How to make a simple side-passage gate secure?

xboxdad · 10-04-2018 10:05am #1

Hello,

Say you have a simple side-passage gate like the one on the picture and you need to make sure ppl climbing over it won't be able to open it / take it off to steal heavy valuables from your back garden that they could not lift over the gate.

Can you give me some practical advice on what to do?

I'm thinking:

- Reinforce the mounting of the gate. It seems way too easy to take it off with some simple tools. It needs to be very-very time consuming.
- Install a serious lock system that slides into the ground / walls / etc... on at least 5-9 points. Again, needs to be very-very time consuming to take off, break or hack, even with angle grinders.
- Cover with wood so that it's not see-through at least

I'm struggling to find such serious lock systems on the internet or examples of seriously mounted gates / etc....

Thanks for any hints / links / advice.

double-ring-side-gate-dublin-BD-Gates-Railings-1024x576.jpg

draiochtanois · 10-04-2018 10:08am

This post has been deleted.

xboxdad · 10-04-2018 10:10am

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It's not my house on the picture.

punisher5112 · 10-04-2018 10:14am

xboxdad wrote: »

Hello,

Say you have a simple side-passage gate like the one on the picture and you need to make sure ppl climbing over it won't be able to open it / take it off to steal heavy valuables from your back garden that they could not lift over the gate.

Can you give me some practical advice on what to do?

I'm thinking:

- Reinforce the mounting of the gate. It seems way too easy to take it off with some simple tools. It needs to be very-very time consuming.
- Install a serious lock system that slides into the ground / walls / etc... on at least 5-9 points. Again, needs to be very-very time consuming to take off, break or hack, even with angle grinders.
- Cover with wood so that it's not see-through at least

I'm struggling to find such serious lock systems on the internet or examples of seriously mounted gates / etc....

Thanks for any hints / links / advice.

double-ring-side-gate-dublin-BD-Gates-Railings-1024x576.jpg

I would put a steel sheet on the back of it to stop it being so easy to see past.

Consider fitting a CCTV camera.

You could get a metal bar and lock it on one side as a reinforcement.

colm_c · 10-04-2018 11:48am

If you have anything heavy that you want to stop anyone taking anchor it well, twice if needs be, the gate is only part of the solution.

Also keep it out of plain sight from the front or from someone looking over your wall/gate. Less scum that know it's there the better.

xboxdad · 10-04-2018 11:55am

colm_c wrote: »

If you have anything heavy that you want to stop anyone taking anchor it well, twice if needs be, the gate is only part of the solution.

Also keep it out of plain sight from the front or from someone looking over your wall/gate. Less scum that know it's there the better.

Thanks, I got these parts covered in my plans. The only part I have no solution for is the gate. Say they already angle-grinded the chains/locks, it's only the gate that can stop them.

RebelButtMunch · 10-04-2018 11:59am

Steel plate seems a good solution to stop people seeing through. If you leave out crumbs you'll get rats as the saying goes. Really though you're p!55ing against the wind there securing the gate when the wall is the same height.

I suppose what I'm getting at is that if someone is going through the bother to deconstruct the gate they be better off just lifting whatever they wanted over the wall.

mloc123 · 10-04-2018 12:04pm

If somebody is willing to bring an angle grinder and make all that noise to get into your garden... I am not sure anything would stop them? What exactly are you worried will be stolen... have you bars of gold in the garden?

xboxdad · 10-04-2018 12:15pm

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

Steel plate seems a good solution to stop people seeing through. If you leave out crumbs you'll get rats as the saying goes. Really though you're p!55ing against the wind there securing the gate when the wall is the same height.

I suppose what I'm getting at is that if someone is going through the bother to deconstruct the gate they be better off just lifting whatever they wanted over the wall.

It's like 200kg they'd need to lift over the wall.

xboxdad · 10-04-2018 12:20pm

mloc123 wrote: »

If somebody is willing to bring an angle grinder and make all that noise to get into your garden... I am not sure anything would stop them? What exactly are you worried will be stolen... have you bars of gold in the garden?

