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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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Comments

  • #5912
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    emeraldwinter wrote: »
    On the first point that's the real world.

    On the second that's a typo ?

    Yeah, was meant to be 'that was then withdrawn.


  • #5913
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Honestly? I cannot believe these people exist in the real world.

    A moral code similar to the worst excesses of the Catholic Church going on here.

    WE WANT TO CONTROL WHAT GOES ON IN YOUR BEDROOM REGARDLESS OF THE DESIRES IN THAT BEDROOM.

    You do realise you're saying you have control of what goes on in your bed because someone else is in it right?


  • #5914
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,932 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Faugheen wrote: »
    If I try to initiate sex with someone and they tell me 'no' or even the slightest bit hesitant, I don't follow through with it.

    Exactly what is being said here.

    By the way, you don't 'try' to initiate, you just initiate, and see how it pans out. ;)


  • #5915
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,932 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Faugheen wrote: »
    You do realise you're saying you have control of what goes on in your bed because someone else is in it right?

    I'm in a partnership. I haven't forced anybody into my bed. Would you ever give over with this.


  • #5916
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,932 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I'm off to bed. Maybe I will get lucky, maybe not. But I will make sure to stay within the law. :rolleyes:


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  • #5917
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Faugheen wrote: »
    If I try to initiate sex with someone and they tell me 'no' or even the slightest bit hesitant, I don't follow through with it.

    Exactly what is being said here.

    By the way, you don't 'try' to initiate, you just initiate, and see how it pans out. ;)
    One last time.

    Nobody can consent when they're asleep.
    If they wake and you're already fingering her, then you've not given her a chance to say no until you did it without her consent.

    By then, it's too late.

    You definitely won't be getting any, because I question just how much of a sex life you have because you're so far removed from the real world (porn isn't the real world) it's silly.


  • #5918
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,932 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Faugheen wrote: »
    So you can do what you please to your partner?

    I will give over. Because you're too thick to realise what the issue is.

    There isn't an issue Faugheen and you have abjectly failed to show an issue about waking someone up with a pleasurable act they enjoyed.

    Stay out of others bedrooms, is my advice to you.


  • #5919
    OwlsZat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    Faugheen wrote: »
    One last time.

    Nobody can consent when they're asleep.
    If they wake and you're already fingering her, then you've not given her a chance to say no until you did it without her consent.

    If this is related to the trial. Daras evidence was of moaning from the bedroom as they came up the stairs. Most don't moan in their sleep.


  • #5920
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Faugheen wrote: »
    So you can do what you please to your partner?

    I will give over. Because you're too thick to realise what the issue is.

    There isn't an issue Faugheen and you have abjectly failed to show an issue about waking someone up with a pleasurable act they enjoyed.

    Stay out of others bedrooms, is my advice to you.

    I haven't taken an issue with a couple having that understanding. At all.

    You have failed to understand what could happen if the person wakes up and doesn't like that someone is performing a sex act on them while they were sleeping.

    Don't ever go near a woman. You're dangerous.


  • #5921
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    OwlsZat wrote: »
    Faugheen wrote: »
    One last time.

    Nobody can consent when they're asleep.
    If they wake and you're already fingering her, then you've not given her a chance to say no until you did it without her consent.

    If this is related to the trial. Daras evidence was of moaning from the bedroom as they came up the stairs. Most don't moan in their sleep.

    Either read the thread or don't guess what we're talking about.


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  • #5922
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,932 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Faugheen wrote: »
    I haven't taken an issue with a couple having that understanding. At all.

    You have failed to understand what could happen if the person wakes up and doesn't like that someone is performing a sex act on them while they were sleeping.

    Don't ever go near a woman. You're dangerous.

    Many relationships, married for over 20 years, 3 great children.

    You remind me of the Catholic priests of my youth, no experience themselves of what actually happens in relationships or in real life but insisting on being there moralising (quoting laws that are actually unenforceable, hence no cases) on them.
    We got rid of them for a reason.


  • #5923
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Faugheen wrote: »
    I haven't taken an issue with a couple having that understanding. At all.

    You have failed to understand what could happen if the person wakes up and doesn't like that someone is performing a sex act on them while they were sleeping.

    Don't ever go near a woman. You're dangerous.

