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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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Comments

  • #6272
    upandcumming
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭upandcumming


    Silentcorner wrote:
    That is after a guilty verdict.

    My mistake! Thank you for clarifying.


  • #6273
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The jury counts for six people instead of twelve. A poll on Facebook makes up the other six.

    dont be giving them ideas


  • #6274
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    tritium wrote: »
    A question though, if as per his version, he had sex with a woman who and on to him while he was extremely drunk what exactly should he apologise for? Why should he be humble?

    He has to be pragmatic now and accept that many, many people are horrified by everything around what he was involved in. You can pretend he is whiter than white, I bet he knows he isn't so he needs to admit it in order to put it behind him.


  • #6275
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    tretorn wrote: »
    The major change needed in UK law is to allow men their anonymity until such time as they are convicted of rape.
    I cant see what major changes are needed in our jurisdiction.
    Im not happy for any reduction in the rights of accused mdn to defend themselves.
    Im appalled the Belfast case was ever taken so no way do I want some sort of secret court system for men accused of rape, god knows what would go on there if we let feminist lunatics be in charge.

    The very articulate, brave, well mannered, self assured young lady at the centre of this case has provoked the biggest discussion on rape/sexual assault this island has ever seen.

    At a time when reported sexual assaults and rapes have been increasing in a worrying trend over the last number of years.

    At a time when young men in particular are now entering adulthood with a skewed expectation of sex due in large part to years of exposure to hardcore porn available on any smart phone, that no generation previous to this has been exposed to.

    As difficult as it must be to admit for some, that young lady has done a huge service and should be proud of herself.


  • #6276
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    Strazdas wrote:
    However their general behaviour that night created a lot of problems for themselves. All of them drunk, two men arriving in a bedroom completely uninvited and looking for sex where a man and woman had been alone, the subsequent WhatsApp conversations etc. This was not some unfortunate random incident that 'happened' to them....they created much of the background to it themselves.


    Yet the court and a jury of their peers found them not guilty. Meaning they did nothing wrong!

    You may not like their attitude or they way they talk to each other but here is a lesson, your opinion means nothing. Just like mine in fact. The fact is they are innocent and for some reason these childish idiots are our protesting and trying to ruin these innocent men lives just to force another issue into their over opinionated cause.

    How they talk on none of your business!


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  • #6277
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,943 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Ah come on...

    Like I have said, at least half a dozen time, a victim should have access to her own legal representation.
    :confused::confused:
    They already do.

    https://www.legalaidboard.ie/en/Our-Services/Legal-Aid-Services/Common-legal-problems/Rape-and-sexual-assault/Legal-aid-for-complainants-in-rape-and-certain-sexual-assault-cases-.html
    For a start.

    I also think that everyone from An Garda, to the Judiciary should receive and be familiar with every aspect of rape and sexual assault.
    There are specialists within the force in these areas already.
    I also think that jurors should be given an induction course to the same.

    That could be done. But I doubt any juror gets to the end of a trial in doubt about what the issues are.
    By the way, more education would help everyone sort between genuine rape cases and false rape accusations.

    Don't understand what this means.


  • #6278
    RuMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 469 ✭✭RuMan


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    He has to be pragmatic now and accept that many, many people are horrified by everything around what he was involved in. You can pretend he is whiter than white, I bet he knows he isn't so he needs to admit it in order to put it behind him.

    U dont seem to understand. Look at it from his position. He had consensual sex with a woman who falsely accussed him of rape.
    He may have to leave his home town club and may never play internationally. He's missed out on a grand slam and big financial rewards.

    Again be believes it was entirely consensual and the woman willingly had sex and changed her mind and made a false accusations.

    I accept you think he is lying but if he isnt why in the name of god would he apologise?
    He probably feels she owes him an apology.


  • #6279
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    He has to be pragmatic now and accept that many, many people are horrified by everything around what he was involved in. You can pretend he is whiter than white, I bet he knows he isn't so he needs to admit it in order to put it behind him.

    But again, why should he admit to and apologize for something he didn’t do?

    And why shouldn’t he be angry about what he’s been put through over what he believes was a consensual act?


  • #6280
    tritium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭tritium


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    He has to be pragmatic now and accept that many, many people are horrified by everything around what he was involved in. You can pretend he is whiter than white, I bet he knows he isn't so he needs to admit it in order to put it behind him.

    So in that scenario he should fake an apology after what he’s been through just to satisfy the baying mob?

    Even though he was acquitted, made no salacious WhatsApp posts and was accused of rape by a woman who according to his view came on to him while he was drunk?

    You suggestion is, after all that, he lie? Even as the victim he should do a mea culpa? Cause what you’re suggesting, in the circumstances I’ve outlines, sounds like victim blaming tbh


  • #6281
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    Christy42 wrote:
    They are protesting how people are treated as they bring forward sexual assault/rape cases. How is that letting down humanity? Strong words. I would apply that far quicker to those in the WhatsApp conversation or some of the disgusting comments I have seen on twitter towards this woman (Laois and Drogheda players amongst them).

