Two Families in Turmoil.....

wexie · 06-04-2018 08:59PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Some people are just born bad to the bone.

I really genuinely don't believe that.

Now....I'm happy enough to concede I might be wrong in that belief. But I genuinely can't imagine there's such a thing as a newborn baby that already has bad in them. Made bad by poor parenting, unstable childhood, psychological trauma, poor life decisions or whatever else, absolutely.

Do I believe there are adults beyond redemption, again absolutely.

But I just cannot believe there is such a thing as babies being born that can't be turned into somewhat functioning, or at least not evil bastard, adults.

And if you have proof otherwise please keep it to yourself. I'm a cynical enough bastard as it is, please leave me this illusion. (if that's what it is)

:(:o

meeeeh · 06-04-2018 09:00PM

flutered wrote: »

the time has come that acts such as this and the incident in the ballymun school need to be legistlated for, the peoples council or whatever it is called need to be given a new objective

Acts such as this? Do you know more than rest of us?

iamwhoiam · 06-04-2018 09:00PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Some people are just born bad to the bone.

Mary Bell, Thompson and Venebles being examples of this.

If this kid did what is alleged then he is in the same category.

Mary Bell wasn't born bad in my opinion , she was a product of bad parenting and neglectful childhhood . Mary herself remembers being offered fior sex to friends of her mothers
Most bad children are a product of bad childhoods and a lack of structure or of sexual or physical abuse

screamer · 06-04-2018 09:01PM

I think the bigger question for sure is what age kids should be made responsible for their actions? Our laws are always playing catch up outdated and archiac. In that void, our children are not being protected and more and more children are being abused emotionally and in this case allegedly sexually by peers. We must protect our children and childhood in general.

wexie · 06-04-2018 09:03PM

screamer wrote: »

I think the bigger question for sure is what age kids should be made responsible for their actions?

that's certainly a discussion worth having. You don't need to look too far these days to see young kids you can reasonably assume are going to get in trouble with the law.

Not having them take responsibility for their actions isn't going to help turn them into well adjusted adults.

gingergirl · 06-04-2018 09:25PM

Recently listened to Mary Flaherty from CARI Foundation explaining they are seeing children as young as 5 who are displaying sexualised behaviour which may be put down to accidently accessing online pornography. All very depressing stuff, childhood is so short

eviltwin · 06-04-2018 09:35PM

gingergirl wrote: »

Recently listened to Mary Flaherty from CARI Foundation explaining they are seeing children as young as 5 who are displaying sexualised behaviour which may be put down to accidently accessing online pornography. All very depressing stuff, childhood is so short

I used to work for them. When I left we had more calls about child on child abuse than adult on child. I agree with the poster who said this could be a case of two victims. It's possible it's a kid acting out something he saw online. I hope all involved get the right support, sadly it's virtually non existent

Grandeeod · 06-04-2018 10:05PM

gingergirl wrote: »

Recently listened to Mary Flaherty from CARI Foundation explaining they are seeing children as young as 5 who are displaying sexualised behaviour which may be put down to accidently accessing online pornography. All very depressing stuff, childhood is so short

eviltwin wrote: »

I used to work for them. When I left we had more calls about child on child abuse than adult on child. I agree with the poster who said this could be a case of two victims. It's possible it's a kid acting out something he saw online. I hope all involved get the right support, sadly it's virtually non existent

Both these posts are aspects that I thought of when I read the original news reports. While none of us know the exact circumstances and some of us think it could be innocent play that's been misinterpreted. if it is as serious as reported, then I wouldn't be accusing any 11 year old of being evil etc. I'd be really wondering about the access to online porn and its influence.

There has been lots of debate about the changing sexual attitudes among consenting teens and actual adults. Due to the easy access to porn and what it portrays a lot of blurring with reality goes on. Porn creates a level of expectation of what women should act like in a sexual situation. While not a recent thing, its certainly more pronounced these days. Even men are under pressure in terms of dick size and performance.

Therefore its not beyond the bounds of possibility that kids may be exposed to parents using porn and even accessing it themselves in an uncontrolled environment. This can be a very disconcerting experience to kids heading towards puberty and a sexual awakening. Another poster mentioned TV earlier in the thread. The bounderies of TV soaps has been pushed to the point that things are mentioned and shown well before the watershed that are totally inappropriate for young kids as mammy and daddy sit watching them.