Ok, I was trying to avoid putting too much info in here as it's about security

...but I guess I can say this much:

- It's about motorbike security
- The story usually starts with a car following you home from work so they know the bike is in there without having to see it inside
- They probably can't lift 200kg above the wall/gate in a way that the bike is still useful for them
- Will have a ground anchor with almax chain and disc locks. It's like 3 minutes of work for them with an angle grinder.
- Once they're able to push the bike around in the garden I don't want them to be able to bring it through the gate in the matter of minutes.

mloc123 · 10-04-2018 12:41pm

xboxdad wrote: »

Ok, I was trying to avoid putting too much info in here as it's about security ...but I guess I can say this much:

- It's about motorbike security
- The story usually starts with a car following you home from work so they know the bike is in there without having to see it inside
- They probably can't lift 200kg above the wall/gate in a way that the bike is still useful for them
- Will have a ground anchor with almax chain and disc locks. It's like 3 minutes of work for them with an angle grinder.
- Once they're able to push the bike around in the garden I don't want them to be able to bring it through the gate in the matter of minutes.

Okay... so the concern will be that they would try to take it while you are out of the house, as all that noise would easily alert you at night.

Gate wise, would a bolt with a shrouded enclosure for a padlock work? This is what you will see on garages to avoid the lock being cut. You still have the issue of them cutting the bolt... but if they plan to do that surely they will cut the hinges off the wall too?

xboxdad · 10-04-2018 12:52pm

mloc123 wrote: »

Okay... so the concern will be that they would try to take it while you are out of the house, as all that noise would easily alert you at night.

Gate wise, would a bolt with a shrouded enclosure for a padlock work? This is what you will see on garages to avoid the lock being cut. You still have the issue of them cutting the bolt... but if they plan to do that surely they will cut the hinges off the wall too?

Thanks, the "shrouded enclosure for a padlock" idea sounds something I'll want to research in detail.

I'll definitely want to come up with some alternative to having these weak looking easy to remove/cut hinges as well. Nothing makes any sense without a solution to that in my view.

Also, the overall solution needs to remain practical. I mean I need to leave for work early in the morning sometimes and I can't have 3 sets of chains / padlocks / ground anchors attached to the bike. It's more practical to have a bit of a solution on the bike and another serious solution at the gate. So that none of these are over-complicated, but very solid combined.

colm_c · 10-04-2018 1:00pm

Honestly, as a fellow motorbike owner, I understand.

But also understand, there is no foolproof way to protect your bike, if someone really wants it, they'll take it, no matter how good your security is.

All you can do, is deter the opportunist so he moves on elsewhere to an easier target.

Beyond what you've planned (ground anchor(s), locks, re-enforced gate), I'm not sure there's much left: tracker? CCTV? removing the wheels? building a block shed? moving house?

Malayalam · 10-04-2018 1:03pm

Horrible that we have to think like this.

I've been working for several days trying to make my garden and tunnels secure from goats, deers, and wandering bullocks. So, if it ain't one thing...

CCTV and a metal shed for your bike might be your best bet?

http://www.shedsdirectireland.com/product/the-extreme-shed-copy/

Maybe you could build one, like a cage even, or something like it from scrap, welded?

punisher5112 · 10-04-2018 1:21pm

Get those anchors and properly cement them in.

I would use 3 good locks/chains.

Make it as difficult as possible and put in pir sensor lights also.

xboxdad · 10-04-2018 1:45pm

colm_c wrote: »

Honestly, as a fellow motorbike owner, I understand.

But also understand, there is no foolproof way to protect your bike, if someone really wants it, they'll take it, no matter how good your security is.

All you can do, is deter the opportunist so he moves on elsewhere to an easier target.

Beyond what you've planned (ground anchor(s), locks, re-enforced gate), I'm not sure there's much left: tracker? CCTV? removing the wheels? building a block shed? moving house?

Yeah, well... I don't want to leave the realms of practicality

mloc123 · 10-04-2018 1:55pm

xboxdad wrote: »

Yeah, well... I don't want to leave the realms of practicality

It is like that phrase, you don't need to out run a bear... just the person you are with.

