The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

jugger0

optogirl wrote: »

You are voting yes but are horrified that other people are voting yes. It just gets more nonsensical by the second. And yes, hands up, I did go creeping but just because I couldn't believe you were for real and were perhaps a habitual troll. It turns out you're not a troll. I'm not sure what the word is for your particular malaise.

Yes, voting yes while ignoring the actual procedure, thats what I thought was strange... but turns out I was wrong and I accept that. I was always going to vote yes but now I do so with even greater ease.

Zubeneschamali

jugger0 wrote: »

Im not trying to scare anyone, I just think its a big deal and people should know what happens.

Another "Yes voter" who thinks abortion is horrific and thinks everyone should watch gory videos and agree.

Hmmm.

nozzferrahhtoo

jugger0 wrote: »

Do you really think most women will sit and watch a video of baby dismemberment? Its so horrific if I was to post it I would be banned immediately.

As I said, in a post you thanked me for but do not appear to have read, such videos are not even remotely representative of well over 92% of abortions. And for those to which it is relevant they are likely having to have an abortion for reasons outside their control or desire and they are therefore already upset enough without having to view the sordid details of the procedure.

Statistically the number of women having the type of abortion you describe, who are doing it for reasons that are not entirely outside their control and desire, is almost none. So the question remains then who exactly is it you feel needs to see such things and why and what relevance does it actually have to anything?

I reckon you A) do not know and do not care what the answers to those actually are. What your agenda is is to make abortion so emotive that you cajole "no" votes out of people you are unable to actually offer arguments to.

jugger0

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

As I said, in a post you thanked me for but do not appear to have read, such videos are not even remotely representative of well over 92% of abortions. And for those does whom it is relevant they are likely having to have an abortion for reasons outside their control or desire and they are therefore already upset enough without having to view the sordid details of the procedure.

Statistically the number of women having the type of abortion you describe, who are doing it for reasons that are not entirely outside their control and desire, is almost none. So the question remains then who exactly is it you feel needs to see such things and why and what relevance does it actually have to anything?

I reckon you A) do not know and do not care what the answers to those actually are. What your agenda is is to make abortion so emotive that you cajole "no" votes out of people you are unable to actually offer arguments to.

I have no agenda, I came in here talking about something I didnt know enough about.

I do like your replies though, they are very civil and non insulting. You should be a politician.

kylith

jugger0 wrote: »

Yeah and the majority of the reasons are because they just dont want a baby.. not because they were raped or because of a dangerous medical condition, they just dont want one so they get to give it a little "death penalty". It makes more sense for criminals to be given the death penalty as they are a danger to society.

Do you think that people who don’t want to have children would be good parents?

gmisk

jugger0 wrote: »

I have no agenda, I came in here talking about something I didnt know enough about.

It didnt stop you talking about it insistently and incoherently though...so thats the main thing...well done!

nozzferrahhtoo

jugger0 wrote: »

I have no agenda, I came in here talking about something I didnt know enough about.

Perhaps you do not. That is certainly a possibility. However if so then you seriously need to change your approach to this topic. People tend to judge what you are based on your words and actions, not based on how you describe yourself. And every post so far gives the impression of literally dripping with agenda. So denying that agenda is likely to leave people very much unconvinced.

The citizens assembly have recommended legislation that offers abortion by choice up to week 12. Abortion up to and even BEYOND week 12 are medical. They are simply using a pill.

The video you are touting therefore is not relevant to anyone or anything here. Generally the only people having the type of abortion you are describing are doing so for reasons they can not control and they are already likely suffering for it.

There is ZERO benefit in making such women, who are already in distress and pain and remorse and more, aware of the intricate bloody details of the procedure. The lack of empathy and basic humanity it would require to do that is literally disgusting.

Hell we do not even tend to show the details of more mundane surgery to people who are about to have it. Why in the name of all that is good do you think we need to do so here? Would you force someone about to have a limb removed to watch a video of such a procedure, all the blood and tendons and bone and cauterization and more? Are they not in enough distress and pain already?

swampgas

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Perhaps you do not. That is certainly a possibility. However if so then you seriously need to change your approach to this topic. People tend to judge what you are based on your words and actions, not based on how you describe yourself. And every post so far gives the impression of literally dripping with agenda.

