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Men's rights on Abortion?

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  • #902
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,103 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Calhoun wrote: »
    iptba wrote: »
    MEN: Your YES Matters
    https://www.facebook.com/events/366595747188515/

    I have no strong opinions on abortion but can understand why people could have strong opinions on the issue on either side.

    But I find it interesting that some people seem to argue that men shouldn't have an opinion but then say men should have an opinion and it should be "yes".

    I think if the genders were reversed, there would be a strong reaction against such an approach.

    Indeed i am kinda conflicted, was always pro-choice but a key turning point for me was this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=764CcBSboi0 . Something as important as a referendum vote and it seems like part of one side wants me to shut up that my opinion doesnt matter.

    Its going to be down to the wire with me to be honest, i am trying to keep an open mind and stay out of the BS as much as possible.


    You say you're trying to stay out of the BS and post a link to the BS. That black wan is a total headbanger. And her views are a sideshow on the issue of whether or not abortion should be allowed in Ireland.

    The fact of the matter is that it's a constitutional issue so everyone of voting age has an equal say in the referendum. Men have as much right as women to decide on the laws of the country.

    There will obviously be a difference when it comes to choosing to have an abortion because that decision ultimately comes down to the pregnant individual who will, for all intents and purposes, be a woman.

    You're being asked to vote on whether you think abortion should be permitted in Ireland, not what you think of some angry, street preacher style campaigner. It's a single question. Don't complicate it.


  • #903
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    iptba wrote: »
    MEN: Your YES Matters
    https://www.facebook.com/events/366595747188515/

    I have no strong opinions on abortion but can understand why people could have strong opinions on the issue on either side.

    But I find it interesting that some people seem to argue that men shouldn't have an opinion but then say men should have an opinion and it should be "yes".

    I think if the genders were reversed, there would be a strong reaction against such an approach.

    I've found a significant number of men I've spoken to over the years think they don't have a right to an opinion on the issue, which is sad. Whatever the constitutional amendment in question all citizens should be heard.

    I remember my Irish teacher in school not wanting to cover the topic of abortion for our LC essays despite it being topical (it was the lead up to the '02 referendum) because he felt he didn't have a right to comment on it, thinking back he was probably 25/26 at the time and it's sad to think he felt so disengaged from the topic, especially when I think about the fact that I would only have learned about the 8th amendment and what abortion was around that time and have been pretty staunchly pro choice ever since then.

    I do see other women say things like no uterus no opinion on boards, and I hope nobody takes that to heart. I hope women who respond like that are doing so out of a frustration that they are not being empathised with rather than a sincere belief that men don't have the right to an opinion on the issue.

    For me the idea of the right to chose has been omnipresent in my life since I was in my teens, me and my friends always talked about what we would do and how we would raise the money to travel if one of us found ourselves in that situation at such a young age. When I think about that now, it just strikes me how terribly sad it is for a group of 17/18 year old girls to have to have a plan like that because they're so afraid of what might happen if they got pregnant, and I think it's one of the reasons the subject is so emotive for women, the idea of having to go to England has been such a tangible fear, in my life anyway since I was very young, in a way that it possibly isn't for teenage boys, I've been emotionally invested in the 8th amendment being repealed for more than half my life.


  • #904
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,106 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Kind of sick of being told what to think, talk and act in private over the last few weeks.
    If it annoys Ruth Coppinger and some other trigger bunnies I'll vote no just for the warm glow it'll give me.
    Couldn't vote yes on anything she's backing.


  • #905
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


  • #906
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Kind of sick of being told what to think, talk and act in private over the last few weeks.
    If it annoys Ruth Coppinger and some other trigger bunnies I'll vote no just for the warm glow it'll give me.
    Couldn't vote yes on anything she's backing.

    Please don't vote no for spite, if you're going to vote no because you believe that's the right thing to do fair enough, but voting no to spite other people is making a mockery if the democratic process and making light of a very serious issue


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  • #907
    optogirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,042 ✭✭✭optogirl


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Kind of sick of being told what to think, talk and act in private over the last few weeks.
    If it annoys Ruth Coppinger and some other trigger bunnies I'll vote no just for the warm glow it'll give me.
    Couldn't vote yes on anything she's backing.

