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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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Comments

  • #8072
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,878 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    ted1 wrote: »
    These guys had a consensual threesome. Al Porter Sexually molested a co worker, where are the ads asking RTE, Today FM, TV 3 etc not to allow him back?

    Pretty sure nobody’s offering him a job at the moment.


  • #8073
    erica74
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭erica74


    Can I just ask the posters defending the group chat and texts as essentially a once off or a snapshot or whatever, do you honestly think that that one night and the following morning (or whatever time period the released messages span) are the only times these guys use that kind of language?
    "Any sluts get fucked?"
    "We are all top shaggers"
    "There was a bit of spit roasting going on last night"
    "There was a lot of spit roast last night"
    "Last night was hilarious"
    "Walked upstairs and there were more flutes than the 12th of July"
    "Did you pass spit roast brassers"
    "Why are we all such legends"
    "Pumped a girl with Jacko on Monday. Roasted her. Then another on Tuesday"

    They talk about this sort of stuff like it's a regular occurrence, and while that's fine if all involved are willing participants, the claims that there's only a few texts and these texts are an anomaly is a bit naive.
    Maybe all involved will use this as an opportunity to examine how they view women. I'm not talking about the group sex and all that fun stuff, that's grand if everyone is a willing participant, I'm talking about the way they speak. They themselves acknowledge their choice of language is bad.


  • #8074
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,876 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    cloudatlas wrote: »
    They weren't drunk it was in the morning they were sober.

    With the list of alcohol allegedly consumed I would say they were not sober.
    Would you drive a car first thing in the morning after that?

    A giddy conversation among males about a wild night out. Nothing much more to say about it. There is zero evidence in that conversation that they raped anyone and it was merely to paint them as women haters and misogynists that it was introduced as evidence at all.


  • #8075
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    almostover wrote: »
    The only mobs I ever remember hearing about were those who wore point white masks and rounded up young black men who the accused of defiling their young daughters.

    Out of curiosity (cause this whole discussion is descending further and further into farce)....does this qualify for Godwin?


  • #8076
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,876 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    jm08 wrote: »
    No, I don't care if his career is ended. I think it would be good for Ulster and the 2 lads if they left. The best thing for Ulster imo is a big clear out and a fresh start.

    Will the be checking past WhatsApp conversations of new signings? Is this what you require for a 'fresh start'?


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  • #8077
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,810 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    erica74 wrote: »
    Can I just ask the posters defending the group chat and texts as essentially a once off or a snapshot or whatever, do you honestly think that that one night and the following morning (or whatever time period the released messages span) are the only times these guys use that kind of language?



    They talk about this sort of stuff like it's a regular occurrence, and while that's fine if all involved are willing participants, the claims that there's only a few texts is a bit naive.
    Maybe all involved will use this as an opportunity to examine how they view women. I'm not talking about the group sex and all that fun stuff, that's grand if everyone is a willing participant, I'm talking about the way they speak. They themselves acknowledge their choice of language is bad.

    I'm not excatly defending the group chats but my point is people do silly things from time to time for what ever reason. It doesn't make them woman haters in my opinion.


  • #8078
    jm08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,338 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    ted1 wrote: »
    These guys had a consensual threesome. Al Porter Sexually molested a co worker, where are the ads asking RTE, Today FM, TV 3 etc not to allow him back?

    Interesting that you say that, but Oliver Callan had this to say about Al Porter.
    "His apology probably did more damage than anything because he came across as very pompous and very arrogant," he said.
    "They were really the words of someone who had lost the run of themselves.
    "It's not the Al Porter I remember meeting as an intelligent, bright, bouncy chap from Tallaght."


    Asked if he would like to see the Tallaght comedian return to the stage, Callan added: "I believe in the idea of redemption, nobody should be written off. But to get back into the public eye, you need to face point blank the allegations made against you publicly."


  • #8079
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,876 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    erica74 wrote: »
    Can I just ask the posters defending the group chat and texts as essentially a once off or a snapshot or whatever, do you honestly think that that one night and the following morning (or whatever time period the released messages span) are the only times these guys use that kind of language?



    They talk about this sort of stuff like it's a regular occurrence, and while that's fine if all involved are willing participants, the claims that there's only a few texts and these texts are an anomaly is a bit naive.
    Maybe all involved will use this as an opportunity to examine how they view women. I'm not talking about the group sex and all that fun stuff, that's grand if everyone is a willing participant, I'm talking about the way they speak. They themselves acknowledge their choice of language is bad.