    Their whatsapp group is home of your business and not illegal.

    Making death threats is.

    The people out protesting are the only disgusting thing right now.

    Protesting how people are treated???? How about wising up to the fact these innocent men have had their day in court, found not guilty, and how idiots are all over he country still protesting that they are rapists.

    Your type ignorance is a huge problem in our society.

    Grow up buddy
    Christy42 wrote:
    At no point were they ever proven not guilty. That is not how are justice system works. They are of course assumed not guilty. Claiming they are proven not guilty suggests that the woman is at fault and that this fact has been shown in fact. No such thing has been proven. We are in a legal state of not knowing what happened.

    Again they are innocent and there was no evidence to suggest they are guilty. Therefore they have been found not guilty.

    Grow up and leave them alone. Your realise how cope and disgusting you people are being by still saying they are not innocent right?

    Horrible


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  • #6282
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,085 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    @ RUman- Any petitions knocking around to keep Jackson at Ulster?


  • #6283
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    I think she was a complete idiot to go into a VIP section of a nightclub.
    If she wasnt looking to hook up with celebreties why go there.
    She was insane to invite herself to PJs house, he hadnt a clue who she was, she should have stayed with her friends.
    She shouldnt have followed Jackson anywhere, he wasnt bringing her on a tour of the house, he thought casual sex was on offer and he was up for it. She texted that the other womens behaviour was slutty and then she heads off with jackson, how bizarre is this.
    The other women are slutty and yet out of the four women present she ends up in a threesome with two men.
    Bizarre .


  • #6284
    kumate_champ07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭kumate_champ07


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    Advice to PJ if he wants to play again - come down off his high horse

    If I was accused of the crime he was accused of and a jury found me innocent, and I knew I was innocent but people kept saying I was guilty, I would fight back.


  • #6285
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    RuMan wrote: »
    U dont seem to understand. Look at it from his position. He had consensual sex with a woman who falsely accussed him of rape.
    He may have to leave his home town club and may never play internationally. He's missed out on a grand slam and big financial rewards.

    Again be believes it was entirely consensual and the woman willingly had sex and changed her mind and made a false accusations.

    I accept you think he is lying but if he isnt why in the name of god would he apologise?
    He probably feels she owes him an apology.

    You don't understand. Wishful thinking won't change the way lots of people now view him. I am being a better friend to him than you are because you are keeping him stuck in anger. Women are always told not to be so emotional and make bad decisions therein. Well now Paddy is where he is and anger is no good to him. Apologise for his part in the whole disgraceful debacle and ask, not demand to be allowed to return to the game he loves. The world owes you nothing and we can all be out on our ears very quickly. Same with him.


  • #6286
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    fattymuatty wrote:
    A teenager was left sobbing and bleeding through her clothes, these men thought that was something to brag and joke about. Yeah they deserve repercussions. Like it or not when your career is being a high profile sport person you are a role model, people like these should not be in that position.


    Yet she wasn't raped.....

    Stop the witch hunt


  • #6287
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    tretorn wrote: »
    I think she was a complete idiot to go into a VIP section of a nightclub.
    If she wasnt looking to hook up with celebreties why go there.
    She was insane to invite herself to PJs house, he hadnt a clue who she was, she should have stayed with her friends.
    She shouldnt have followed Jackson anywhere, he wasnt bringing her on a tour of the house, he thought casual sex was on offer and he was up for it. She texted that the other womens behaviour was slutty and then she heads off with jackson, how bizarre is this.
    The other women are slutty and yet out of the four women present she ends up in a threesome with two men.
    Bizarre .

    I find it bizarre that people haven’t taken issue with how she spoke about the other women yet are only short of demanding the four men be crucified for what they said about that night.

    The hypocrisy and double standards are staggering.


  • #6288
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    tretorn wrote: »
    I think she was a complete idiot to go into a VIP section of a nightclub.
    If she wasnt looking to hook up with celebreties why go there.
    She was insane to invite herself to PJs house, he hadnt a clue who she was, she should have stayed with her friends.
    She shouldnt have followed Jackson anywhere, he wasnt bringing her on a tour of the house, he thought casual sex was on offer and he was up for it. She texted that the other womens behaviour was slutty and then she heads off with jackson, how bizarre is this.
    The other women are slutty and yet out of the four women present she ends up in a threesome with two men.
    Bizarre .

    The only thing bizarre is that text.

    Perhaps she should just stayed at home that night eh?

    You do realise that her entire testimony and complaint was based on the fact that the threesome was not consual right?

    She claims to have left the bedroom the first time because she did not want sex.

    She was captured in a photograph at 3.50am (in the backround of a picture) ten minutes before the incident began, putting on her shoes...


  • #6289
    The Talking Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,037 ✭✭✭✭The Talking Bread


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Why are you talking about if someone is innocent and if there was consent.

    Olding was found not guilty and says there was consent, and apologised anyway.

