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Eircode - its implemetation (merged)

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Comments

  • #1982
    joujoujou
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,218 ✭✭✭✭joujoujou
    Unregistered Users


    I remember courier companies claiming they'd have no use of eircodes at all. Companies, maybe.

    But drivers themselves use them wider and wider - just last 2 weeks, 3 drivers (each from different courier co.) rang me for directions (I'm in the middle of nowhere) and they all asked for eircode as well!

    Simple for them, simple for me. Win-win.


  • #1983
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Why did they need to ring you. Did they not have them already with your order...


  • #1984
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beauf wrote: »
    Why did they need to ring you. Did they not have them already with your order...
    I've recently received parcels that have had the eircode omitted from the address, despite providing it when the goods were ordered.

    It appears that some companies out there are not using the their label printing systems correctly.


  • #1985
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Amazing they go to you without an Eircode. :D


  • #1986
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beauf wrote: »
    Amazing they go to you without an Eircode. :D
    Fortunately, the local firms know us now, but most stuff does have the eircode on it.


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  • #1987
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    Here's something I found interesting about the use of Eircodes recently.

    I went through a load of website checking for the best car insurance and they all asked me for my Eircode. I then needed to send my documents off to the insurance company and the address to send documents to didn't include an Eircode?


  • #1988
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Fortunately, the local firms know us now, but most stuff does have the eircode on it.

    Imagine they didn't know you, and we were pre eircode. It would be chaos...

    https://youtu.be/V43K5yFn5GM


  • #1989
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,750 ✭✭✭plodder


    my3cents wrote: »
    Here's something I found interesting about the use of Eircodes recently.

    I went through a load of website checking for the best car insurance and they all asked me for my Eircode. I then needed to send my documents off to the insurance company and the address to send documents to didn't include an Eircode?
    Eircode is more useful to the insurance companies as a property identifier than for addressing their post. The reason they ask you for it when looking for a quote is it tells them immediately where you live and what your insurance risk is. Their post will get delivered with or without the eircode on it.


  • #1990
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    plodder wrote: »
    Eircode is more useful to the insurance companies as a property identifier than for addressing their post. The reason they ask you for it when looking for a quote is it tells them immediately where you live and what your insurance risk is. Their post will get delivered with or without the eircode on it.

    Congratulations on explaining the obvious.

    If a company wants me to use my Eircode then they should set a good example and use it for their own address.


  • #1991
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,750 ✭✭✭plodder


    my3cents wrote: »
    Congratulations on explaining the obvious.
    If it's so obvious why did you ask?
    If a company wants me to use my Eircode then they should set a good example and use it for their own address.
    Why should they? What difference would it make?


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  • #1992
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    One issue I've encountered with a German company has been printing part of the Eircode only and also reformatting my address.

    I provided my full address and Eircode and I got a parcel sent to something like:

    Main Street 4
    X1512
    Irland

    One sent by courier got here because it also has my phone number but the stuff sent through the post was returned to them due to insufficient address information.

    I've found this issue with several German companies in particular, they seem to reformat addresses to:

    Street Number
    Town 5-char Postcode.

    It's obviously just a case of not being aware of "overseas is different from home" but it's very annoying when you provide the information correctly.

    I've also had a few incidents of UK call centres telling me it was an invalid UK post code and having to give them a history lesson in geopolitics.

    However, I think in both cases it's just companies being unprepared pan EU / international trade rather than an issue with Eircode.

    Other than that, I've found Eircode works fine and I've even had tradesmen like a plumber and an electrician both ask for it to find the house. Just "text me your Eircode".


  • #1993
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    plodder wrote: »
    If it's so obvious why did you ask?

    Why should they? What difference would it make?

    I didn't ask anything I just pointed out that companies that require customers to use an Eircode don't use if for their own address, sorry if the question mark confused you.

    Is it too clever a point for you to understand that if a company requires you to use and remember your Eircode they shouldn't be so lazy as not to bother using there own.


  • #1994
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,570 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    I imagine it's a lack of communication between their risk assessment department and their communications department or something like that.

    Besides, they don't tell you their age, profession, or number of penalty points. They just see Eircode as infirmation they need from us, not the other way round.


  • #1995
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    TheChizler wrote: »
    I imagine it's a lack of communication between their risk assessment department and their communications department or something like that.

    Besides, they don't tell you their age, profession, or number of penalty points. They just see Eircode as infirmation they need from us, not the other way round.

    They weren't even using Eircodes own database. My Eircode showed my address but not the same one in the Eircode database. Mail finds me with either but my "insurance" address while slightly more geographically accurate than my Eircode address is not may "postal mail" address.


  • #1996
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TheChizler wrote: »
    I imagine it's a lack of communication between their risk assessment department and their communications department or something like that.

    Besides, they don't tell you their age, profession, or number of penalty points. They just see Eircode as infirmation they need from us, not the other way round.
    They probably plan on using the eircode as a unique identifier that they can share between insurance companies to check whether you have been refused insurance in the past and similar checks. Particularity with flood insurance.


  • #1997
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,750 ✭✭✭plodder


    my3cents wrote: »
    I didn't ask anything I just pointed out that companies that require customers to use an Eircode don't use if for their own address, sorry if the question mark confused you.

    Is it too clever a point for you to understand that if a company requires you to use and remember your Eircode they shouldn't be so lazy as not to bother using there own.
    I understand the point. I just don't agree with it. They can use Eircode whatever way they like. They don't require you to "remember" anything, except where you keep the little piece of paper with your eircode written on it. If you want to remember it, but are having trouble, I'm sure there are lots of other ways to do that.
    Deleted User wrote:
    They probably plan on using the eircode as a unique identifier that they can share between insurance companies to check whether you have been refused insurance in the past and similar checks. Particularity with flood insurance.
    Good point. I'd forgotten about that aspect.


