Sexual assualt list posted in boys toilet in Cork school

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 13-04-2018 03:59PM

Grayson wrote: »

That's all harassment. Harassment can be verbal or physical. Maybe you're getting confused with assault?

In fairness, based on that list you'd pretty much consider chatting a girl in a bar up as harassment. And I'm pretty sure women calling each other women "sluts" is more a case of verbal insults.

markodaly · 13-04-2018 03:59PM

wexie wrote: »

While I wouldn't disagree with you that there does appear to be a worrying trend I can't help but wonder in how far those numbers have been influenced by the redefining of what constitutes sexual harassment?

I believe in the UK they've just classified wolf whistling as a hate crime, I'd imagine that may well be followed by an increase in hatecrimes?

I certainly don't think these are things that should be dismissed by any means but I do wonder if this is a bit of a learning curve we're on?

If tomorrow we change the national speed limit to 90 it wouldn't take much for the RSA next month to report 'a massive increase in speeding offenses'....

If you widen the definition of a term, say a hate crime, where before it was a serious assault or murder due to your identity to anything verbal, you will of course widen the net and thus get an increase of 'hate crimes'.

Thus its easy then to write articles bemoaning that the country is getting more hateful and point to dodgy stats, when in fact all you did was widen the goal posts.

markodaly · 13-04-2018 04:01PM

Grayson wrote: »

It's just that it says 87% of 18-25 year olds. That figure is far too high. Just 1 in 10 women make it to 25 without experiencing some form of sexual harassment.

42% of them from other girls....

Now, either there are a lot more lesbians in the USA than I thought or conclusion of those stats are pure muck.

Kingp35 · 13-04-2018 04:07PM

Grayson wrote: »

That's all harassment. Harassment can be verbal or physical. Maybe you're getting confused with assault?

I'm not getting mixed up. My point is that using the definitions of sexual harrassment provided in that study, I would imagine a large percentage of males have also suffered sexual harrassment but the study chose to ignore the male percentages.

People need to look into the how these statistics were reached and not just take them on face value.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 13-04-2018 04:17PM

Kingp35 wrote: »

Do you have anything to backup your clam that there's a growing disrespect amongst some young males?

I find this type of statement to be extremely disrespectful to the young male population.

No I don't have facts and figures, and certainly didn't mean to imply that all, or even the majority if young males nowadays behave like this.But there does seem to be a minority of young men who are quite openly disrespectful towards young women, seeing nothing wrong with using the crudest of terms when speaking about them, circulating inappropriate pictures, and so on. Of course, it wasn't non existent amongst previous generations, but there seems to have been an increasing acceptance of it in recent years, a blind eye turned etc.
The anger over the Belfast trial indicates that many men and women would like to see a sea change, so I suppose I'm going on empirical evidence.

jmayo · 13-04-2018 04:20PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

So your suggestion is to move them on to a different school and act surprised when they pull the she **** again rather than dealing with the situation in the first place?

Graces7 wrote: »

I was actually meaning to keep them contained in some way rather than uleash them on wider society. But as I qualified, IF there were teachers adequate to that task Not sure what faciities we have in Ireland for this? ie I a agreeing with you fully

The other pupils that were put on that list should not have to share a school with people that created the list.

To some guys around here the list is just a bit of banter taken too far, but it is threatening, intimidation and bullying of a sort.

The perps should be forced to take counseling, but they should be removed from the school as a wake up call to all.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think you’re right that it’s in the public’s mind because of the Belfast trial. I also think it’s sensible to treat sex education as a health issue and teach small children about relationships and sex.

But the main thing to keep
In mind is that young lads grow up and cop on. This isn’t necessarily a big problem and it’s not necessarily that far out of the norm.

The young lads need a serious talking to, but I wouldn’t want their identities known or their lives impacted by this. They’ll probably grow up onto normal lads.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yes. They should get a serious talking to. I don’t think it’s good behaviour but it’s also not a sign of a true deviant who’s going to actually rape someone in the future. It’s probably just young lads acting the maggot

You have spent the entire time looking for excuses for them.
Yeah lads will be lads, but I have never ever come across someone publishing, and yes that was what it was, a would be rape list.

We are always shouting that people need to learn about personal responsibility, well here is a chance to show youngsters that it applies to them as well.

And the girls on the list, their parents and indeed all the girls in the school and their parents have a right to know who was behind this.
They have a right to know who targeted their daughter(s) and what type of people they has to share their time with.
Of course there will always be those who couldn't give a shyte, but I would bet there are in the minority.

If your daughter went to that school how would you look at her male classmates in particular.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I really don;t see what expulsion achieves, to be honest. If you're going to teach them a lesson, then teach them. If you're going to expel them, they'll just do it somewhere else.

It makes a point of what is and is not acceptable behaviour.
It is a sanction for bad unacceptable behaviour.

WTF is it nowadays that people, and that includes youngsters, are never meant to take responsibility for their actions.
And they won't do it elsewhere unless they are complete idiots.

