The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

....... · 12-04-2018 02:11PM

This post has been deleted.

baylah17 · 12-04-2018 02:13PM

jugger0 wrote: »

The video I seen is not fake, it is not just one video, it was very disturbing.

As disturbing as the various reports into how Savita Hallapanavar was killed by 8th amendment?

12-04-2018 02:13PM

jugger0 wrote: »

I dont mind abortion, Im not against it at all, I just dont like that the abortion crew are against the death penalty. Heinous crimes should be punished with death.

A ridiculous argument & one that you can't prove. How do you know that most pro choice people are anti death penalty? Or did you just make that up?
I for one am against the death penalty, you know why? Because I don't believe it is a penalty, I believe life in prison should mean that, & I don't see why a convict should be let off early.
Does that fit your ideas?

January · 12-04-2018 02:14PM

jugger0 wrote: »

The video I seen is not fake, it is not just one video, it was very disturbing.

How do you know it was not fake? Most of the videos being peddled around are either fake, or as nozz up thread has said, an exception rather than normality.

Disturbing as it might be, if the pregnancy has reached a point where a foetus has to be extracted using instruments then it is not being done for no reason or because the person who is pregnant 'just doesn't want a baby'.

Women who have late gestation abortions are doing so because either the foetus has health issues or they themselves have health issues.

_Dara_ · 12-04-2018 02:19PM

jugger0 wrote: »

The video I seen is not fake, it is not just one video, it was very disturbing.

I once had an abscess in a delicate area surgically burst. It wasn’t pretty at all. Many medical tend not to be. What’s your point?

Grayson · 12-04-2018 02:20PM

_Dara_ wrote: »

I once had an abscess in a delicate area surgically burst. It wasn’t pretty at all. Many medical tend not to be. What’s your point?

I had a colonoscopy. Definitely not something anyone wants to watch

jugger0 · 12-04-2018 02:21PM

bubblypop wrote: »

A ridiculous argument & one that you can't prove. How do you know that most pro choice people are anti death penalty? Or did you just make that up?
I for one am against the death penalty, you know why? Because I don't believe it is a penalty, I believe life in prison should mean that, & I don't see why a convict should be let off early.
Does that fit your ideas?

You think prison is a penalty? lol.. and who gets life in Ireland? very very rarely is somebody locked up for over 20 years. Also the cost of a rope versus 20+ years in prison... the cost to the taxpayer is shocking.

jugger0 · 12-04-2018 02:22PM

_Dara_ wrote: »

I once had an abscess in a delicate area surgically burst. It wasn’t pretty at all. Many medical tend not to be. What’s your point?

Seeing something which resembles a baby being torn apart is a bit worse im afraid.

ELM327 · 12-04-2018 02:22PM

jugger0 wrote: »

You think prison is a penalty? lol.. and who gets life in Ireland? very very rarely is somebody locked up for over 20 years. Also the cost of a rope versus 20+ years in prison... the cost to the taxpayer is shocking.

Yet another distraction.
Ran out of relevant points have ye?
Is that david quinn at my door?

_Dara_ · 12-04-2018 02:23PM

Grayson wrote: »

I had a colonoscopy. Definitely not something anyone wants to watch

I dunno, I found my colonoscopy pretty sexy. Especially seeing the photos of my infected colon interior. Oh baybee. #weirdsexkinks

:pac:

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-04-2018 02:23PM

jugger0 wrote: »

I dont understand the push for abortion but yet people are very against the death penalty? Its ok to scramble babies in the womb but not ok to hang murderers and child molesters? I think if we have one we should have the other.

I would be fine with that.

jugger0 · 12-04-2018 02:23PM

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

To be honest I am "agnostic" about the death penalty. I am neither for or against it in principle and it is a debate I have long intended to inform myself on and wade into to decide where I lie on it. I genuinely do not know my position on that one.

But I do not accept the "if you accept one you accept the other" move you are making here. I see massive differences between the two.

The main one is the fetus is an entity that ENTIRELY lacks the faculty of consciousness and sentience. It does not have it. It never has had it. It is a distinct period of time away from getting it.

Not so the recipient of the death penalty.

So the distinction for me is the criminal is still an entity warranting moral and ethical concern, and the debate about the death penalty is whether other concerns related to their crime overrides this.

The Fetus is not an entity for which we can coherently hold moral and ethical concerns. While the pregnant woman is.

The two situations for me therefore are not comparable.

That is something of an over simplification from you there. There is a lot more going on for a lot more people than simply "Do not want a baby".

The social and economic concerns are VASTLY more diverse than you are representing there.

For example on this thread some women have spoken about how they have already had an abortion and they did so because they already had children and another child would undermine the well being of, and their care and parenting of, the existing children.

That is not a simple "I do not want a baby" that is "I want babies but there is a limit to how many I can care for and I am at that limit and so having more is not a viable option for me".

As someone who claims to have no issue with abortion (I remain dubious) what do you hope to gain by misrepresentation of this level?

What you can link to a video of is likely to be an exception. Over 92% of abortions happen in or before week 12. That is what the Citizens assembly have recommended. In fact around 80% by week 10. So yes I HAVE watched abortions before. You know what it looked like???? A woman popping a pill.

I trust linking to videos of women downing a pill will not feed into the agenda you claim NOT to have (that of being against abortion). Ask yourself however what the agenda is behind linking to videos that BY FAR are the exception rather than the common practice when it comes to the reality of abortion? It would be like me saying "I love anesthsia" and then linking to an interview of one of those VERY few people who were consciously aware during their surgery.

