VW Neo (eGolf replacement)

Shefwedfan · 23-04-2018 10:49am #1

After a lot of concept photo's/videos knocking around for a long time some pictures released for a more production type version of the Neo

See website: https://www.cleanthinking.de/elektroauto-vw-neo-volkswagen-auto/

You will need to translate but the main numbers are
Expected to be released in 2019 but I would expect 2020 for Ireland to buy
30k to buy in Germany(probably similar money to eGolf here so 35k)
400km version with optional long range 600km version. This is inline with all the press releases over the last 12 months
Interior is bigger than eGolf, similar to Passat size. But car itself is shorter than eGolf. Again this was already discussed
8 sec to 100km/h....not sure how this compares to others
The photos of interior so far are the 4 seater concept but it was always going to have similar layout of the eGolf. Expect not a whole pile to change from the standard VW layout

Some other information from other website
Europe will get the Neo first. The Crozz(SUV) will be released in America first. Then after initial release the Crozz will be sold in Europe and the Neo will get released to US market. This is seemingly because the US market like SUV's instead of cars....we are getting more & more like the American's....

The Buzz will be released in 2022. Probably to US market first.

The ID range is based on same platform. This will then be released to the rest of VW(Audi/Seat/Skoda etc) so expect to see lots of versions of this cars in the coming years.

Oafley Jones · 23-04-2018 11:44am

I find the Golf (an VWs in general )to be one of the most boring cars on earth, but I really like the look of that. Looks like I'll be waiting a long time for seven seater in the electric space though.

Shefwedfan · 23-04-2018 12:07pm

Oafley Jones wrote: »

I find the Golf (an VWs in general )to be one of the most boring cars on earth, but I really like the look of that. Looks like I'll be waiting a long time for seven seater in the electric space though.

It does depend on your taste. Personally I like the VW layout, not sure if it is due to familiarity more than anything.

I can't stand the Toyota's and not a huge fan of BMW's.....

I do like the look of the Neo now it is more like production version. The concept was awful looking.....

Y2K86 · 23-04-2018 2:47pm

Looks like it will be 48kWh battery from Samsung SDI as speculated early this year

Plant opened in Hungary last month, must be going well with this news

For 35k its nice

48kWh should be good for 300km real world and 170bhp motor is plenty quick

Looking forward to this one

23-04-2018 3:26pm

170 HP is pretty, Meh ! But looks good all the same. RWD is good news though, it makes a lot more sense in instant torque vehicles, much more than FWD.

A high performance version would be cool especially considering Nissan are planning 200 Hp Leaf.

Orebro · 23-04-2018 3:54pm

Y2K86 wrote: »

Looks like it will be 48kWh battery from Samsung SDI as speculated early this year

Plant opened in Hungary last month, must be going well with this news

For 35k its nice

48kWh should be good for 300km real world and 170bhp motor is plenty quick

Looking forward to this one

Thierry? Is that you?

redlead · 23-04-2018 8:04pm

Looks like this will probably be the best EV on the market when it comes out. Looks great and the range is very good. Why would it be 5k more here than in Germany considering the VRT discount?

Its interesting that on the EVs with their own platform that the wheelbase is so much bigger than on Ice cars of the same size. This has the cabin space of a Passat despite being the size of a Polo. Presumably the boot will still be tiny though unfortunately.

Shefwedfan · 23-04-2018 9:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

170 HP is pretty, Meh ! But looks good all the same. RWD is good news though, it makes a lot more sense in instant torque vehicles, much more than FWD.

A high performance version would be cool especially considering Nissan are planning 200 Hp Leaf.

I dont think any car manufacturer will be too concerned about what Nissan get up to....

It took them how many year to release Leaf 2 and they made a complete balls of it...

I would expect this 200 HP Leaf could be a few years off yet....

ELM327 · 24-04-2018 8:42am

Orebro wrote: »

Thierry? Is that you?

IN fairness it was obvious from the first post I saw.
Not that it matters.

KCross · 24-04-2018 9:27am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I dont think any car manufacturer will be too concerned about what Nissan get up to....