    Many relationships, married for over 20 years, 3 great children.

    You remind me of the Catholic priests of my youth, no experience themselves of what actually happens in relationships or in real life but insisting on being there moralising (quoting laws that are actually unenforceable, hence no cases) on them.
    We got rid of them for a reason.

    You're still running the same spiel of the person enjoying it.

    A crime is a ****ing crime, you deluded moron.


  • #5924
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Faugheen wrote: »
    A crime is a ****ing crime, you deluded moron.

    Now now...

    Silentcorner wrote: »
    I faxed a printout of this thread to my professor of law in Oxford and he tutted too..."what else would you expect from islanders" is what he said...

    Your Professor of Law is sh1t3 at geography


  • #5925
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Faugheen wrote: »
    You're still running the same spiel of the person enjoying it.

    A crime is a ****ing crime, you deluded moron.

    Is it possaible to give open ended consent in your opinion.
    For example can I say to my partner you have consent to do sexy stuff to me and if I’m not in the mood I’ll tell you
    Don’t worry if I’m asleep I’ll wake up happy (or bursting for a wee and confused)


  • #5926
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Tigger wrote: »
    Faugheen wrote: »
    You're still running the same spiel of the person enjoying it.

    A crime is a ****ing crime, you deluded moron.

    Is it possaible to give open ended consent in your opinion.
    For example can I say to my partner you have consent to do sexy stuff to me and if I’m not in the mood I’ll tell you
    Don’t worry if I’m asleep I’ll wake up happy (or bursting for a wee and confused)

    If couples have an understanding, fine.

    However, in the eyes of the law, it is still a crime.

    There's nothing about opinions here. It's all about facts.

    Fact of the matter is, a person cannot consent to a sexual act if they are asleep.

    End of.


  • #5927
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Faugheen wrote: »
    If couples have an understanding, fine.

    However, in the eyes of the law, it is still a crime.

    There's nothing about opinions here. It's all about facts.

    Fact of the matter is, a person cannot consent to a sexual act if they are asleep.

    End of.

    I’m sorry your clearly wrong, I can say “I consent to you doing sexy stuff to me while I’m asleep” and then I have consented till I take away consent

    If I’m wrong show me the act that says I’m wrong


  • #5928
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Tigger wrote: »
    I’m sorry your clearly wrong, I can say “I consent to you doing sexy stuff to me while I’m asleep” and then I have consented till I take away consent

    If I’m wrong show me the act that says I’m wrong

    No no, you need to show me the act where it says I'm wrong.

    It states very clearly, as per http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2017/act/2/section/48/enacted/en/html#sec48

    (2) A person does not consent to a sexual act if—

    (b) he or she is asleep or unconscious

    A sexual act is defined as

    (a) an act consisting of—

    (i) sexual intercourse, or

    (ii) buggery,

    (b) an act described in section 3(1) or 4(1) of this Act, or

    (c) an act which if done without consent would constitute a sexual assault;

    It couldn't be more clear where the law is on this issue.

    I don't have to show you an alternative act to prove a point YOU made. I've shown you the writing which backs up my claim.

    Your move. Don't stay up all night.


  • #5929
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Faugheen wrote: »
    No no, you need to show me the act where it says I'm wrong.

    It states very clearly, as per http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2017/act/2/section/48/enacted/en/html#sec48

    (2) A person does not consent to a sexual act if—

    (b) he or she is asleep or unconscious

    A sexual act is defined as

    (a) an act consisting of—

    (i) sexual intercourse, or

    (ii) buggery,

    (b) an act described in section 3(1) or 4(1) of this Act, or

    (c) an act which if done without consent would constitute a sexual assault;

    It couldn't be more clear where the law is on this issue.

    I don't have to show you an alternative act to prove a point YOU made. I've shown you the writing which backs up my claim.

    Your move. Don't stay up all night.

    That applies to people that are asleep butvhave not given prior conscent spefically regarding cases where they are asleep
    Do you understand that I am not saying that conscent at 4pm means conscent at 4am when a person is asleep. Who are you or who is the state to take away my morning blowjobs ?


  • #5930
    Pac1Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,405 ✭✭✭Pac1Man


    What about if you use a twelve hour clock? Can I still get me blowie at either 4?