The citizens assembly have recommended legislation that offers abortion by choice up to week 12. Abortion up to and even BEYOND week 12 are medical. They are simply using a pill.

The video you are touting therefore is not relevant to anyone or anything here. Generally the only people having the type of abortion you are describing are doing so for reasons they can not control and they are already likely suffering for it.

There is ZERO benefit in making such women, who are already in distress and pain and remorse and more, aware of the intricate bloody details of the procedure. The lack of empathy and basic humanity it would require to do that is literally disgusting.

Hell we do not even tend to show the details of more mundane surgery to people who are about to have it. Why in the name of all that is good do you think we need to do so here? Would you force someone about to have a limb removed to watch a video of such a procedure, all the blood and tendons and bone and cauterization and more? Are they not in enough distress and pain already?

I've had eye surgery - double orbital decompression in fact. There's a video of the procedure on youtube. There is no way on earth I could watch it. (I tried - I got about 5 seconds in.) It's very very disturbing for non-medical people to watch, but without it I'd be blind. So "hard to watch", "icky", and "gory" have nothing at all to do with good/bad, and nothing at all to say about whether a medical procedure is appropriate or not.

kylith

Is there anything that can be done about blatantly misinforming posters? Saw an anti-repeal one today that claimed abortion up to 6 months, which is total lies.

jugger0 wrote: »

It is the fathers business as you are killing his child too.

He can insist the pregnancy continues when he can carry it to term.

jugger0 wrote: »

I dont know how else to describe it.. disemboweled, eviscerated, decapitated etc

Not a medical abortion. Inform yourself. Stop spreading lies.

jugger0 wrote: »

Do you really think most women will sit and watch a video of baby dismemberment? Its so horrific if I was to post it I would be banned immediately.

Already have, thanks all the same. When I was 14. Nuns made us watch it. Still pro-choice.

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Fred Swanson

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dudara

jugger0 wrote: »

The video I seen is not fake, it is not just one video, it was very disturbing.

I had open heart surgery as a child. Watching videos of that online is not pleasant.

I also had surgery to correct a detached retina in which my eyeball was popped out and a plastic strip attached to the back of my eyeball. Watching that procedure on YouTube was fun.

Our internal workings are not pretty. Women bleed 5 days every 4 weeks and during that time we see blood and other matter. It’s not pretty but it happens. Any video of any surgery will be upsetting to some.

kylith

dudara wrote: »

I had open heart surgery as a child. Watching videos of that online is not pleasant.

I also had surgery to correct a detached retina in which my eyeball was popped out and a plastic strip attached to the back of my eyeball. Watching that procedure on YouTube was fun.

Our internal workings are not pretty. Women bleed 5 days every 4 months and during that time we see blood and other matter. It’s not pretty but it happens. Any video of any surgery will be upsetting to some.

Only every 4 months? Lucky you!

dudara

kylith wrote: »

Only every 4 months? Lucky you!

I wish Weeks dammit

Rjd2

I have given 50 quid to the yes campaign the other day, not exactly millions, but think we should all try to help as every little helps.:o

For the "pro life" campaigners I do sympathise, but nothing will change for you even if yes wins. It just means women will have more choices which is a good thing for all women no matter what your view is on the upcoming vote.:)

Timberrrrrrrr

jugger0 wrote: »

I dont enjoy them, they are horrible but it is humanity in its most vicious form, so it is like watching a nature documentary. And I dont like watching people being killed, cartel and Isis members dont count.

So killing is bad but some killing is good? So you're not pro-life at all you're pro "let's say this to wind people up"?

There's a name for people like you

JDD

bertieinexile wrote: »

I am looking forward to answering that JDD.
I want to do it justice.
I just don't seem to have as much time as a lot of people here for posting.

Soon as I can.

Hi Bertie.

Five comprehensive detailed posts on this thread in the last 24 hours, yet you still haven't had time to answer my post.

I'm still waiting.

January

JDD wrote: »

Hi Bertie.

Five comprehensive detailed posts on this thread in the last 24 hours, yet you still haven't had time to answer my post.

I'm still waiting.