It took them how many year to release Leaf 2 and they made a complete balls of it...

I would expect this 200 HP Leaf could be a few years off yet....

Around the same time as this concept Neo then!

unkel · 24-04-2018 11:55am

Bring on more competition!

If the Neo will retail in Germany for €30k, it should be about the same here (we have higher VAT, but also more generous subsidies - compare Ioniq is €29k here and €33k minus €4k subsidy in Germany)

Which means 200BHP 60kWh Leaf should be less than €26k (this would be brutal for resale value of 40kWh Leaf if the car was available next year, but I doubt it is, I'd say it will be 2020 before we have one on Irish plates)

So prices going down and range / power going up. Bring it on!

KCross · 24-04-2018 12:08pm

unkel wrote: »

If the Neo will retail in Germany for €30k, it should be about the same here (we have higher VAT, but also more generous subsidies - compare Ioniq is €29k here and €33k minus €4k subsidy in Germany)

Which means 200BHP 60kWh Leaf should be less than €26k (this would be brutal for resale value of 40kWh Leaf if the car was available next year, but I doubt it is, I'd say it will be 2020 before we have one on Irish plates)

What logic did you use to come to that conclusion? I cant see a 60kWh Leaf retailing for €26k.

If the concept Neo makes it to market here for €30k (also unlikely imo based on how they price the eGolf) it will be for the "short range" version.... not the long range version, which is what will compete with the 60kWh Leaf.

Note, maybe its meaning is lost in google translate but alot of that article is "should" and "rumour" so I wouldnt believe the €30k figure in Germany to begin with. Could be just click bait.

ELM327 · 24-04-2018 12:33pm

KCross wrote: »

What logic did you use to come to that conclusion? I cant see a 60kWh Leaf retailing for €26k.

If the concept Neo makes it to market here for €30k (also unlikely imo based on how they price the eGolf) it will be for the "short range" version.... not the long range version, which is what will compete with the 60kWh Leaf.

Note, maybe its meaning is lost in google translate but alot of that article is "should" and "rumour" so I wouldnt believe the €30k figure in Germany to begin with. Could be just click bait.

Literal from the article
Price:
"der weniger als 30.000 Euro kosten soll." That means it should cost less than 30k, but it's not firm.

Range:
"Die Reichweite des VW Neo soll bei mindestens 400 Kilometern liegen" Range should be around 400km
Range - longrange
"eine Version mit einer größeren Batterie geplant. Diese könnte dann für stattliche 600 Kilometer Reichweite sorgen." There is a version planned with a bigger battery, 600km range.

It's an interesting article but there's nothing confirmed in stone.

Shefwedfan · 24-04-2018 12:56pm

KCross wrote: »

Around the same time as this concept Neo then!

This is the concept.

Small details, like the concept had video cameras as mirror, they are gone.

Proper lights in front. VW badge changed back to standard badge.

I would say that car in link is not a million miles away from production

id.jpg?itok=ogvZntXP

KCross · 24-04-2018 1:12pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Literal from the article
Price:
"der weniger als 30.000 Euro kosten soll." That means it should cost less than 30k, but it's not firm.

Range:
"Die Reichweite des VW Neo soll bei mindestens 400 Kilometern liegen" Range should be around 400km
Range - longrange
"eine Version mit einer größeren Batterie geplant. Diese könnte dann für stattliche 600 Kilometer Reichweite sorgen." There is a version planned with a bigger battery, 600km range.

It's an interesting article but there's nothing confirmed in stone.

I agree. Its closer to click bait than anything else.

24-04-2018 1:21pm

It looks like an excellent option in the lower end of the market. Were the expected production volumes mentioned in the article?

unkel · 24-04-2018 1:29pm

KCross wrote: »

What logic did you use to come to that conclusion? I cant see a 60kWh Leaf retailing for €26k.