The relevance to this thread can't be overlooked.

Skyfloater · 06-04-2018 10:55PM

Mods, could you please close this thread.

Squatman · 06-04-2018 11:04PM

wexie wrote: »

I really genuinely don't believe that.

Now....I'm happy enough to concede I might be wrong in that belief. But I genuinely can't imagine there's such a thing as a newborn baby that already has bad in them. Made bad by poor parenting, unstable childhood, psychological trauma, poor life decisions or whatever else, absolutely.

Do I believe there are adults beyond redemption, again absolutely.

But I just cannot believe there is such a thing as babies being born that can't be turned into somewhat functioning, or at least not evil bastard, adults.

And if you have proof otherwise please keep it to yourself. I'm a cynical enough bastard as it is, please leave me this illusion. (if that's what it is)

:(:o

ahh your obviously not in touch with the teachings of the catholic church. perhaps the 11 year old wasnt baptised?

Squatman · 06-04-2018 11:06PM

Skyfloater wrote: »

Mods, could you please close this thread.

why?

Grandeeod · 06-04-2018 11:06PM

Skyfloater wrote: »

Mods, could you please close this thread.

Why???

BoatMad · 06-04-2018 11:12PM

screamer wrote: »

I think the bigger question for sure is what age kids should be made responsible for their actions? Our laws are always playing catch up outdated and archiac. In that void, our children are not being protected and more and more children are being abused emotionally and in this case allegedly sexually by peers. We must protect our children and childhood in general.

under irish law, the child can be charged and prosecuted , an entirely different question is should he. This is a very difficult situation and one where we shouldn't be speculating

Squatman · 06-04-2018 11:15PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Why???

obviously this person is of a better moral standing than us folk.

Its not catholic ireland, its a very serious matter, and one that deserves discussion or debate, particularly given two post that came out of the thread so far- (in short)
1 poster said she was abused for 4 years, at the age of 6 (hasnt garnered any attention for some reason)
1 poster mentioned working for an organisation whereby child on child abuse is out numbering adult on child abuse.

Whilst nobody should be speculating on the identity, or the innocence of either party, given what we have learned from 3 pages of the thread so far, a discussion is very much merited.

TLDR - go and be shocked somewhere else!

wexie · 06-04-2018 11:36PM

Squatman wrote: »

ahh your obviously not in touch with the teachings of the catholic church. perhaps the 11 year old wasnt baptised?

no indeed I am not. I'm a bad Catholic as Dara O'Briain would say

erica74 · 07-04-2018 07:33AM

Skyfloater wrote: »

Mods, could you please close this thread.

I think that's a very bad precedent to set. Child abuse and abuse in general went on unchecked for so long (and obviously still does) because people don't want to talk about it. It's awkward, it's uncomfortable, it's very sensitive. If not handled correctly, even more damage can be done to the victims. It needs to be handled correctly, yes, but the discussion should never be shut down.
As long as nobody identifies anyone involved, there should be no calls to close the thread.

Graces7 · 07-04-2018 09:17AM

This is learned behaviour surely? needs to look at the home, at what he has had access to in the way of porn? Internet. smart phone? Lack of parental supervision?

Rather than seeing him as some kind of monster

Also surely sex education and associated acceptable and safe behaviour is surely down to the parents? To the home.

This is not an academic issue. It is a life issue

iamwhoiam · 07-04-2018 09:21AM

Graces7 wrote: »

This is learned behaviour surely? needs to look at the home, at what he has had access to in the way of porn? Internet. smart phone? Lack of parental supervision?

Rather than seeing him as some kind of monster

Also surely sex education and associated acceptable and safe behaviour is surely down to the parents? To the home.

This is not an academic issue. It is a life issue

It can also be outside the home in fairness .Look at all the incidents of abuse that happened by a trusted sports coach or club leader or indeed another family member.But I agree that the background must be looked into and all the help given to both parties .

07-04-2018 09:25AM

Skyfloater wrote: »

Mods, could you please close this thread.

I think the specifics of this particular case shouldn’t be discussed but the discussion re child abuse or sexualisation is more important now than ever before.

There is a lot in the media recently about sex education in the school system ignoring the fact that children first educators are their families. The attitude and actions of parents, siblings and extended family has more of a bearing on the child’s behavior than sex education within the school system.

