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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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Comments

  • #5882
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Faugheen wrote: »
    Francie has said he would admit performing the act if brought in for questioning by police.

    There's your evidence.

    IF I DIDN'T STOP.
    Can you please stop with your sinister carry on here.
    YOU HAVE ALREADY PERFORMED THE ACT WHILE THE PERSON IS ASLEEP


  • #5883
    emeraldwinter
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 262 ✭✭emeraldwinter


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Well back in the 60s and up into the 70s it was illegal for a woman to refuse sex to her husband...

    At least we are progressing eh!

    Aye it is. And when the wife refuses that's that. My wife has read some of this and just tutted and walked off.


  • #5884
    emeraldwinter
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 262 ✭✭emeraldwinter


    Faugheen wrote: »
    I know how the law works, pal.

    I honestly don't think you understand what we're talking about here. We're talking about the fact performing a sex act on somebody while they sleep is illegal, and you just walk us through what the guards might do.

    If Francie admits to this to the guards under questioning then how could he be found not guilty (barring the case being thrown out for whatever reason)?

    How is it illegal if there was no conviction ????


  • #5885
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,932 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Faugheen wrote: »
    YOU HAVE ALREADY PERFORMED THE ACT WHILE THE PERSON IS ASLEEP

    And she wakes up enjoying it, does not say stop.

    Stop with your galloping with a ball of your own hyperbole and sensationalism.


  • #5886
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    emeraldwinter wrote: »
    Faugheen wrote: »
    I know how the law works, pal.

    I honestly don't think you understand what we're talking about here. We're talking about the fact performing a sex act on somebody while they sleep is illegal, and you just walk us through what the guards might do.

    If Francie admits to this to the guards under questioning then how could he be found not guilty (barring the case being thrown out for whatever reason)?

    How is it illegal if there was no conviction ????

    How is it against the law if there is no conviction?

    You mean I can go rob a bank, but because I didn't get convicted I didn't break the law?


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  • #5887
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Faugheen wrote: »
    YOU HAVE ALREADY PERFORMED THE ACT WHILE THE PERSON IS ASLEEP

    And she wakes up enjoying it, does not say stop.

    Stop with your galloping with a ball of your own hyperbole and sensationalism.
    We're talking about when she doesn't enjoy it, which is when someone would be more likely to report you.

    **** me you are actually dense. I'm out.


  • #5888
    emeraldwinter
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 262 ✭✭emeraldwinter


    Faugheen wrote: »
    How is it against the law if there is no conviction?

    You mean I can go rob a bank, but because I didn't get convicted I didn't break the law?

    Why would you not be convicted of robbing the bank ? What were talking about is entirely different.


  • #5889
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,932 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Faugheen wrote: »
    How is it against the law if there is no conviction?

    You mean I can go rob a bank, but because I didn't get convicted I didn't break the law?

    Have you ever initiated sex?

    If not - ok.
    If so - how did you do it?


  • #5890
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    emeraldwinter wrote: »
    Aye it is. And when the wife refuses that's that. My wife has read some of this and just tutted and walked off.

    I faxed a printout of this thread to my professor of law in Oxford and he tutted too..."what else would you expect from islanders" is what he said...

    To be fair, the fax is old, and it is late he might be drunk...but he agreed with me...that's the main thing!


  • #5891
    emeraldwinter
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 262 ✭✭emeraldwinter


    Faugheen wrote: »
    We're talking about when she doesn't enjoy it, which is when someone would be more likely to report you.

    **** me you are actually dense. I'm out.

    Again the lack of cases speaks volumes.


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  • #5892
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,932 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    I faxed a printout of this thread to my professor of law in Oxford and he tutted too..."what else would you expect from islanders" is what he said...

    To be fair, the fax is old, and it is late he might be drunk...but he agreed with me...that's the main thing!

    "what else would you expect from islanders''


    Really? Really? :D:D:D:D Is he Jacob Rees Moggs by any chance??