    Jackson can despise the woman all he wants, but this is his mess. Notice how very few are talking ill of Olding in comparison to Jackson. He's been an absolute PR disaster since he was acquitted and the sponsors can point to that as well when it comes to Ulster and the IRFUs investigation.

    If I behave like they did, and all the information gets out to clients and customers of where I work, I would be sacked and I wouldn't have a leg to stand on. These boys won't either.

    Clarify what you think he apologised for?


  • #6290
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I find it bizarre that people haven’t taken issue with how she spoke about the other women yet are only short of demanding the four men be crucified for what they said about that night.

    The hypocrisy and double standards are staggering.

    It is because they are worlds apart, in relevance and context.


  • #6291
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    tritium wrote: »
    So in that scenario he should fake an apology after what he’s been through just to satisfy the baying mob?

    Even though he was acquitted, made no salacious WhatsApp posts and was accused of rape by a woman who according to his view came on to him while he was drunk?

    You suggestion is, after all that, he lie? Even as the victim he should do a mea culpa? Cause what you’re suggesting, in the circumstances I’ve outlines, sounds like victim blaming tbh

    No he should examine his conscience, understand why people are not loving him and apologise for his part in all that. That would show a bit of maturity.


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  • #6292
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,085 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    The only thing bizarre is that text.

    Perhaps she should just stayed at home that night eh?

    You do realise that her entire testimony and complaint was based on the fact that the threesome was not consual right?

    She claims to have left the bedroom the first time because she did not want sex.

    She was captured in a photograph at 3.50am (in the backround of a picture) ten minutes before the incident began, putting on her shoes...

    And was she dragged back upstairs then Nope.
    I can't see why rehashing the trial is being done. They were found 'not guilty' and as far as I know there hasn't been any mention of a retrial.

    Not guilty.


  • #6293
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    No he should examine his conscience, understand why people are not loving him and apologise for his part in all that. That would show a bit of maturity.

    His part in what? You do realize he’s done nothing wrong?


  • #6294
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    It would have been so much better for all concerned if she had gone home.
    The other women in the house had a good evening of fun with the men and none ended up in bedrooms.
    Dara Florence even managed to have a goid night while being sober.
    The sad truth is most people probably think her behaviour was completely lacking in self respect, people never think this about young men.


  • #6295
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    It is because they are worlds apart, in relevance and context.

    Both sets of texts pertain to people with whom the testers had interacted that night.

    Not so very far apart.

    It’s double standards plain and simple.


  • #6296
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,047 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    No he should examine his conscience, understand why people are not loving him and apologise for his part in all that. That would show a bit of maturity.

    You just replied to one of the best written posts in over six thousand in this thread.... with a vague call to conscience, propriety and maturity from a man whose life has been left in tatters by the woman you want him to apologise to.


  • #6297
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    His part in what? You do realize he’s done nothing wrong?

    He was cleared of rape. He did not do nothing wrong unless your standards are in the gutter. SO was cleared of rape too but he understood a human being got hurt that night and for that he spoke of regret. Man up Paddy and apologise.


  • #6298
    On The Southside
    Site Banned Posts: 1 ✭On The Southside


    What this has thought me is that being a pro rugby player is like being in Led Zeppelin in the 1970s, hordes of young women queuing up to sleep with you. I'm jealous!


    The men got a fair trial and justice was done. I hope now they can carry on with their lives and careers. They look like good lads to me, maybe bit vulgar on the whatsapp but we've all done similar and boys will be boys.


  • #6299
    tritium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭tritium


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    No he should examine his conscience, understand why people are not loving him and apologise for his part in all that. That would show a bit of maturity.

    Should his accuser issue an apology too? Or just Jackson for financial reasons? Exactly how sleazy and insincere would you like this apology game to be?


  • #6300
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    The Wordress wrote: »
    Their Lad chat really really disgusted me.

    Whatever about being found innocent of raping the girl but there was no need for the pathetic 'banter' after. So disrespectful and degrading.

    They are well paid sportsmen who should be good role models. For that alone I wouldn't let them near a pitch in an Ireland jersey.

    I think a precedent should be set about using such degrading vocabulary and their behaviour all round.

    You think going back to a house with some guys you don't know for sex is degrading? Because they were just describing what happened.

    I don't believe they thought there was any rape. No doubt they were having sex with adoring women who they didn't even know on a regular basis. Hardly the same as a long term partner or spouse. These women are literally all the same to them.


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  • #6301
    tritium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭tritium


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    He was cleared of rape. He did not do nothing wrong unless your standards are in the gutter. SO was cleared of rape too but he understood a human being got hurt that night and for that he spoke of regret. Man up Paddy and apologise.

    Ah man up, that ****ehawk expression designed to shame men into ‘being a real man’ . What utter crap, conform or be shamed’. You still haven’t given any reason why Jackson should apologize beyond to satisfy the baying mob who have no interest in whether he’s innocent or not


This discussion has been closed.
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