    Well I would ask you to consider the 2 million + women in Ireland who will not receive appropriate healthcare as a result of your grudge vote. Of the women who have to travel to England to deal with a ffa pregnancy, of 13 year old girls who have to somehow figure out how to do this outside of he country and without a GP's knowledge, of rape victims in the early days of recovery for whom a trip to London is a terrifying prospect, for handicapped women or women with debilitating diseases for whom pregnancy is a complication too far.


  • #908
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,106 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Triceratops Ballet wrote: »
    Please don't vote no for spite, if you're going to vote no because you believe that's the right thing to do fair enough, but voting no to spite other people is making a mockery if the democratic process and making light of a very serious issue


    After seen the bonkerness of the last few weeks by the same people pushing for a yes vote, I won't be siding with them, bunch of headbangers.
    No abortions means more men to fight the headbangers, can sleep soundly with that decision.


  • #909
    optogirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,042 ✭✭✭optogirl


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    After seen the bonkerness of the last few weeks by the same people pushing for a yes vote, I won't be siding with them, bunch of headbangers.
    No abortions means more men to fight the headbangers, can sleep soundly with that decision.

    What makes you think these men would agree with you? Huge support from men for repealing the 8th as far as I can see. I hope it stays fine for you and you are never in the many crappy situations where the 8th complicates things further for you.


  • #910
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,055 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    After seen the bonkerness of the last few weeks by the same people pushing for a yes vote, I won't be siding with them, bunch of headbangers.
    No abortions means more men to fight the headbangers, can sleep soundly with that decision.

    There's no shortage of headbangers on the no side.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #911
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    After seen the bonkerness of the last few weeks by the same people pushing for a yes vote, I won't be siding with them, bunch of headbangers.
    No abortions means more men to fight the headbangers, can sleep soundly with that decision.

    there will still be abortions, they'll just continue to be outsourced!
    Your vote to punish a few is actually punishing a much larger more moderate chunk of the population.
    But I do suspect you were never going to vote yes given your previous posts in this thread, and you're just using this to throw a few digs now.


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  • #912
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    After seen the bonkerness of the last few weeks by the same people pushing for a yes vote, I won't be siding with them, bunch of headbangers.
    No abortions means more men to fight the headbangers, can sleep soundly with that decision.

    You're proving them right by taking that stance. It might be easy for you to make a vote out of spite but this is an issue that is having a huge impact on maternity care and pregnancy options. Please don't use your vote to get back at someone who annoyed you.


  • #913
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,777 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Do we get a look in anywhere or can a man/boyfriend/fiance/husband legally challenge a woman's decision to abort?

    I've put in a poll to see what you think

    what about a rapist?

    Would you support their crusade through the courts to force their victim to carry their child?


  • #914
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


  • #915
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,777 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    After seen the bonkerness of the last few weeks by the same people pushing for a yes vote, I won't be siding with them, bunch of headbangers.
    No abortions means more men to fight the headbangers, can sleep soundly with that decision.

    sorry but voting against something because you claim to not like some people voting for something is bullsh!t and nothing more than a pretense..

    In my opinion those who claim to be on the fence for something like this are just cowards who are afraid to be honest about how they really feel..


  • #916
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,106 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    eviltwin wrote: »
    You're proving them right by taking that stance. It might be easy for you to make a vote out of spite but this is an issue that is having a huge impact on maternity care and pregnancy options. Please don't use your vote to get back at someone who annoyed you.

    They think there right anyway, look I just don't like what's went on the last few weeks and it was spearheaded by the same people as the yes camp.
    Did like what Leo said and was backing him but he really let himself down the last few weeks. He's not capable of making a tough decision from what I've seen, just takes the populist side.


  • #917
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,106 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    lawred2 wrote: »
    what about a rapist?

    Would you support their crusade through the courts to force their victim to carry their child?

    Of course not, I'd support nailing them to a tree i'd also support nailing feminists to trees but we're not voting on either.


  • #918
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    They think there right anyway, look I just don't like what's went on the last few weeks and it was spearheaded by the same people as the yes camp.
    Did like what Leo said and was backing him but he really let himself down the last few weeks. He's not capable of making a tough decision from what I've seen, just takes the populist side.

