The fall of the British Empire

gw80 wrote: »

I never said anything about glory days,
Some people are pushing this idea that Britain is going to turn into a near third world country, look at Switzerland and Norway, not in the eu, doing quite alright for themselves, i could see Britain eventually coming to a similar level and standing as these countrys

The reason Norway did so well was they kept/privatised their share of the oil in the north sea and other energy production methods, which gave them a reserve to develop their economy.

The British did/do benefit from Nothsea oil they lost out comparitely by selling their stake off to private companies. Same thing we are doing and losing out on.

Deleted User wrote: »

Since the1950s, during times of labour shortages, there were active campaigns to get the former colonials over to boost the workforce. I somehow think that the idea of them staying wasn't thought through enough. They were just seen as "resources" (no different to the way businesses look at staff these days) that could be discarded when finished with.

More recently though, they have been seen as a way of pulling wages down by employing then and undercutting locals who are forced to work for less or stay on the dole. The very people who voted leave!

True but this has been the case since the Thacher era due to the loss of unions and support for them.

My Dads uncle went to England in the fifthies as a brickie as was seen as a way of bringing down wages by the English guys on the site, but we're fine with it once they were paid more than the Irish etc.

Deleted User wrote: »

Since the1950s, during times of labour shortages, there were active campaigns to get the former colonials over to boost the workforce. I somehow think that the idea of them staying wasn't thought through enough. They were just seen as "resources" (no different to the way businesses look at staff these days) that could be discarded when finished with.

More recently though, they have been seen as a way of pulling wages down by employing then and undercutting locals who are forced to work for less or stay on the dole. The very people who voted leave!

Precisely. It is the British Tory rightwing/business class, and not the EU, which is by far most responsible for immigration. But as members of that same class own the British media and constitute most Tory politicians, the EU is scapegoated for everything and that class wrap themselves around the Union Jack while continuing to support more immigration as their means to get cheaper labour. And the local working class British population whose economic prosperity/wages is challenged by such immigration react by supporting the very rightwing business community that is most keen to keep immigration high.

Ipso wrote: »

Yeah, but no.

How so?

Deleted User wrote: »

The greatest fear amongst the EU elite (& multinational business leaders) is that if the UK finds a way to not fail and decline further

Which is precisely why Britain will fail, just like it ensured groups that undermined British power were taught a lesson throughout history. Very close to where I live is a Gallow's Hill, as there are across Ireland. It was used by the British to teach us a lesson about power every time we rose up. Every dog has his day. It's messing with the wrong crowd now, a group that can fight back and put Britain in its place.

Deleted User wrote: »

The EU has been very successful in concentrating great power (politically and financially) into the hands of a very small number of people.

The people in the UK are pulling back from that.

And who are these mysterious people? Do they include the thousands of British citizens working for the EU? And just how many people in Britain are controlling that country? 5 or 6 oligarchs own most of the British media, perhaps 1000 people own most of Britain? One, Richard Scott owns no fewer than 240,000 acres of land. One-third of Britain still belongs to an aristocracy. And where oh where is the permanent government of Britain, the civil service, drawn from? The deprived inner city schools, or Oxon and Cantab? If that's not a perpetual elite, I don't know what is.

Two of my immediate family work with the EU and have lived in Brussels since the mid-1980s. Both had a very ordinary education in local schools and got their EU jobs through an open process, not based on the school they went to or other class-based networks. None of the elite old boys network bollocksology which dominates in the British civil service. The EU has acted as a balance, a counter, to the dominance of that unelected elite, just as EU courts have acted as a check on abuses by other class-ridden British institutions.

The British plebs are clearly very happy for power to be concentrated in the hands of their betters so forgive me if all I see in Brexit is ignorant poorer English people being led like puppets on a string by a media and class which will most benefit by power being even more concentrated in their hands back in Britain.

The irony that the British economy has flourished since Britain, the basket case which was rescued by the IMF in 1976, joined the EU is always overlooked. The EU saved Britain, which had been in unmistakable decline since at least 1921, in the 1970s, and leaving the EU will end that saving.

Anthony Hilton: "I once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. 'That’s easy,' he replied. 'When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice.'"

Ipso wrote: »

Well the Irish government can't implement a payroll system for the payroll service or decide what to do on water charges, do you really trust them in getting into an industry they have no experience in?
Besides, hasn't the Corrib well not panned out as thought? Oil exploration can be a risky venture, all it would take is one exploration costing god knows what and yielding nothing for everyone to start complaining.
Besides, Norway's oil industry isn't nationalized. Venezuela's is, smashing spot I hear.

Norway have a higher stake and return in their national resources than we do however, but that's due also to inept ministers here and some have a nasty taste in their mouth given it was ray burke that rewrote the regulations and that an envalope or two might have been involved

Agree on the payroll system, but government contacts to private enterprise are always cash cows for the companies involved.

Water was due to more people power and FG realising it might cost them an election especially due to their reluctance to state it wouldn't be privatised. Having my own well and not being on a water supply, I didn't believe that I was going to see any of my taxes that go to pay for the water infrastructure returning to my pocket.

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I see Britain's admirable efforts to bring democracy to the world go on. Only yesterday they opened their first overseas military base in 40 years in Bahrain of all places! https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2017/country-chapters/bahrain
Actually, on second thoughts they are more likely there to prop up this lovely regime!
This base will have 600 military personnel, the Iranians must be gicking themselves!

I saw Bahrain was in the news a few days ago for refusing to let an Irish human rights campaigner into the country to visit a Bahraini activist who was tortured and given a life sentence on trumped up charges back in 2011. In the 5 years after then the British sold them 45 million pounds of military equipment compared to just 6 million in the 3 years before.

Mr Dooley is a member of the Gulf Centre for Human Rights and a senior advisor with Human Rights First, he claims he has been banned from Bahrain for six years for documenting human rights abuses.

He said he thinks it's vital to continue this work, saying: "Bahrain needs to be constantly challenged about it torture, its targeting of human rights activists, its banning of the political opposition.

"Preventing members of parliament, human rights groups and journalists from entering the country shows how much the regime has to hide

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/irish-human-rights-campaigner-refused-entry-to-bahrain-36774371.html