Graces7 · 07-04-2018 09:37AM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

It can also be outside the home in fairness .Look at all the incidents of abuse that happened by a trusted sports coach or club leader or indeed another family member.But I agree that the background must be looked into and all the help given to both parties .

It would be unusual for that to manifest in opposite sex abuse of this kind. This comes across as copy cat?

iamwhoiam · 07-04-2018 09:48AM

Graces7 wrote: »

It would be unusual for that to manifest in opposite sex abuse of this kind. This comes across as copy cat?

I think unfortunately it is not unusual .

https://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/abuse/Pages/child-sexual-abuse.aspx

Sexually inappropriate behaviour – children who have been abused may behave in sexually inappropriate ways or use sexually explicit language.

Graces7 · 07-04-2018 12:00PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I think unfortunately it is not unusual .

https://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/abuse/Pages/child-sexual-abuse.aspx

Sexually inappropriate behaviour – children who have been abused may behave in sexually inappropriate ways or use sexually explicit language.

I was talking to a friend who works with these children; if they have been abused by a man, t is that that they copy first and most, And that this lad;s behaviour is more likelty to be from eg child porn he has had access to

We wil of course never know. Please God someone does and can help them.

Ursus Horribilis · 07-04-2018 12:03PM

It wouldn't have to have been child porn he accessed though. All he'd have to do is look at some male/female porn on the internet and try it out for himself. Given that he was 11, a younger girl would be just who he could do it to

McGrath5 · 07-04-2018 01:32PM

I think this thread should remain open, obviously provided no individuals are identified.

Shame on the posters who are trying to neuter discussion around this difficult topic.

Graces7 · 07-04-2018 01:37PM

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

It wouldn't have to have been child porn he accessed though. All he'd have to do is look at some male/female porn on the internet and try it out for himself. Given that he was 11, a younger girl would be just who he could do it to

What a world raising our kids.. I am too old. When we were kids we knew nothing of all this. Now they ar sexualised from an early age was backstage at an irish dancing hotel a while back and the littlest girls were over sexualised

We were innocents , still kids. None of this

iamwhoiam · 07-04-2018 01:40PM

Graces7 wrote: »

What a world raising our kids.. I am too old. When we were kids we knew nothing of all this. Now they ar sexualised from an early age was backstage at an irish dancing hotel a while back and the littlest girls were over sexualised

We were innocents , still kids. None of this

Some of us were Grace . You and I might have been lucky but others were subject to horrific sexual abuse by family and by those in authority . Not all were innocents

Gatling · 07-04-2018 01:48PM

McGrath5 wrote: »

I think this thread should remain open, obviously provided no individuals are identified.

Shame on the posters who are trying to neuter discussion around this difficult topic.

The problem is what is being discussed we do have any details ,no facts and likely that's as far as reporting will be allowed in papers ,

Look at the multiple claims of the male being exposed to abuse or pornography all baseless ,

I know a lady in her 40's who been sexually active since she was 10 years old well before the internet and she definitely said she never suffered abuse of any kind ,

So whats the discussion sexualisation of children or rape that might not be actual rape ,

iamwhoiam · 07-04-2018 01:49PM

Gatling wrote: »

The problem is what is being discussed we do have any details ,no facts and likely that's as far as reporting will be allowed in papers ,

Look at the multiple claims of the male being exposed to abuse or pornography all baseless ,

I know a lady in her 40's who been sexually active since she was 10 years old well before the internet and she definitely said she never suffered abuse of any kind ,

So whats the discussion sexualisation of children or rape that might not be actual rape ,

No one claimed anything ? It was discussed as a possibility

Graces7 · 07-04-2018 01:51PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Some of us were Grace . You and I might have been lucky but others were subject to horrific sexual abuse by family and by those in authority . Not all were innocents

Less so in the Uk. And i mean the way kids dress these days. Sexual overtones

Ursus Horribilis · 07-04-2018 01:52PM

Gatling wrote: »

I know a lady in her 40's who been sexually active since she was 10 years old well before the internet and she definitely said she never suffered abuse of any kind

:eek: What do you mean by sexually active? I really hope it doesn't mean she was having sex or giving blowjobs at 10.

Two Families in Turmoil.....

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