Yet there is no double standard at all as I explained at the start of this post. The two are massively and entirely different things for the reasons I described. There are few differences between the two at the moral and ethical level. The only similarity there is in fact is at the level of biology, where a "life" is ended. But at that level of rhetoric you might as well say that lawn bowling is the same things as MMA Cage matches. Sure arent all the people doing both BREATHING? Sure that makes them exactly the same thing.

I enjoyed this reply thank you. Very good points.

_Dara_ · 12-04-2018 02:24PM

jugger0 wrote: »

Seeing something which resembles a baby being torn apart is a bit worse im afraid.

I don’t think you get to decide what’s “worse”, thanks.

SusieBlue · 12-04-2018 02:26PM

jugger0 wrote: »

You think prison is a penalty? lol.. and who gets life in Ireland? very very rarely is somebody locked up for over 20 years. Also the cost of a rope versus 20+ years in prison... the cost to the taxpayer is shocking.

Why are you deflecting from the topic at hand?
The point of imprisonment is loss of freedom and independence.
I recognise that Irish jails are more comfortable than many others, but the point remains.
They lose their freedom and they have no control over their lives, from what time they get up at to what they have for dinner.
I would also like for prison sentences to be longer should the crime committed warrant it, life should mean life.
However that is absolutely not what we're talking about at all here so I'm having difficulty understanding why you are continuously bringing it up?

As for your comments on the tax payer cost on the prison system.....Well two abortion pills are going to cost significantly less than the maternity care of a woman including scans, the birth, 18 years of children's allowance and the cost to the state for educating that child.
So your point is moot.

jugger0 · 12-04-2018 02:26PM

_Dara_ wrote: »

I don’t think you get to decide what’s “worse”, thanks.

Ok hun, I am going to send you the video.

Zubeneschamali · 12-04-2018 02:26PM

jugger0 wrote: »

Seeing something which resembles a baby being torn apart is a bit worse im afraid.

Man, that bit in The Thing where the guys head is knocked off, and then it grows legs and eye-stalks and runs off was pretty gross.

_Dara_ · 12-04-2018 02:27PM

jugger0 wrote: »

Ok hun, I am going to send you the video.

I have private messages disabled so good luck with that.

SusieBlue · 12-04-2018 02:27PM

jugger0 wrote: »

Ok hun, I am going to send you the video.

How dare you be so condescending, "hun"??? Really?? And that poster did not ask you to send the video. Pretty sure to do so is against the charter.

Hannibal_Smith · 12-04-2018 02:29PM

jugger0 wrote: »

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

But what about the father of the multiple offender? Killing his child is ignoring his rights!

Listen if you want to kill babies thats fine, I really dont mind its your choice. I just think its a double standard that there is no death penalty.

Okay, but the thread is about the upcoming referendum. If you want to discuss the death penalty, thats another thread.

ohnonotgmail · 12-04-2018 02:30PM

jugger0 wrote: »

I dont understand the push for abortion but yet people are very against the death penalty? Its ok to scramble babies in the womb but not ok to hang murderers and child molesters? I think if we have one we should have the other.

your ignorance of what is proposed is unfortunately shared by many.

jugger0 · 12-04-2018 02:31PM

_Dara_ wrote: »

I have private messages disabled so good luck with that.

Why are you so afraid? I mean you are voting for this?

jugger0 · 12-04-2018 02:32PM

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Okay, but the thread is about the upcoming referendum. If you want to discuss the death penalty, thats another thread.

I'm voting yes

jugger0 · 12-04-2018 02:33PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

your ignorance of what is proposed is unfortunately shared by many.

I dont know how else to describe it.. disemboweled, eviscerated, decapitated etc

Hannibal_Smith · 12-04-2018 02:33PM

jugger0 wrote: »

I'm voting yes

It's none of my business what way you vote.

SusieBlue · 12-04-2018 02:35PM

jugger0 wrote: »

Why are you so afraid? I mean you are voting for this?

She doesn't have to justify herself to you. And you are no more voting Yes than David Quinn is.

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-04-2018 02:35PM

jugger0 wrote: »

I dont know how else to describe it.. disemboweled, eviscerated, decapitated etc

Try propaganda?

ohnonotgmail · 12-04-2018 02:35PM

jugger0 wrote: »

I dont know how else to describe it.. disemboweled, eviscerated, decapitated etc

If the referendum is passed and the legislation enacted the vast majority of the abortions carried out will be medical abortions i.e. the woman takes two pills and that is that. No "scrambling of babies in wombs".

....... · 12-04-2018 02:35PM

This post has been deleted.

Hannibal_Smith · 12-04-2018 02:37PM

jugger0 wrote: »

Why are you so afraid? I mean you are voting for this?

What has her choice of settings on the website got to do with her voting choice?

Triceratops Ballet · 12-04-2018 02:38PM

jugger0 wrote:

Why are you so afraid? I mean you are voting for this?

Who's afraid? if the nuns in school didn't scare me when they wheeled the vcr into our classroom, a link from a stranger on the Internet won't do a tap.

If all you have is a video and some false equivalence between the death penalty and abortion, then you need to stock up your arsenal pet, we've seen and heard those arguments for the last 35 years and have managed to make informed decisions anyway.

The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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