    I have a different attitude to my partner and female friends and those that I respect than I have to other types of women.

    Why is that so hard to understand? My view of one type of woman is not my view of all woman kind.

    The same goes for how I view males.


  • #8080
    jm08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,338 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Will the be checking past WhatsApp conversations of new signings? Is this what you require for a 'fresh start'?

    No, thats not what I mean. They need to build a better club culture there. With a couple of Leinster lads heading up there, this is a good opportunity to rebuild it.


  • #8081
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I have a different attitude to my partner and female friends and those that I respect than I have to other types of women.

    Why is that so hard to understand? My view of one type of woman is not my view of all woman kind.

    The same goes for how I view males.

    Are you saying in the past (before current partner) you've had sex with women whom you thought of with utter contempt. Because that's the problem with Paddy and mates.


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  • #8082
    jm08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,338 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    I'm not excatly defending the group chats but my point is people do silly things from time to time for what ever reason. It doesn't make them woman haters in my opinion.

    They are not woman haters. They just view them as sexual objects to be used. The problem is that they are probably spending too much time on porn sites and its not going to end well for them.


  • #8083
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,079 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    erica74 wrote: »
    Can I just ask the posters defending the group chat and texts as essentially a once off or a snapshot or whatever, do you honestly think that that one night and the following morning (or whatever time period the released messages span) are the only times these guys use that kind of language?]quote

    Probably not the first time four fellas said that and probably won't be the last. Not really bothered either what they say amongst themselves in private.
    It's the same reason I don't ask to have a look at my daughters diary.
    It's her / their business.


  • #8084
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,876 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    Are you saying in the past (before current partner) you've had sex with women whom you thought of with utter contempt. Because that's the problem with Paddy and mates.

    In the past I was quite happy to meet with sexually promiscuous young women as I am sure they where happy to meet the male equivalent.

    Regrets, I have had a few, as I am sure women do too.


  • #8085
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,209 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    You heard wrong. She did not refer to them directly as rapists in her tweets.

    Do you have some sort of alert set up to let you know anytime her name is mentioned?


  • #8086
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,810 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    Are you saying in the past (before current partner) you've had sex with women whom you thought of with utter contempt. Because that's the problem with Paddy and mates.

    Some men I know go out and hook up with people just for the ride women also do it. They don't go out looking for a future partner that they want to marry.


  • #8087
    almostover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭almostover


    wexie wrote: »
    Out of curiosity (cause this whole discussion is descending further and further into farce)....does this qualify for Godwin?

    Hitler isn't mentioned here....


  • #8088
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    In the past I was quite happy to meet with sexually promiscuous young women as I am sure they where happy to meet the male equivalent.

    Regrets, I have had a few, as I am sure women do too.

    Men are strange creatures, quite happy to be at their most intimate with people they highly disrespect as opposed to those women you "view differently".


  • #8089
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    They arent spending too much time on porn websites, men who cant attract women do that.

    Jackson and Oldings problem was there were too many women throwing themselves at them, can you believe they had a consensual threesome on a Monday night and they went out again and found another woman to play with them on Tuesday night. What in Gods name is in this for a woman, does she seriously think Jackson and Olding have any interest in her. How in a place the size of Belfast are Jackson, Olding and the rest of the rugby team finding enough women to share between them, is the supply endless, the case certainly has shone a funny light on Belfast women, they are certainly fast bells by all accounts.

    Women who hang around night clubs waiting to be allowed into VIP sections really need to take a serious look at themselves and maybe go to some classes to learn some self respect.


  • #8090
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    'There are those who have a kind of nostalgia for the harsher days of yore. What, after all, is the complaint about, "Political correctness gone mad," but a plea to be allowed to continue bullying the kind of people who've always been bullied in the past? Only 'banter' right?

    The sporting world can sometimes be ambivalent about bullying because of a certain sympathy for what can only be described as macho nonsense.'

    Eamonn Sweeney hits the nail on the head. 25 March.


  • #8091
    erica74
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭erica74


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I have a different attitude to my partner and female friends and those that I respect than I have to other types of women.

    Why is that so hard to understand? My view of one type of woman is not my view of all woman kind.

    The same goes for how I view males.

    But, at one point your partner was just another woman, when/how did she make the transition to not being spoken about like the "other types of women"?


