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Morrissey denounces Halal meat as "evil" attacks Theresa May and Sadiq Khan

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Comments

  • #62
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,577 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Summer In the City wrote: »
    They are. Lots of animals are killed halal in Ireland for export. The animal just has to be alive before the throat is slit. No problem stunning the animal first.

    Some are stunned, while others do not.
    So it's not as simple as yes or no they don't.

    In the North there was protests last year at a Dungannon-based meat processing firm due to it's 'processing methods'.

    UK law requires animals to be pre-stunned before slaughter in 'normal circumstances', there is an 'exemption' for Jewish and Muslim methods under the Slaughter of Animals Act 1933.

    Likely there is an legal exception here also, and so is up to the particular facility, and particular requests.


  • #63
    Summer In the City
    Closed Accounts Posts: 249 ✭✭Summer In the City


    Sonny Green Bone wrote: »
    Some are stunned, while others do not.
    So guess it's not as simple as yes or no.

    In the North there was protests last year at a Dungannon-based meat processing firm due to it's 'processing methods'.

    UK law requires animals to be pre-stunned before slaughter in 'normal circumstances', there is an 'exemption' for Jewish and Muslim methods under the Slaughter of Animals Act 1933.

    Likely there is an legal exception here also, and so is up to the particular facility, and particular requests.

    Again I'm no expert but surely anyone with any sense would stun a cow before hanging it upside down and slitting its throat if the option is there for you?

    I'd also imagine the factory carrying out the killing are looking for the easiest option up north or in Ireland.

    Either way I'm inclined to have a weird view on the whole thing. I'm in my 30's and was a vegetarian for 10 odd years. I eat meat again now and live in a Muslim country. I'm less hung up (sic) as most people probably would be about an act as I still see as fairly cruel in consuming animals at all.


  • #64
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,577 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Summer In the City wrote: »
    Again I'm no expert but surely anyone with any sense would stun a cow before hanging it upside down and slitting its throat if the option is there for you?

    I'd also imagine the factory carrying out the killing are looking for the easiest option up north or here.

    It's always not up to the factory, but as to what they're asked to do in lieu of payment. There is no legal necessity to stun the animal in most jurisdictions.

    As for 'sense' guess you'd have to look at the all man-made world religions and ask if all of their various practices and user guideline books make perfect sense to everyone else.


  • #65
    Summer In the City
    Closed Accounts Posts: 249 ✭✭Summer In the City


    Sonny Green Bone wrote: »
    It's always not up to the factory, but as to what they're asked to do in lieu of payment. There is no legal necessity to stun the animal in most jurisdictions.

    As for 'sense' guess you'd have to look at the all man-made world religions and ask if all of their various practices and user guideline books make perfect sense to everyone else.

    Fair enough. Do you think the countries looking to import the meat have inspectors on the ground to make sure the right religious words are said and the execution goes to their liking or do they take Jimmy's word for it? I'd love to know how it works.


  • #66
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,577 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Summer In the City wrote: »
    Fair enough. Do you think the countries looking to import the meat have inspectors on the ground to make sure the right religious words are said and the execution goes to their liking or do they take Jimmy's word for it? I'd love to know how it works.

    Imagine someone such as Customer A, goes to Factory A/B/C takes a fold out chair or something and watches proceedings for the day, then puts a tick on their QA approved supplier clipboard, makes a product order request.

    Calls back in a few months again on surprise visit/inspection does the same thing etc. Business Studies 101 stuff really.


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  • #67
    Summer In the City
    Closed Accounts Posts: 249 ✭✭Summer In the City


    Sonny Green Bone wrote: »
    Imagine someone such as Customer A, goes to Factory A/B/C takes a fold out chair or something and watches proceedings for the day, then puts a tick on their QA approved supplier clipboard, makes a product order request.

    Calls back in a few months again on surprise visit/inspection does the same thing etc. Business Studies 101 stuff really.