If a VW with similar range / power can come to market for €30k, then a non-premium (higher depreciation) car like a Leaf etc. can not be sold for anywhere near that price level, so take a haircut of 10-15% off that

Same as at the moment 2018 Leaf about €30k, 2018 eGolf about €35k. Both are selling all the cars that they can supply at these prices

I can't see a 60kWh Leaf retailing for €26k myself at current prices, but with more competition and considerably cheaper batteries in 2 years time, it looks quite likely (provided we still have the €10k subsidy, which is far from certain)

KCross · 24-04-2018 1:47pm

unkel wrote: »

If a VW with similar range / power can come to market for €30k, then a non-premium (higher depreciation) car like a Leaf etc. can not be sold for anywhere near that price level, so take a haircut of 10-15% off that

I agree a Nissan wont command the same price as a VW... but the thing is, even if the concept Neo is at €30k thats likely for its entry level short range version hence competing with the 40kWh not 60kWh.

The 40kWh Leaf is €4k less than that already, so I cant see them needing to drop it any further?

The 60kWh Leaf wont be competing with a short range Neo so I cant see a 60kWh Leaf for €26k for a very long time.

unkel wrote: »

I can't see a 60kWh Leaf retailing for €26k myself at current prices, but with more competition and considerably cheaper batteries in 2 years time, it looks quite likely (provided we still have the €10k subsidy, which is far from certain)

The "cheap" batteries might not happen at all. There was a report recently (i posted it before somewhere on here) that beyond 2020 that battery prices would stabilise or might rise due to demand. The raw material prices have gone through the roof in the last year.

Competition might drive prices down alright but only if the other manufacturers deliver volume and that has been hopeless to date.... 300 Ioniq's last year... FFS!

EDIT: This was the battery article and it came from Hyundai.... https://electrek.co/2017/12/13/battery-costs-stop-falling-2020-demand-electric-cars-hyundai/

Shefwedfan · 24-04-2018 6:41pm

samih wrote: »

It looks like an excellent option in the lower end of the market. Were the expected production volumes mentioned in the article?

If Nissan are selling at 30k you can be sure VW will not be at 30k

The VW version will not be aimed for the mid-higher end of the market. The lower end will be the Skoda/Seat version

Based on that alone I cannot see it selling here for 30k. I would expect to be at the same price as eGolf. It's not like they are not selling the eGolf. They can't get enough of them....

If they did price the VW version at 30k then would will they expect you to pay for the Skoda version? 20k? now that would mean VW would kill all competition....

Dont get me wrong, I would love if I could buy the replacement for 30k but I just can't see it happening.....

beauf · 26-04-2018 7:47pm

Quarter lights. The designer needs a slap to cop on. Its not the 1970's.

Y2K86 · 27-04-2018 2:38am

Orebro wrote: »

Thierry? Is that you?

Who?

ewj1978 · 27-04-2018 9:45am

Would be mad if they allowed Skoda to bring out EVs. I'd buy one tomorrow. It'd be the same underpinning as a VW without the cost.

RamboJambo · 27-04-2018 9:54am

You're all off your heads if you think you'll be able to buy this for less than €30k inc subsidies here! This'll be €35k+

Ryath · 27-04-2018 10:06am

ewj1978 wrote: »

Would be mad if they allowed Skoda to bring out EVs. I'd buy one tomorrow. It'd be the same underpinning as a VW without the cost.

They're that much cheaper anymore an 0ctavia is only about €1k less than a Golf's RRP given same spec/engine size. Seat is better difference is closer to €2k. You will get a better discount with Skoda/Seat but on the other hand VW residuals are better. A Leon FR 184 worked out about €1.5k cheaper for us than what we were quoted for a 1.6tdi Highline Golf.

lawred2 · 27-04-2018 10:07am

like something out of minority report

27-04-2018 10:08am

Well VW have been promising this to undercut their current offerings and Irish subsidies are better than in Germany. But the real question is what their planned production numbers are. They would not want to cannibalise existing ICE sales but at the same in Germany at least the diesel sales are at virtual freefall after cities are planning and now given go ahead to limit access to cities when air quality is poor.