He's waiting on a reply from head office so he can copy and paste it to you.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

applehunter

C'mon Bertie, they're waiting.

Hannibal_Smith

A lady knocked on our door this eve....said she was pro-life...I said thanks but I'm voting to repeal. She took a step forward as if to debate the matter but realised my answer was fairly definite and said thank you and walked off. I'm half expecting her to call back

dark crystal

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

A lady knocked on our door this eve....said she was pro-life...I said thanks but I'm voting to repeal. She took a step forward as if to debate the matter but realised my answer was fairly definite and said thank you and walked off. I'm half expecting her to call back

Same here. I said I'd be voting 'yes' and they asked me did I still want a booklet, but I refused and said my mind was made up but thanks for calling. They were very pleasant about it.

crustybla

Trasna1 wrote: »

Indeed and for balance the opposite is true too. Say you are pro life and you'll be told you are a religious nut job and living a life pre enlightenment.

Don't fully subscribe to the pro choice side or be like myself, neutral and question everything and you'll be labeled as the opposition.

And it's people like me that need to be won over (that said, any campaigner of any flavor won't convince me).

Top o de mornin' to ye! In Ireland we spell it flavour.:)

JDD

To be fair when I type flavor my autocorrect amends it to the US version.

Trasna, I’m glad your questioning everything. Go onto both sides websites, read the oireachtas committee report and we’ll be happy to answer any questions you have or allay any of your concerns.

jugger0

jugger0 wrote: »

The video I seen is not fake, it is not just one video, it was very disturbing.

So are videos of executions, and if you posted one of them you'd be banned too.

I've seen a lot of violence in my life, I've been stabbed twice, burnt, punched, kicked, spat on and had a gun put to my head more than once. I've also given as good as I got and have physically hurt the people who did and tried to do these things to me. Thankfully this part of my life is over as I don't work at the same thing anymore.

I've seen people crushed to death and person decapitated in a car smash due to a drunk driver.

No one who has actually experienced or been involved in violent incidents tend to not want to propagate voilence unless they have a mental health problem, or just being maco online. That's why I tend to ignore people who want the death penalty because if they were involved in one they would probably sh1t themselves.

The difference is that abortion is a medical procedure carried out for a number of reasons, all personal in the end, of a foetus, not a living person, while the death penalty is the state ending the life of a living person for a crime of which they can be guilty or not guilty of.

bertieinexile

bertieinexile wrote: »

I'm guessing 1 and 2 are directed at me.

While you're away could you find the link I posted that undermines the idea that there would be abortion on demand/request up to 24 weeks.
It's something I posted right?

And also if there's time could you think about the steps involved in a doctor being struck off for signing a certificate saying s/he believed there was a threat of serious harm to someone's mental health. (Someone who was a willing participant in the enterprise.)

Have a good trip

Not just yourself trying that line.

Here's the article
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-will-seek-to-ban-late-term-abortions-1.3440056

No where does it state abortion on demand until 24 weeks, but anyone reading the article could tell you that.

You mentioned in another post that I didn't answer a question from you if I would support abortion on demand up to 24 weeks, I answered you as I'll support what ever is made the law of the land once repeal is successful.

In relation to your post on switching off life support, it's not done by the medical profession here unless your already dead or have no way back and even then it's not something done lightly without the family making the decision.
Personally my wife, family and my best mate have been told to pull the plug on me in such a case or one where I'd be in a state where I'd have no quality of life, but again as with everything this is my own personal choice and no one else's business in saying if it should be done or not.

JDD

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t it the law of the land already that, if you are on life support, your next of kin have the right to withdraw that support? I’m sure there are special circumstances that must apply also - highly unlikely to recover etc. it was a Supreme Court case.

So, if I’m right, and a termination was performed at 22 weeks because of a risk to the health of the mother, the parents would have the right to make the decision to turn off life support, having assessed all the likely consequences of being born so early.

It wasnt me123

Where there was pro life callers to the door, can I ask which area? No problem if you don't want to make your area know. I'm just curious, no sign of anything in Sth Tipp as yet.

NuMarvel

It's now €447,000! At this rate, it'll likely make the half a million target before this time tomorrow!