I assume you have a reasonably common bike, so you just need to make it difficult enough for them to move onto the house down the road with a similar bike and not as many locks..

xboxdad · 10-04-2018 1:56pm

Malayalam wrote: »

Horrible that we have to think like this.

I've been working for several days trying to make my garden and tunnels secure from goats, deers, and wandering bullocks. So, if it ain't one thing...

CCTV and a metal shed for your bike might be your best bet?

http://www.shedsdirectireland.com/product/the-extreme-shed-copy/

Maybe you could build one, like a cage even, or something like it from scrap, welded?

This link with the metal shed is not bad I'd say! Needs serious hinge and lock updates though

GreeBo · 10-04-2018 2:01pm

If the thief has reached the point where they have removed your disc locks and anchor chain with a grinder, there is nothing you can do to stop them also getting through the gate.

xboxdad · 10-04-2018 2:01pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Get those anchors and properly cement them in.

I would use 3 good locks/chains.

Make it as difficult as possible and put in pir sensor lights also.

Thanks for the PIR Sensor idea, I'll look into it.

3 sets of locks, chains... Well, that's where it starts getting impractical for me to do at 6:30 in the morning.

This is the anchor I'm planning to get:
http://www.yanchor.com/

xboxdad · 10-04-2018 2:03pm

GreeBo wrote: »

If the thief has reached the point where they have removed your disc locks and anchor chain with a grinder, there is nothing you can do to stop them also getting through the gate.

I'm hoping they'll think this through once they see the reinforced gate in addition to the almax chain. I don't actually expect them going through all that. I expect them to say "f**k that!"

GreeBo · 10-04-2018 2:06pm

GreeBo wrote: »

If the thief has reached the point where they have removed your disc locks and anchor chain with a grinder, there is nothing you can do to stop them also getting through the gate.

Unless....and I may be getting a bit Thunderbirds here...but if your bike is anchored to a platform thats 2 foot below the level of the ground, they are going to have a hard time getting it out.

Now this platform will need to be raised/lowered by you, but if thats controlled by a key, unless they hotwire it, you should be good. (Especially if you can cut the power to the lift in a non obvious way) Or you could use a manual one that has a lock nut type of connection.

but the costs here are going to be....not insignificant

punisher5112 · 10-04-2018 2:07pm

The amount I see that never lock their motorbikes around the city is mad, even steering lock not engaged.

Roadtoad · 10-04-2018 2:18pm

Deform the wall hinge nuts with a cold chisel so that they cannot be unwound with a hand spanner.

xboxdad · 10-04-2018 2:20pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Unless....and I may be getting a bit Thunderbirds here...but if your bike is anchored to a platform thats 2 foot below the level of the ground, they are going to have a hard time getting it out.

Now this platform will need to be raised/lowered by you, but if thats controlled by a key, unless they hotwire it, you should be good. (Especially if you can cut the power to the lift in a non obvious way) Or you could use a manual one that has a lock nut type of connection.

but the costs here are going to be....not insignificant

This sounds really practical and effective. I'd love to have this.
...but I have the feeling we're talking thousands of EUR of investment here. I'd better store gold on that platform if I spend that much on it

GreeBo · 10-04-2018 2:54pm

xboxdad wrote: »

This sounds really practical and effective. I'd love to have this.
...but I have the feeling we're talking thousands of EUR of investment here. I'd better store gold on that platform if I spend that much on it

https://www.lawson-his.co.uk/sealey-mc680a-motorcycle-lift-680kg-capacity-heavy-duty-air-hydraulic

One of these could work well.
You just disconnect & store the jack in the house and leave the cable exposed somewhere you can connect to.

xboxdad · 10-04-2018 3:00pm

GreeBo wrote: »

https://www.lawson-his.co.uk/sealey-mc680a-motorcycle-lift-680kg-capacity-heavy-duty-air-hydraulic

One of these could work well.
You just disconnect & store the jack in the house and leave the cable exposed somewhere you can connect to.