But if they get a quite talking to, then what does that say ?
Then someone else will try something else stupid and downright nasty.

Neyite wrote: »

The problem is that there's always one eejit who takes the 'joke' too far. The rest of them know it's a joke. The rest of them know they aren't actually going to rape anyone. But there's always one gobsh!te who crosses the line and gets the lot of them into trouble.

Supposedly it's not the first list in that school but the previous ones were just played down my management as inappropriate jokes and nothing done about them. Perhaps it took going to the media or the Gardai by a parent to get the school to treat it with the concern it deserves.

If this has happened before and the school did nothing then the management could be in deep shyte.

If someone was found putting up a public would be rape list somewhere else what would the consequences be for the person found to be responsible ?
This is threatening and abusive behaviour.

I know if someone did it in work or in most sports clubs they would be removed from those organisations.

wexie · 13-04-2018 04:24PM

Cayden Tasty Peppercorn wrote: »

No I don't have facts and figures, and certainly didn't mean to imply that all, or even the majority if young males nowadays behave like this.But there does seem to be a minority of young men who are quite openly disrespectful towards young women, seeing nothing wrong with using the crudest of terms when speaking about them, circulating inappropriate pictures, and so on. Of course, it wasn't non existent amongst previous generations, but there seems to have been an increasing acceptance of it in recent years, a blind eye turned etc.
The anger over the Belfast trial indicates that many men and women would like to see a sea change, so I suppose I'm going on empirical evidence.

I'm not at all disagreeing with you, however I do feel the need to point out that a lot of these 'inappropriate pictures' are taking by the girls themselves. Of course you could then argue about whether or not there was permission for them to be circulated etc. etc.

But I've yet to come across a discussion where this wasn't happily glanced over

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 13-04-2018 04:27PM

wexie wrote: »

I'm not at all disagreeing with you, however I do feel the need to point out that a lot of these 'inappropriate pictures' are taking by the girls themselves. Of course you could then argue about whether or not there was permission for them to be circulated etc. etc.

But I've yet to come across a discussion where this wasn't happily glanced over

Yes that was my point. Girls send a picture of themselves to their boyfriend, and in some cases discover that the picture has been circulated more widely (often as revenge after a relationship is over). While the foolishness of sending a picture like that is up for debate, it doesn't excuse what someone chooses to do with it afterwards.

ceadaoin. · 13-04-2018 05:02PM

Cayden Tasty Peppercorn wrote: »

Yes that was my point. Girls send a picture of themselves to their boyfriend, and in some cases discover that the picture has been circulated more widely (often as revenge after a relationship is over). While the foolishness of sending a picture like that is up for debate, it doesn't excuse what someone chooses to do with it afterwards.

And let's not forget the pressure that some girls find themselves under to send these pics in the first place.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 13-04-2018 06:11PM

jmayo wrote: »

The other pupils that were put on that list should not have to share a school with people that created the list.

I totally accept your definition of threatening intimidation any bullying and yes they should be forced to take not just counselling. But that IS the wake up call. You want them to know what they've done wrong and how it effects other people? Fine - but how does expulsion achieve this? And unless you're prepared to accommodate them in your children's school, why would you suggest dumping them on someone else's?

It makes a point of what is and is not acceptable behaviour.
It is a sanction for bad unacceptable behaviour.

How?

WTF is it nowadays that people, and that includes youngsters, are never meant to take responsibility for their actions.
And they won't do it elsewhere unless they are complete idiots.

Not sure this was meant for me, as it doesn't deal with any point I made.

But if they get a quite talking to, then what does that say ?
Then someone else will try something else stupid and downright nasty.

My idea was to teach them. You said counselling. I'd argue we're talking about the same thing here.

Grab All Association · 13-04-2018 06:16PM

Well done Mallow school for making the news. You’d have to be really stupid to think that this is actually real.

It’s like those planning notices my friends used to put up on abandoned buildings for strip clubs and methadone clinics

Edit: I don’t agree with using those girls names.

The whole thing was to cause a stir and they’ve succeeded. SJW are up in arms

strandroad · 13-04-2018 06:18PM

Can a school suspend a pupil or a group of pupils in such situation? Allow their return on condition that whatever activities are needed to reeducate them are completed?

wexie · 13-04-2018 06:22PM

Out of curiosity : Does anybody know if (for arguments sake) the perpetrator(s) of this was/were expelled from the school they were currently in. Would they/their parents have to disclose to a subsequent school that they were dispelled and why?

Or even what their previous school was and would the new school then be allowed to ask the old school about their history?

Last thing you'd want is for kids like these to be expelled from one school and enrolled in the next without the behaviour actually being addressed in a meaningful way?

bloodless_coup · 13-04-2018 06:23PM

Bit of harmless fun.

Grab All Association · 13-04-2018 06:30PM

doylefe wrote: »

Bit of harmless fun.

Exactly

If a vote like that was real you wouldn’t post it on a cubicle door would you?

clairewithani · 13-04-2018 06:31PM

doylefe wrote: »

Bit of harmless fun.