    So Customer A shows up in the factory in Wicklow or where ever and a percentage of the lambs need to be blessed and have their throats slit while the rest are slaughtered "humanely". Surely the factory stuns them all and does the bare minimum to get them ready for export. I'm probably wrong but the whole thing is absurd.

    It's one argument for Muslim immigration that we have these lads to carry out the correct way to dispatch these animals I suppose. Who says they're not helping the economy?


  • #68
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,577 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Summer In the City wrote: »
    So Customer A shows up in the factory in Wicklow or where ever and a percentage of the lambs need to be blessed and have their throats slit while the rest are slaughtered "humanely". Surely the factory stuns them all and does the bare minimum to get them ready for export. I'm probably wrong but the whole thing is absurd.

    Seems that's just the way it is. Guess they may even send someone in or have someone working there to do all the ritual stuff, assuming it's not going to be a non-stop automated convenor belt 24/7.

    If you pay for a specific service, and don't receive it likely you just change your supplier, a basic law of supply and demand, or customer vs supplier.
    Summer In the City wrote: »

    It's one argument for Muslim immigration that we have these lads to carry out the correct way to dispatch these animals I suppose. Who says they're not helping the economy?

    Depends on your version of 'correct'.

    Everyone has to eat so won't matter specifically. Veggies will spend money to buy and use up all the Soya beans, Kale and salads.


  • #69
    Summer In the City
    Closed Accounts Posts: 249 ✭✭Summer In the City


    Sonny Green Bone wrote: »
    Seems that's just the way it is. Guess they may even send someone in or have someone working there to do all the ritual stuff, assuming it's not going to be a non-stop automated convenor belt 24/7.

    If you pay for a specific service, and don't receive it likely you just change your supplier, a basic law of supply and demand, or customer vs supplier.

    Or they don't really care once there is some sort of adherence to halal. I'd imagine in Ireland, the UK and New Zealand where most of the lamb comes from here they are stunning and dispatching the animals like they do the rest of the animals. Quick blessing lashed in there by someone.


  • #70
    Summer In the City
    Closed Accounts Posts: 249 ✭✭Summer In the City


    Sonny Green Bone wrote: »


    Depends on your version of 'correct'.

    Everyone has to eat so won't matter specifically. Veggies will spend money to buy and use up all the Soya beans, Kale and salads.

    I mean 'correct' as halal in this instance.

    Being a vegetarian is an absolute luxury afforded to mainly middle class westerners . I was quite militant in my vegetarianism when I was younger but having spent time in developing countries with massive populations the likes of Morrissey et al. need to get out more if they think the rest of the world can afford that luxury.


  • #71
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,577 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Summer In the City wrote: »
    Or they don't really care once there is some sort of adherence to halal. I'd imagine in Ireland, the UK and New Zealand where most of the lamb comes from here they are stunning and dispatching the animals like they do the rest of the animals. Quick blessing lashed in there by someone.

    Assumptions and imagination don't carry much weight of fact however.
    More likely, one could assume ye olde customs are strictly adhered to.

    Anyway... Morrissey must have a new album/tour out soon, Beyonce and the Cure too.


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  • #72
    Summer In the City
    Closed Accounts Posts: 249 ✭✭Summer In the City


    Sonny Green Bone wrote: »
    Assumptions and imagination don't carry much weight of fact however.
    More likely, one could assume ye olde customs are strictly adhered to.

    So am I to take it you know this as fact? Or are we both making assumptions?


  • #73
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,577 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Summer In the City wrote: »
    So am I to take it you know this as fact

    It's 'probably a fact' it happens, it's not legal and probably a strong focal point of a religion that goes back 'a fair bit'.
    To say very many of them take their various traditions fairly seriously might be an understatement, no?

    Or are you stating it's 'very unlikely' that Halal practices are not adhered to in the typical traditional fashion?