  • #1998
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I really doubt they'd bother. They make more money not getting into specific locations and issues just over state the risk for a wider group of people to justify Higher premiums.


  • #1999
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    Some companies may be gathering the data whether they're using it or not at the moment, it's a useful database key for ensuring they don't get multiple applications from the same non unique address.

    A lot of businesses will implement Eircode in their next update of IT systems / software.


  • #2000
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    my3cents wrote: »
    Congratulations on explaining the obvious.

    If a company wants me to use my Eircode then they should set a good example and use it for their own address.
    Nope, don’t agree with that, and your tone could use a bit of work.

    Play nice.


  • #2001
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    EdgeCase wrote: »
    Some companies may be gathering the data whether they're using it or not at the moment, it's a useful database key for ensuring they don't get multiple applications from the same non unique address.

    A lot of businesses will implement Eircode in their next update of IT systems / software.

    For sure they are collecting alsorts of stuff they aren't using and perhaps don't even need.

    In the context of house sharing, family's or apartments or offices lots of services will have multiple applications.


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  • #2002
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Nope, don’t agree with that, and your tone could use a bit of work.

    Play nice.

    Thanks it didn't take much from Plodder to remind me why I unsubscribed from this thread shortly after it started.

    Don't worry lesson learned I won't be back again.

    /unsubscribe


  • #2003
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beauf wrote: »
    For sure they are collecting alsorts of stuff they aren't using and perhaps don't even need.

    In the context of house sharing, family's or apartments or offices lots of services will have multiple applications.
    As far as I know, if there are multiple occupancy buildings, each tenant will have their own eircode, excluding shared properties where several people are in the same floorspace.


  • #2004
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    beauf wrote: »
    For sure they are collecting alsorts of stuff they aren't using and perhaps don't even need.

    In the context of house sharing, family's or apartments or offices lots of services will have multiple applications.

    Offices and apartments, in the same building, all have different Eircodes. At least, once An Post has recognised them as existing.
    There are plenty of instances where a home business has a different Eircode to the household.

    There's still a huge problem in not being able to initiate the process to get a new Eircode on a new build though. I know a few people who've had issues with OpenEir (Eircom Wholesale) refusing applications because they couldn't find an eircode.

    You should be able to request one with a successful planning application or something like that.

    There's too much reliance on being able to just pick them up by osmosis of some sort and that's going to get messier when you start to see a major pick up in new builds (which is already happening.)

    There needs to be some kind of application process.


  • #2005
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    EdgeCase wrote: »
    Offices and apartments, in the same building, all have different Eircodes. At least, once An Post has recognised them as existing.
    There are plenty of instances where a home business has a different Eircode to the household.
    ...

    I was more thinking of car insurance or similar services where lots of people at the same eircode having different policies. Had that problem with other computer systems finding unique people. Sometimes you might have twins or two people same name same dob.

    I've never implemented eircode on other systems except for transport. Probably why I wasn't aware of different apartments having different eircode.


  • #2006
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    You'd only get that if you've a family with multiple adults in the same house or a house share.

    It's an addressing system, not a personal identification system. There's not much you can do about some of the scenarios you're describing, except ask people to act in good faith when taking out policies.

    It's illegal to use PPSN for example, outside of specifically legislated uses. A commercial company can't just use it.


  • #2007
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    EdgeCase wrote: »
    You'd only get that if you've a family with multiple adults in the same house or a house share....

    Only...its likely the most common scenario.

    GDPR will put a different slant on collecting information and how you use it.


  • #2008
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    The issue that was causing most problems for insurers and utility companies was non-unique addresses. It's a big issue outside urban areas, and even in urban areas where house names may be used sometimes and numbers in other cases.

    In a lot of areas it was just name + town land, which could also involve multiple people with similar / the same name.

    You can't legally use PPSN for anything that's not specified in the legislation for the use of PPSN, and there are no other unique identifiers for people. Mostly, you just have to take them at their word. You can check utility bills and so on too.

    There's a limit to what Eircode or any address can do. It's not intended to do any more than uniquely identify a particular address. The fact that there's a number of people at that address, isn't really something that could be resolved by anything other than a national ID system and that's something that would be politically problematic and hugely problematic form a data protection point of view.

    Even in the context of provision of public services, the ID card that's been issued is proving to be highly controversial.

    There's a point at which you just have to trust people.


  • #2009
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I think a bigger issue was them giving inconsistencies in quotes. Which is why they ask for car reg now. A car reg is unique. a eircode in terms of car insurance isn't. They use the excuse of looking up car specs.


  • #2010
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,750 ✭✭✭plodder


    EdgeCase wrote: »
    Offices and apartments, in the same building, all have different Eircodes. At least, once An Post has recognised them as existing.
    There are plenty of instances where a home business has a different Eircode to the household.

    There's still a huge problem in not being able to initiate the process to get a new Eircode on a new build though. I know a few people who've had issues with OpenEir (Eircom Wholesale) refusing applications because they couldn't find an eircode.

    You should be able to request one with a successful planning application or something like that.

    There's too much reliance on being able to just pick them up by osmosis of some sort and that's going to get messier when you start to see a major pick up in new builds (which is already happening.)

    There needs to be some kind of application process.
    That issue was discussed here first at least three years ago.

    They could fix it if they cared enough.


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  • #2011
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    It should be possible to just notify them of a new build. An Post could verify it exists.


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