No way is this harmless or fun

Grab All Association · 13-04-2018 06:53PM

clairewithani wrote: »

No way is this harmless or fun

It was to get at the teachers/staff for a reaction. When I was in secondary school (CBS Thurles) one of the cool guys put up a number of page 3 pages on the notice board. It got tabloid papers banned in CSPE and he was suspended for a week.

namloc1980 · 13-04-2018 06:53PM

doylefe wrote: »

Bit of harmless fun.

Harmless??? Fun???

HappyAsLarE · 13-04-2018 07:02PM

I don’t know what would upset me more - being a parent of the girls or the boys in this case.

The likelihood is that the boys were not going to do anything beyond the list. But back when I was a lad in school we had the girls on a pedastel and any lads that disrespected them were really thought badly of.

Harry Palmr · 13-04-2018 07:03PM

Grab All Association wrote: »

It was to get at the teachers/staff for a reaction. When I was in secondary school (CBS Thurles) one of the cool guys put up a number of page 3 pages on the notice board. It got tabloid papers banned in CSPE and he was suspended for a week.

Yes that;s just the same as writing down the names of girls in a school on a rape list.

Every boy at that school is now going to be looked at sideways wherever they go for a while, at the same time every girl will be wondering about the names (if they are not already widely known) and if they are widely known pity the girls named.

13-04-2018 07:15PM

heard some wagon standing in for Matt cooper today spouting off about how we need a national education program on Consent???

do you pull a murderer aside when you find his plot to kill the neighbour and discuss with him, the finer points of anger management!!

jesus christ, if you dont know it's wrong to rape someone, the very act of which disregards consent , it's kinda the ****ing point horrendous as it is to emphasise, well I've lost all hope. Even to joke about that and pin it up is worrying in so many ways, one also has to think, and I might be banned for this , has it anything to do with attitudes in general of young lads, post Belfast!! there are those who are immature and impressionable always, I'm sure whoever wrote that note, well they obviously loved reading the whatsapp chats in the media too

Grab All Association · 13-04-2018 07:21PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Yes that;s just the same as writing down the names of girls in a school on a rape list.

Every boy at that school is now going to be looked at sideways wherever they go for a while, at the same time every girl will be wondering about the names (if they are not already widely known) and if they are widely known pity the girls named.

And the guy(s) who did it are laughing at the reaction its getting. They could’ve just painted the door and said nothing. Believing this is like believing the “call 087-1234567 for a good gay time with a big burley man” type graffiti your mate writes as a joke.

gw80 · 13-04-2018 07:25PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

And let's not forget the pressure that some girls find themselves under to send these pics in the first place.

I hate to burst your bubble but some girls know exactly what they are doing when they take these pictures and send them out, they know full well the pictures will be circulated, they couldn't not know by now,
Not all girls are the innocent victims of "toxic masculinity" as some people would like to believe they are.

cnocbui · 13-04-2018 07:25PM

doylefe wrote: »

Bit of harmless fun.

Exactly. Just like telling the stewardess there's a bomb on board.

garbo speaks · 13-04-2018 07:28PM

cnocbui wrote: »

Exactly. Just like telling the stewardess there's a bomb on board.

Get real. It was just a bit of nonsense some kids wrote as a laugh. The kind of thing that has gone on for generations. But, this is 2018 folks, where nothing is a joke to the snowflakes.

Harry Palmr · 13-04-2018 07:30PM

garbo speaks wrote: »

Get real. It was just a bit of nonsense some kids wrote as a laugh. The kind of thing that has gone on for generations. But, this is 2018 folks, where nothing is a joke to the snowflakes.

Do you have children, actually are you old enough to have children?

The_Kew_Tour · 13-04-2018 07:33PM

It's one thing to talk about maybe "banging" a girl, it's another to talk about Raping one.

You can't just think this is ok

clairewithani · 13-04-2018 07:46PM

Grab All Association wrote: »

It was to get at the teachers/staff for a reaction. When I was in secondary school (CBS Thurles) one of the cool guys put up a number of page 3 pages on the notice board. It got tabloid papers banned in CSPE and he was suspended for a week.

Stick up page 3 girls no problem. The girls were doing a job and lived nowhere near the guy. Also most likely staff laughed at it secretly. The girls here were in the school, around these guys every day, were targeted to be "raped" and I doubt staff thought it was funny or acceptable. It's normal to look at page 3 girls. It's not normal to make rape lists.

BadTurtle · 13-04-2018 07:59PM

Boom_Bap wrote: »

You do realise that it could have been a girl that done it, a faculty/staff member, anyone that has access to the school.

Given that it's the boys toilet, I'd admit they are the likely suspect, but you can't pin it on being a boy(s) unless it's known.

A staff member? Seriously?

BadTurtle · 13-04-2018 08:01PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Harmless??? Fun???

Doylefes IP address needs to be checked by the Gardai I'd say.

Sexual assualt list posted in boys toilet in Cork school

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