  • #74
    Summer In the City
    Closed Accounts Posts: 249 ✭✭Summer In the City


    Sonny Green Bone wrote: »
    It's 'probably a fact' it happens, it's not legal and probably a strong focal point of a religion that goes back 'a fair bit'.
    To say very many of them take their various traditions fairly seriously might be an understatement, no?

    I'm saying in their tradition stunning is fine and is probably practiced in Ireland, the UK and NZ. Clearly neither of us knows what happens for sure so we can only go on our respective assumptions.


  • #75
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,577 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Summer In the City wrote: »
    I'm saying in their tradition stunning is fine and is probably practiced in Ireland, the UK and NZ.

    Guess you'll have to phone up their leaders and representatives and ask them.

    I like the odd bet, and would say the 'odds in this instance would favour that they have particular specific requirements', rather than as you say 'just stun and lash' (an aul dead animal into the back of the cooler van ready for delivery).

    I like the odd BBQ but won't take any 10oz steak that isn't burnt to a crisp, that's just the way I like it. Even if some fancy Chef sends it out half-cooked it'll get sent back into the kitchen.

    Ah sure phone up your local center and ask them, job done.


  • #76
    Summer In the City
    Closed Accounts Posts: 249 ✭✭Summer In the City


    Sonny Green Bone wrote: »
    Guess you'll have to phone up their leaders and representatives and ask them.

    I like the odd bet, and would say the 'odds in this instance would favour that they have particular specific requirements', rather than as you say 'just stun and lash' (an aul dead animal into the back of the cooler van ready for delivery).

    I like the odd BBQ but won't take any 10oz steak that isn't burnt to a crisp, that's just the way I like it. Even if some fancy Chef sends it out half-cooked it'll get sent back into the kitchen.

    Ah sure phone up your local center and ask them, job done.

    I'm not saying they aren't killed to halal specifications. I am saying they are most likely stunned beforehand in this and most western countries first. The two things aren't mutually exclusive you know.


  • #77
    Irish Guitarist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    Summer In the City wrote: »
    I'm no expert but the animal is stunned first just like in Ireland so what's the difference?

    As an aside the last time halal came up on boards a poster claimed it was barbaric because "they kill the cow when it's still alive". That's my favorite post on boards ever.

    It makes a big difference. Stunned or not stunned, it's unnecessarily cruel. Their last moments must be terrifying. Being stunned (which I doubt happens in most slaughterhouses) might make it slightly less cruel but it's still a backwards religion practicing animal sacrifice.

    I don't eat meat but I don't judge anyone who does. What I have a problem with is insisting the animal suffers as much as possible. That shite should be against EU law.


  • #78
    Summer In the City
    Closed Accounts Posts: 249 ✭✭Summer In the City


    Irish Guitarist wrote: »
    It makes a big difference. Stunned or not stunned, it's unnecessarily cruel. Their last moments must be terrifying. Being stunned (which I doubt happens in most slaughterhouses) might make it slightly less cruel but it's still a backwards religion practicing animal sacrifice.

    I don't eat meat but I don't judge anyone who does. What I have a problem with is insisting the animal suffers as much as possible. That shite should be against EU law.

    What? If the animal is stunned it feels the same pain no matter how the final act happens, no?


  • #79
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,488 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    Summer In the City wrote: »
    What? If the animal is stunned it feels the same pain no matter how the final act happens, no?

    If stunned, the animals are unconscious untill they die.
    Unstunned, cattle take up to two minutes to lose consciousness after their throats are cut, while sheep are awake for only 20 seconds,


  • #80
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Deeply thankful I stopped eating meat. There is no need for it.


  • #81
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I don't see anything objectionable in the OP tbh. Granted, I don't know enough about Khan to be able to get into the specifics; he's always seemed like a capable commentator to me, but that doesn't make him a competent leader.

    Everything else though, yeah. Morrissey might say things in an extraordinarily cock-headed way, but he's often bang on the money.


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