So at least in their home market they'll need this on sale quickly and in large numbers. On other markets like in Ireland where diesel sales are still somewhat holding there is no immediate rush.

Dardania · 27-04-2018 10:13am

I can see the German unions trying to keep the electric vehicle underpinnings for the German brands, and leave the ICE platforms to Skoda & Seat. Would be perfect way for them to sustain their relatively higher wages into the future, and isolate the the VAG competitors

Ryath · 27-04-2018 10:14am

lawred2 wrote: »

like something out of minority report

Except for the alloys I quite like it but it's the same with most EV's as they're designed for aerodynamics not aesthetics. Hopefully it's out next year it's definitely in the running for my wife's next car and in the long run I quite like the Buzz for myself.

lawred2 · 27-04-2018 10:21am

that Buzz is going to be everywhere in the likes of California etc

Y2K86 · 27-04-2018 11:33pm

RamboJambo wrote: »

You're all off your heads if you think you'll be able to buy this for less than €30k inc subsidies here! This'll be €35k+

Maybe not less than 30k, they will be competive

They are buying batteries cheaper than any automaker with the €20billion agreement with LG, SAM SDI, CATL

https://www.google.ie/amp/www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/articleViewAmp.html%3fidxno=21085

DaveyDave · 28-04-2018 3:44pm

If you could get one with 2-3 of the usual extras for €35k that would be pretty sweet. They could do without the curve on the rear door though, this isn't a Leon

I don't like the front of it though, seems a bit soft and bubbly...

Shefwedfan · 22-05-2018 6:55pm

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/volkswagen-id-hatch-stay-true-concept-says-design-boss

Priced similar to diesel version sounds interesting

VW could be into a real winner here

Royale with Cheese · 22-05-2018 7:00pm

Can you not get it with something approaching a normal set of alloys? I don't care if it adds a few percent to the battery life, they look ridiculous.

Shefwedfan · 22-05-2018 7:26pm

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Can you not get it with something approaching a normal set of alloys? I don't care if it adds a few percent to the battery life, they look ridiculous.

I would doubt they will make production

The current alloys on the eGolf will probably be used

Royale with Cheese · 23-05-2018 11:45am

The eGolf alloys... possibly even worse. Does anyone know how much more efficient those filled in style alloys you see on EVs are? I would happily swap them out for something more traditional if it didn't make a huge difference to the range.

unkel · 23-05-2018 11:56am

It all adds a little bit. The wheels, the eco tyre, aerodynamics, regenerative braking, efficient heatpump heating and indeed pre-heating, LED lighting, etc. People have to realise that a current generation EV only has about 10% of the energy on board compared to a similar ICE car. So efficiency can be quite important to make the range as much more than 10% of the range of an ICE as possible

Personally, I'll change the Michelin ECO tyres on my EV to ones that provide more grip, particularly in the wet, next time. At the expense of less range.

Royale with Cheese · 23-05-2018 12:52pm

Anything under 10% of the range affected and I think I'd be happy to swap them out. A nice set of alloys is probably the thing I value most in the aesthetics of a car, the difference they can make is huge.

Actually Teslas have normal/nice looking alloys. They even give you a range of sizes on the model S. It can't make that much difference?

redlead · 23-05-2018 12:52pm

unkel wrote: »

Personally, I'll change the Michelin ECO tyres on my EV to ones that provide more grip, particularly in the wet, next time. At the expense of less range.

Is the difference very noticeable?

Shefwedfan · 23-05-2018 3:24pm

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

The eGolf alloys... possibly even worse. Does anyone know how much more efficient those filled in style alloys you see on EVs are? I would happily swap them out for something more traditional if it didn't make a huge difference to the range.

A lot of people in the US have swapped the alloys for more "standard" ones

I actually like the cheese grator as they are commonly known

Make the car look distinctive

No idea on range, I can ask

DaveyDave · 23-05-2018 5:32pm

I think the biggest problem I have with the alloys on the eGolf is the size. 16" is too small. I know they're that size for a reason but I'm sure the sacrifice would be worth it to go 17". I think the size would show off the design a bit better too.