Nice! Assuming this is weather proof (which I'm not sure about) you'd have to dig a huge hole, reinforce the walls/floor (concrete/brick I guess) and have some sort of a plan/system to channel water away so that it doesn't fill up with rain water. Definitely a neat solution, but the overall cost would be quite high I think.

GreeBo · 10-04-2018 3:04pm

xboxdad wrote: »

Nice! Assuming this is weather proof (which I'm not sure about) you'd have to dig a huge hole, reinforce the walls/floor (concrete/brick I guess) and have some sort of a plan/system to channel water away so that it doesn't fill up with rain water. Definitely a neat solution, but the overall cost would be quite high I think.

Stick a shed over it

xboxdad · 10-04-2018 3:06pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Stick a shed over it

In any case, it won't get cheap. ...but a cool James-Bond type solution. I can imagine an opening/closing roof on top of it seeded with grass, melting into the environment

Lumen · 11-04-2018 6:44am

Build a knee wall around three sides of a slab, fourth side has retractable steel bollard or two.

Add rail to knee wall if you're worried about lifting.

Do it in brick and it'll even look nice.

xboxdad · 11-04-2018 6:49am

Lumen wrote: »

Build a knee wall around three sides of a slab, fourth side has retractable steel bollard or two.

Add rail to knee wall if you're worried about lifting.

Do it in brick and it'll even look nice.

This might actually work! I'll look into the costs. Thanks!

Mrcaramelchoc · 11-04-2018 6:53am

A big well trained and very eager

german shepherd.ate the arse off the bastards when they come through the gate.
Seriously though is a dog an option?

xboxdad · 11-04-2018 6:54am

Mrcaramelchoc wrote: »

A big well trained and very eager german shepherd.ate the arse off the bastards when they come through the gate.
Seriously though is a dog an option?

A small/useless dog at most

11-04-2018 7:00am

Is the bike in a shed or garage?

11-04-2018 7:03am

mloc123 wrote: »

Okay... so the concern will be that they would try to take it while you are out of the house, as all that noise would easily alert you at night.

Gate wise, would a bolt with a shrouded enclosure for a padlock work? This is what you will see on garages to avoid the lock being cut. You still have the issue of them cutting the bolt... but if they plan to do that surely they will cut the hinges off the wall too?

I think this is what I was gonna suggest. Gonna upload a photo

xboxdad · 11-04-2018 7:07am

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Is the bike in a shed or garage?

I was planning to put the bike on a slab next to a wall with a serious ground anchor and almax chain. Covered with something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk-A2Ou8i0M

11-04-2018 7:08am

I’m useless at embedding pics. Here’s the links

https://www.imageupload.co.uk/image/ESE6
https://www.imageupload.co.uk/image/ESEh

sbsquarepants · 11-04-2018 7:10am

xboxdad wrote: »

This might actually work! I'll look into the costs. Thanks!

Am I missing something - just insure the damn thing and if someone robs it, they rob it!

I don't have a motor bike, but if I had anything which was causing me so much hassle to prevent theft, I'd just get rid of it. People rob things, it's just a fact of life.

Insure it, lock it, forget about it!

Who wants to live in a fortress to protect a damn bike? Not to mention the hassle of securing and releasing the thing everytime you want to use it!

xboxdad · 11-04-2018 7:10am

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I’m useless at embedding pics. Here’s the links

https://www.imageupload.co.uk/image/ESE6
https://www.imageupload.co.uk/image/ESEh

I'd definitely do something like this if I went with a padlock based solution.
Thank you.

ubs69 · 11-04-2018 7:13am

You could put in a T shaped drive way post in the side passage they can wheel around it or lift over it , might help slow down a bit more ,

xboxdad · 11-04-2018 7:14am

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Am I missing something - just insure the damn thing and if someone robs it, they rob it!

I don't have a motor bike, but if I had anything which was causing me so much hassle to prevent theft, I'd just get rid of it. People rob things, it's just a fact of life.

Insure it, lock it, forget about it!

Who wants to live in a fortress to protect a damn bike? Not to mention the hassle of securing and releasing the thing everytime you want to use it!