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  • #8092
    cloudatlas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    With the list of alcohol allegedly consumed I would say they were not sober.
    Would you drive a car first thing in the morning after that?

    A giddy conversation among males about a wild night out. Nothing much more to say about it. There is zero evidence in that conversation that they raped anyone and it was merely to paint them as women haters and misogynists that it was introduced as evidence at all.

    They weren't driving cars they were texting, they also went out to a cafe so they could all meet together unusually, without their phones to not discuss the night before... sounds sober enough to know what you're doing to me.

    You say giddy in an effort to lighten it and make it sound good, I would say it's a fairly crass conversation. The conversation was misogynist yes I agree with you there.


  • #8093
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    freshpopcorn wrote: »
    Some men I know go out and hook up with people just for the ride women also do it. They don't go out looking for a future partner that they want to marry.

    You aren't really understanding where this is at, are you. Usually people consensually hook up for sex without feeling the need to degrade that person the next day, not to mention the fact that they leave on good terms.


  • #8094
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,878 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    tretorn wrote: »
    , can you believe they had a consensual threesome on a Monday night and they went out again and found another woman to play with them on Tuesday night.

    They seemed to have a well practiced modus operandi. One of them get the woman on her own, start having sex with her before the other one suddenly appears and starts joining in.

    Doubt if there was any of this discussed or consented to before hand. I presume most of these women were probably quite drunk and young.

    The women were ****ed, cum over, tossed away and then laughed about the next day with their mates.

    Sound like a great bunch of lads.


  • #8095
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,810 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    You aren't really understanding where this is at, are you. Usually people consensually hook up for sex without feeling the need to degrade that person the next day.

    Yes I am but I am a in my twenties and I have seen both men and women do it. It's more common than people relies. People know who to have these chats and not have these chats with.


  • #8096
    Heres Johnny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Heres Johnny


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    tretorn wrote: »
    , can you believe they had a consensual threesome on a Monday night and they went out again and found another woman to play with them on Tuesday night.

    They seemed to have a well practiced modus operandi. One of them get the woman on her own, start having sex with her before the other one suddenly appears and starts joining in.

    Doubt if there was any of this discussed or consented to before hand. I presume most of these women were probably quite drunk and young.

    The women were ****ed, cum over, tossed away and then laughed about the next day with their mates.

    Sound like a great bunch of lads.

    I think you've been on pornhub a bit too much recently


  • #8097
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    They seemed to have a well practiced modus operandi. One of them get the woman on her own, start having sex with her before the other one suddenly appears and starts joining in.

    Doubt if there was any of this discussed or consented to before hand. I presume most of these women were probably quite drunk and young.

    The women were ****ed, cum over, tossed away and then laughed about the next day with their mates.

    Sound like a great bunch of lads.

    Hmmm I don't know, they do it so often I'm beginning to think the woman in the bed is just there for cover. Those boys sure do enjoy being in bed together.


  • #8098
    foxyladyxx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭foxyladyxx


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    You aren't really understanding where this is at, are you. Usually people consensually hook up for sex without feeling the need to degrade that person the next day, not to mention the fact that they leave on good terms.

    The degradation was offensive for sure but it was done in private chats . .in a boastful manner. How could they possibly have foreseen that these very chats would be made so public?


  • #8099
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,876 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    Men are strange creatures, quite happy to be at their most intimate with people they highly disrespect as opposed to those women you "view differently".

    What?


  • #8100
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,810 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    not to mention the fact that they leave on good terms.
    Most people I know who've had one night stand or had hook up had didn't really leave on any terms. The person that stayed over just left and moved on.
    The guys I know wouldn't never really leave a woman hysterical tough. They main reason why I saw women to get upset was because they cheated on their boyfriend.
    The only time I saw somebody who couldn't be calmed down was when she realised she slept with somebody and her boyfriends sister walked in. She left the place hysterical.


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  • #8101
    upandcumming
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭upandcumming


    cloudatlas wrote:
    They weren't driving cars they were texting, they also went out to a cafe so they could all meet together unusually, without their phones to not discuss the night before... sounds sober enough to know what you're doing to me.
    Here's how the conversation went:
    PJ: Here lads, let's go the café that I always go to, where all the staff know me and the rest of ye, and it's just give minutes from my place to discuss these 'sluts' and how we'll get out of this rape. Then we'll head out and do the same tonight.


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