I think small alloys have a paddy spec look to them. A neighbor had a 172 Highline and now has a 181 Comfortline and the 16" just don't look right. Too much rubber.

Could also be a comfort thing, I presume the extra weight would need higher tyre pressure?

redlead · 23-05-2018 8:26pm

DaveyDave wrote: »

I think the biggest problem I have with the alloys on the eGolf is the size. 16" is too small. I know they're that size for a reason but I'm sure the sacrifice would be worth it to go 17". I think the size would show off the design a bit better too.

I think small alloys have a paddy spec look to them. A neighbor had a 172 Highline and now has a 181 Comfortline and the 16" just don't look right. Too much rubber.

To be fair, 16s are more than big enough on a small car like a golf. I have 16s on a Passat and they look fine. I have 19s on a 3008 which I think are needed because it's an SUV. 18s would be fine too. Depends on the type of car

I think the bigger the wheel the less economical and harder the ride in general? Could be wrong... I never notice any difference to be honest

Shefwedfan · 23-05-2018 8:36pm

redlead wrote: »

To be fair, 16s are more than big enough on a small car like a golf. I have 16s on a Passat and they look fine. I have 19s on a 3008 which I think are needed because it's an SUV. 18s would be fine too. Depends on the type of car

I think the bigger the wheel the less economical and harder the ride in general? Could be wrong... I never notice any difference to be honest

Bigger alloys mean they are less energy efficient....that is what I was told anyway

DaveyDave · 23-05-2018 10:32pm

The extra weight of the wheels is rotational weight so it's more of an effect than putting the same weight in the boot. The 17" wheels on my Golf add .1L/100km and a small co2 increase.

KCross · 26-09-2018 5:42pm

Not a whole lot more detail but worth reading anyway....
https://electrek.co/2018/09/24/vw-neo-electric-car-battery-configurations-price-report/

Snippets....
3 different battery sizes with entry level WLTP range of 330km and mid-range model at 450km!

7kW and 11kW (3 phase) AC charging. The 11kW probably wont be for Ireland though, imo.

Upto 125kW DC charging. Will be interesting to see what the charge profile is.

reveal at the end of 2019. Will they deliver RHD for 201 or will they sort LHD first and it will be 202 before we see it here?

I'm still skeptical of the $30k price though. I cant see that happening based on the prices of the current EV's on the market. I suppse they also have Paddy spec to bring the price down!

Shefwedfan · 26-09-2018 5:55pm

KCross wrote: »

Not a whole lot more detail but worth reading anyway....
https://electrek.co/2018/09/24/vw-neo-electric-car-battery-configurations-price-report/

Snippets....
3 different battery sizes with entry level WLTP range of 330km and mid-range model at 450km!

7kW and 11kW (3 phase) AC charging. The 11kW probably wont be for Ireland though, imo.

Upto 125kW DC charging. Will be interesting to see what the charge profile is.

reveal at the end of 2019. Will they deliver RHD for 201 or will they sort LHD first and it will be 202 before we see it here?

I'm still skeptical of the $30k price though. I cant see that happening based on the prices of the current EV's on the market. I suppse they also have Paddy spec to bring the price down!

Oh yee of little faith....

This is very interesting read
https://insideevs.com/insideevs-vw-gets-electric-car-scoop/

2025 have 50 different electric cars available, don't see any other manufacturing even coming close to that

Already changed a factory from combustion engine to electric. So know how long it takes and how to do it...

Impressive

unkel · 26-09-2018 11:23pm

Still a long time away

KCross wrote: »

3 different battery sizes with entry level WLTP range of 330km and mid-range model at 450km!

That's quite interesting. It suggests about 45kWh for the base model and 60kWh for the mid-range. Long range then perhaps 75kWh?

If we still have the €5k subsidy and zero VRT (for budget cars) when the car comes (big if!), the $30k for the base model should translate to no more than about €28-29k

27-09-2018 11:55am

I find it most most interesting that VW says the Neo will 30 percent less expensive to make than the e-Golf which sounds promising. The car will first debut with (Korean) NCM 622 cells from Samsung before changing to LG NCM 811 from the Polish factory.