    Ignore the dramatics and focus on the issue. Decide on what you support and vote accordingly. I would hope you vote yes but if you vote no I would hope its because you really believe it's the right thing to do and not because you want to annoy someone. It's an important issue, it deserves to be treated with seriousness and respect.


  • #919
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,103 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    drunkmonkey wrote: »

    They think there right anyway, look I just don't like what's went on the last few weeks and it was spearheaded by the same people as the yes camp.
    Did like what Leo said and was backing him but he really let himself down the last few weeks. He's not capable of making a tough decision from what I've seen, just takes the populist side.

    What does any of that have to do with whether you think abortion should be available in Ireland?

    It smacks of abdicating your responsibility to come to a conclusion on the abortion question by just changing the question to whether or not you like the campaigners.

    It’s turning legislation into entertainment. I can hardly think of a more stupid approach to voting.


  • #920
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,777 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Of course not, I'd support nailing them to a tree i'd also support nailing feminists to trees but we're not voting on either.

    but it's the fetus' biological father?


  • #921
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,777 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    What does any of that have to do with whether you think abortion should be available in Ireland?

    It smacks of abdicating your responsibility to come to a conclusion on the abortion question by just changing the question to whether or not you like the campaigners.

    It’s turning legislation into entertainment. I can hardly think of a more stupid approach to voting.

    It's finding the first possible reason to vote they way they really want to but are too cowardly to be up front and honest about..


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  • #922
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    After seen the bonkerness of the last few weeks by the same people pushing for a yes vote, I won't be siding with them, bunch of headbangers.
    No abortions means more men to fight the headbangers, can sleep soundly with that decision.

    By far the saddest, most disappointing post I've seen on this referendum.
    What a sickening, selfish attitude. By all means, vote No if you genuinely believe its for the best, with a clear conscience.
    But doing so to get some sort of invisible "one up" on people you find annoying is ridiculous.

    Did it ever occur to you that people are so passionate on the matter because it affects maternity care for every single woman, it isn't just about abortion?

    Its such an immature stance to take.


  • #923
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,106 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    lawred2 wrote: »
    but it's the fetus' biological father?

    Just thinking about this, if it was a rape there's no way it would be proven that it was actually rape before the baby is born.


  • #924
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    It’s turning legislation into entertainment. I can hardly think of a more stupid approach to voting.

    It's working just fine in the US

    :(


  • #925
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Just thinking about this, if it was a rape there's no way it would be proven that it was actually rape before the baby is born.

    How do come to that conclusion? You don't need a baby to prove rape.


  • #926
    optogirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,042 ✭✭✭optogirl


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Just thinking about this, if it was a rape there's no way it would be proven that it was actually rape before the baby is born.

    Huh?


  • #927
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,106 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    eviltwin wrote: »
    How do come to that conclusion? You don't need a baby to prove rape.

    With the Irish court system the kid would probably be doing it's leaving cert by the time it's proven rape.


  • #928
    thierry14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭thierry14


    Don't think a man should have a vote

    Neither should women over 50

    Not going to affect them


  • #929
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    thierry14 wrote: »
    Don't think a man should have a vote

    Neither should women over 50

    Not going to affect them

    How's that? Are we turfing them all out of the country after the referendum?
    This is something that involves the whole country, the whole society.

    You don't think it effects husbands, fathers, mothers when their loved one needs to leave the country to have an abortion? Or needs to carry their rapists child to term? and so on and so forth.


  • #930
    Martina1991
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭Martina1991


    thierry14 wrote:
    Don't think a man should have a vote
    thierry14 wrote:
    Neither should women over 50
    thierry14 wrote:
    Not going to affect them
    It could affect their daughters, granddaughters, partners, sisters, friends.

    Literally any female they care about.
    Of course everyone should get a vote.


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  • #931
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    thierry14 wrote: »
    Don't think a man should have a vote

    Neither should women over 50

    Not going to affect them

    That's crap, it can potentially affect anyone.

    Men can face decisions about abortion with their partners, daughters

    Some women over 50 were under the voting age when this shoddy amendment was introduced, they've lived their entire reproductive lives with no right to chose or consent re their maternity care, why shouldn't they have a say for their daughters, nieces, and granddaughters experiences of maternity care?


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