Agreed. That's why I say the solution needs to remain practical.
I've no interest introducing something that holds me up for 15 minutes in the morning.
I think there were a couple of good ideas here already that would work without introducing too much complexity to my routine.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you make an insurance claim, your premium goes up.

hufpc8w3adnk65 · 11-04-2018 7:17am

IP WIFI camera
PIR Lights
Weld existing bolts on gate so they can’t open
Cover existing gate with a sheet so it’s not see through

I’d add in a second taller gate also at corner of the house so even if someone watches you open the first gate they see the second one as a deterant

sbsquarepants · 11-04-2018 7:30am

xboxdad wrote: »

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you make an insurance claim, your premium goes up.

It does of course, and I suppose a lot depends on the value of the bike.

Don't mind me I was just thinking out loud - I was actually thinking back to an old neighbour of mine who had his front garden set up like something out of Indiana Jones, all to protect a car that pretty much doubled in value when you filled the petrol tank!

He was quite odd though. 6am every morning you'd hear him rattling chains and moving security poles and then the clincher....."Caution, this vehicle is reversing, Caution, this vehicle is reversing" blaring out while he backed out of his driveway:D

xboxdad · 11-04-2018 7:33am

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It does of course, and I suppose a lot depends on the value of the bike.

Don't mind me I was just thinking out loud - I was actually thinking back to an old neighbour of mine who had his front garden set up like something out of Indiana Jones, all to protect a car that pretty much doubled in value when you filled the petrol tank!

He was quite odd though. 6am every morning you'd hear him rattling chains and moving security poles and then the clincher....."Caution, this vehicle is reversing, Caution, this vehicle is reversing" blaring out while he backed out of his driveway:D

Yeah, I need to keep the costs and complexity under control. Can't afford to spend a huge amount on high-tech laser stuff from Smyths

Darando · 11-04-2018 9:43am

If you really want to make it awkward - 1) Ground anchor/locks 2) upgrade the gate (weld the bolts after so can't be undone with a spanner/socket) and lastly what I saw before 3) Install a security post (either in front or behind the gate). The security post will make it impossible to get a bike past if the size is correct. It's just another hinderence to them!

xboxdad · 11-04-2018 10:10am

Darando wrote: »

If you really want to make it awkward - 1) Ground anchor/locks 2) upgrade the gate (weld the bolts after so can't be undone with a spanner/socket) and lastly what I saw before 3) Install a security post (either in front or behind the gate). The security post will make it impossible to get a bike past if the size is correct. It's just another hinderence to them!

Well, actually putting a well chosen security post in front of the gate might be the most cost effective solution that brings serious security improvements. Good thinking! Thanks

Hurrache · 11-04-2018 1:16pm

Malayalam wrote: »

metal shed for your bike might be your best bet?

http://www.shedsdirectireland.com/product/the-extreme-shed-copy/

That caught my interest until I realised there was no floor in it, like you'd get with a wooden shed.

Bonzo Delaney · 12-04-2018 6:37am

Hurrache wrote: »

That caught my interest until I realised there was no floor in it, like you'd get with a wooden shed.

You could always pour a concrete one afterwards

PhoenixParker · 12-04-2018 9:31am

A second gate at the other end of the passage.

Hurrache · 12-04-2018 9:46am

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

You could always pour a concrete one afterwards

Yeah, I'll try work something out. Where I want to put it is half grass/soil, half concrete path so I may level the grass side and line it with paving slabs so there's a flat base and figure out how to secure it to the ground then.

cheif kaiser · 12-04-2018 11:36pm

1) Clad the gate so cannot see through it.
2) Fit a telescopic parking post behind the gate so the gate cannot be opened (assuming it opens in) and bike cannot fit either side of post. https://ultrasecure.ie/76-fully-telescopic-parking-security-posts?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhaWDm_O12gIVr53tCh03QAC-EAAYAiAAEgKdjfD_BwE
3) Fit an alarmed disc lock to the bike https://www.amazon.co.uk/Oxford-Boss-Alarm-lock-Yellow/dp/B00F0NHINO/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1523575807&sr=8-4&keywords=oxford+boss+disc+lock

How to make a simple side-passage gate secure?

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