Brera · 27-09-2018 2:50pm

samih wrote: »

I find it most most interesting that VW says the Neo will 30 percent less expensive to make than the e-Golf which sounds promising. The car will first debut with (Korean) NCM 622 cells from Samsung before changing to LG NCM 811 from the Polish factory.

I’m guessing that will be the benefit of having a whole new EV platform. VW have been saving money for years through its use of shared platforms

The e-golf struck me as a box ticking exercise. It seems VW is making a serious move now.

Shefwedfan · 27-09-2018 3:16pm

samih wrote: »

I find it most most interesting that VW says the Neo will 30 percent less expensive to make than the e-Golf which sounds promising. The car will first debut with (Korean) NCM 622 cells from Samsung before changing to LG NCM 811 from the Polish factory.

The eGolf was never designed to be electric so it was never going to be cost effective. They made a hell of a job of it but really it is a combustion engine car converted to electric car.

The Nio is designed from ground up so they will be able to see better manufacturing procedures etc. It seems the eGolf is not that easy to manufacture, hence the low numbers....

Also because this is designed for electric they can replicate it for many other cars, e.g. 50, and the cost per unit is driven down. But 1,000 of 1 part then price is X, buy 1 million of a part and price is Y

Shefwedfan · 30-09-2018 10:17pm

More and more information coming out and it looks like VW are onto a winner

http://elektroautovergleich.org/2018/09/elektroautos-von-volkswagen-ab-25000-e-soll-es-losgehen/

In German but the main bits to note....using google translate

the electric driving at Volkswagen from 2020 starting from 25000 €. But in turn, because Volkswagen calls its platform MEB and this works like a kit. All 11 Group brands can pick out the suitable electromobile components from this modular MEB kit, and then their own brand such as Skoda, Seat, etc. is glued to the car. So different brands share a platform and you can take advantage of huge mass production.

The ID should cost as entry-level model only € 25,000, but then this entry-level model of the electric Golf has only a battery capacity of 48 kWh and a range of only 330 kilometers.

With the entry-level brand of € 25,000 we finally achieve cost parity for the compact vehicles. Today, a roughly comparable diesel golf costs about € 29,000, Please note these are German prices

Based on the above, Leaf/Kona/Niro etc will all be overpriced compared to the ID range......

Brera · 30-09-2018 11:47pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

More and more information coming out and it looks like VW are onto a winner

http://elektroautovergleich.org/2018/09/elektroautos-von-volkswagen-ab-25000-e-soll-es-losgehen/

In German but the main bits to note....using google translate

the electric driving at Volkswagen from 2020 starting from 25000 €. But in turn, because Volkswagen calls its platform MEB and this works like a kit. All 11 Group brands can pick out the suitable electromobile components from this modular MEB kit, and then their own brand such as Skoda, Seat, etc. is glued to the car. So different brands share a platform and you can take advantage of huge mass production.

The ID should cost as entry-level model only € 25,000, but then this entry-level model of the electric Golf has only a battery capacity of 48 kWh and a range of only 330 kilometers.

With the entry-level brand of € 25,000 we finally achieve cost parity for the compact vehicles. Today, a roughly comparable diesel golf costs about € 29,000, Please note these are German prices

Based on the above, Leaf/Kona/Niro etc will all be overpriced compared to the ID range......

This is what will really be a “Tesla Killer”. VW build quality and a cost starting at €25,000

The big question is do VW have enough battery capacity lined up to meet demand

I also wonder what will the largest battery capacity be ?
They have talked about a middle of the range capacity offering 450km I’m guessing that would be around 64 kWH similar to the Kona and Niro. So could the largest one be 80 kWH ?

Off topic slight but I saw a piece the other day about the Mercedes EQB undergoing testing and the rumours are it will be available with a 100KW battery pack !!

VW Neo (eGolf replacement)

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