  • #5931
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Pac1Man wrote: »
    What about if you use a twelve hour clock? Can I still get me blowie at either 4?

    What if you are having sex and the partner falls asleep
    Is conscent immediatly removed
    (They didn’t passoit and arent on drugs they were just lulled to sleep by the gental rhythm ?)


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  • #5932
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Tigger wrote: »
    That applies to people that are asleep butvhave not given prior conscent spefically regarding cases where they are asleep
    Do you understand that I am not saying that conscent at 4pm means conscent at 4am when a person is asleep. Who are you or who is the state to take away my morning blowjobs ?

    Like has been pointed out numerous times already (if you bothered reading the thread), it is not likely that if there is an understanding between the partners that you will be reported.

    But by the letter of the law, it is a crime. And that is a fact.


  • #5933
    Pac1Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,405 ✭✭✭Pac1Man


    Tigger wrote: »
    What if you are having sex and the partner falls asleep
    Is conscent immediatly removed
    (They didn’t passoit and arent on drugs they were just lulled to sleep by the gental rhythm ?)

    That's one of the reasons why Rock-a-bye Baby is not a good choice of song to set the mood. Ye might get raped.


  • #5934
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Tigger wrote: »
    What if you are having sex and the partner falls asleep
    Is conscent immediatly removed
    (They didn’t passoit and arent on drugs they were just lulled to sleep by the gental rhythm ?)

    Yes it is.

    As per the Act.

    (4) Consent to a sexual act may be withdrawn at any time before the act begins, or in the case of a continuing act, while the act is taking place.

    When the partner falls asleep, they are no longer in a position to consent.

    Now, if they fall asleep during sex, and you stop. There's no problem.

    If you keep going, knowing the partner is asleep, then it's a crime and quite frankly a bit weird.


  • #5935
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Yes it is.

    As per the Act.

    (4) Consent to a sexual act may be withdrawn at any time before the act begins, or in the case of a continuing act, while the act is taking place.

    When the partner falls asleep, they are no longer in a position to consent.

    Now, if they fall asleep during sex, and you stop. There's no problem.

    If you keep going, knowing the partner is asleep, then it's a crime and quite frankly a bit weird.

    The last bit is a moral judgement
    What if it’s a micro sleep
    Like when I’m driving home after a long night shift and I blink and realise I’ve fallen asleep for a second


  • #5936
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Tigger wrote: »
    The last bit is a moral judgement
    What if it’s a micro sleep
    Like when I’m driving home after a long night shift and I blink and realise I’ve fallen asleep for a second

    You probably shouldn't be driving, then.


  • #5937
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Faugheen wrote: »
    You probably shouldn't be driving, then.

    Your missing the point


  • #5938
    spookwoman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,059 ✭✭✭✭spookwoman


    Having sex with someone who is asleep is also just weird and a little too close to necrophelia


  • #5939
    emeraldwinter
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 262 ✭✭emeraldwinter


    spookwoman wrote: »
    Having sex with someone who is asleep is also just weird and a little too close to necrophelia

    sleeping ppl are dead ?


  • #5940
    spookwoman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,059 ✭✭✭✭spookwoman


    emeraldwinter wrote: »
    sleeping ppl are dead ?
    sleeping people are unconscious unaware. There is a fetish called somnophilia where people get off on have sex with sleeping with unconscious people. It's believed Bill Cosby has it, he's before the courts for a retrial on sexual assault.


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  • #5941
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,047 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just talked to my girlfriend about this over breakfast to see what her feelings are on it.

    She said it would be assault if I didn't stop if she said no.
    She said she would expect to get woken up directly within a minute or two if she didn't wake up from the act.
    I should have a decent idea of if she'd like it before doing it. ie. Not on period and getting on well the day before etc.
    She thought it was a normal thing for couples to do and the idea of taking away consent instead of explicitly giving it is what happens in relationships.
    She said she wouldn't have liked it if I did it when we first met and she didn't know me properly, but that it wouldn't feel like assault, just that I would have been an idiot.


    That's all I really need to know on the matter. If ye all want to go by the word of the law and tell me I'm a rapist, or delusional, or a child, or a moron, fire ahead. I'm in a normal relationship with a normal woman, and this isn't something that will ever impact me.


This discussion has been closed.
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