually show it....

how huge is it in snooker and darts and golf?

Tennis?

I'd like actual facts and cases where cheating was confirmed. Not hearsay and innuendo and wishing it the case....

Doping in sports happens, but some sports it happens more because some sports (athletes) need it and benefit more from it in terms of results and differences....

Sports like athletics and cycling where so much of the sport is physical exertion.....it stands to reason you will have a lot more people looking the help their bodies here as compared to golf, for example.

Even tennis.......it's tough, but no way near as physically draining on the body as some track events or cycling events....

No issue bringing in other sports, but trying to compare them as being all the same as regards their doping levels is bonkers.

Any sport where physical fitness is so crucial, doping has the potential to be a real game changer.

Tennis is an incredibly physical sport these days. The serve and volley days are dead. Courts are slower, rallies are longer, and matches are longer. The players are out in the sun for up to 5 hours, in intsense 15, 20, 30+ stroke rallies. The game has changed enormously from days gone by. The guys who can last the pace of long best of 5 set matches over 7 matches tend to succeed.

Interesting you mention golf. Read up on Gary Player’s comments. Doping was rampant in baseball in the 1990s. I’m not saying it’s as rampant in golf, but if there are benefits in baseball (hitting home runs) then there are benefits in gold (getting an extra 20-30 yards off the tee.

There are countless cases of doping in Olympic shooting. Again, not saying doping is as prevalent in snooker (or at all prevalent), but there’s no doubting there would be benefits.

I stand by my comment that doping is huge in all sports. Anything that can be the difference between winning and losing is huge.

walshb · 03-05-2018 3:38pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

I stand by my comment that doping is huge in all sports. Anything that can be the difference between winning and losing is huge.

You stand by comments with nothing to back them up with apart from hearsay and anecdotal "evidence."

Can you not understand or accept that certain sports like athletics and cycling will be more rife with PEDs due to the nature of said sports?

Other more skill based sports, won't have the same need or desire. Not saying they won't have doping, juts that doping is not as needed or desired for what the sports are about.

So, doping is huge in all sports.......

You really believe that it's huge in snooker and golf and darts? You need to start being realistic and debating this sensibly. Start by taking back this silly claim.

walshb · 03-05-2018 3:42pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

Tennis is an incredibly physical sport these days. The serve and volley days are dead. Courts are slower, rallies are longer, and matches are longer. The players are out in the sun for up to 5 hours, in intsense 15, 20, 30+ stroke rallies. The game has changed enormously from days gone by. The guys who can last the pace of long best of 5 set matches over 7 matches tend to succeed.

No issue with saying that tennis is a sport that could benefit from PEDs, but it is still not as widespread as it is in athletics and cycling. That is because the skills factors in tennis are that much greater and higher. It's a skills and fitness based sport. Cycling and track running are hugely fitness based sports. Tennis is a mix, with most of it being skill.

Had this debate before. Tennis players are out for 3-4-5 hours, but they are not playing or exerting themselves to the same levels as many athletes. Plenty of breaks and lulls and refreshments available for tennis players during matches. It is not near the fitness/cardio levels of say milers or 5 and 10 k runners......hence the need and desire to risk taking PEDs is not near the same. This is simple logic.

Ask RF to run a mile under 6 minutes and I bet he'd be carted off the track.......

Chivito550 · 03-05-2018 3:52pm

walshb wrote: »

You stand by comments with nothing to back them up with apart from hearsay and anecdotal "evidence."

Can you not understand or accept that certain sports like athletics and cycling will be more rife with PEDs due to the nature of said sports?

Other more skill based sports, won't have the same need or desire. Not saying they won't have doping, juts that doping is not as needed or desired for what the sports are about.

So, doping is huge in all sports.......

You really believe that it's huge in snooker and golf and darts? You need to start being realistic and debating this sensibly. Start by taking back this silly claim.

But other sports have the following:

1) Higher incentive: While incentive to win is equal across all sports, the financial rewards are far higher in the likes of football and tennis than in athletics
2) Lower risk: The chance of actually getting caught for doping in the likes of football and tennis is considerably lower than in athletics.

Do I need to educate you about the concept of Risk V Reward?

In the business world high risk can mean high reward.

Now imagine if the risks were low (more like non-existent), and the rewards were insanely high? Why wouldn’t somebody dope.

Kiprop tests positive for EPO

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