  • #5893
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Faugheen wrote: »
    How is it against the law if there is no conviction?

    You mean I can go rob a bank, but because I didn't get convicted I didn't break the law?

    Have you ever initiated sex?

    If not - ok.
    If so - how did you do it?

    Not when someone was asleep, no I haven't.

    What has that got to do with anything?


  • #5894
    emeraldwinter
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 262 ✭✭emeraldwinter


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    I faxed a printout of this thread to my professor of law in Oxford and he tutted too..."what else would you expect from islanders" is what he said...

    To be fair, the fax is old, and it is late he might be drunk...but he agreed with me...that's the main thing!

    My point is real world vs it's illegal without even going to court. Lack of cases suggest the real world works differently.


  • #5895
    Strazdas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,511 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    emeraldwinter wrote: »
    Then the Guarda would either charge or not. Then the DPP would weigh up the case and the legislation.

    If the person on the receiving end refused to cooperate with the authorities, there would no charge, trial or conviction. It would be entirely dependant on that person deciding to press charges.


  • #5896
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,932 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Not when someone was asleep, no I haven't.

    What has that got to do with anything?

    Can you answer the question asked?

    Have you ever initiated sex?

    If not - ok.
    If so - how did you do it?


  • #5897
    The Talking Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,037 ✭✭✭✭The Talking Bread


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    I faxed a printout of this thread to my professor of law in Oxford and he tutted too..."what else would you expect from islanders" is what he said...

    To be fair, the fax is old, and it is late he might be drunk...but he agreed with me...that's the main thing!

    Didn't happen.


  • #5898
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    emeraldwinter wrote: »
    Faugheen wrote: »
    We're talking about when she doesn't enjoy it, which is when someone would be more likely to report you.

    **** me you are actually dense. I'm out.

    Again the lack of cases speaks volumes.

    https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/284859/limerick-student-s-five-year-wait-for-justice-after-sexual-assault-while-sleeping.html

    I'm sure you'll find a way out of this one.


  • #5899
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Faugheen wrote: »
    We're talking about when she doesn't enjoy it, which is when someone would be more likely to report you.

    **** me you are actually dense. I'm out.

    You can understand how the case in question has caused such division...

    It was very nuanced...it was beyond the understanding of many....


  • #5900
    emeraldwinter
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 262 ✭✭emeraldwinter


    Strazdas wrote: »
    If the person on the receiving end refused to cooperate with the authorities, there would no charge, trial or conviction. It would be entirely dependant on that person deciding to press charges.

    You do know the guards can still take a case without cooperation ? I beat my wife she says out of fear I did not they can take a case on her behalf.


  • #5901
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Faugheen wrote: »
    Not when someone was asleep, no I haven't.

    What has that got to do with anything?

    Can you answer the question asked?

    Have you ever initiated sex?

    If not - ok.
    If so - how did you do it?

    I will when you tell me what relevance it has to our conversation about performing sex acts on people while they sleep.


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  • #5902
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    Didn't happen.

    It's about as likely that your mans wife read through the thread...tut tutted and walked off!!! And one is as irrelevant as the other!


  • #5903
    emeraldwinter
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 262 ✭✭emeraldwinter


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    It's about as likely that your mans wife read through the thread...tut tutted and walked off!!! And one is as irrelevant as the other!

    Mine happened though.


  • #5904
    Strazdas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,511 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    emeraldwinter wrote: »
    You do know the guards can still take a case without cooperation ? I beat my wife she says out of fear I did not they can take a case on her behalf.

    I think this one would be virtually impossible to prove without the testimony of the main "witness". The other person can say whatever they like but if the one that was on the receiving end refuses to corroborate it, it would be nigh on impossible to get a conviction.


  • #5905
    emeraldwinter
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 262 ✭✭emeraldwinter


    Strazdas wrote: »
    I think this one would be virtually impossible to prove without the testimony of the main "witness". The other person can say whatever they like but if the one that was on the receiving end refuses to corroborate it, it would be nigh on impossible to get a conviction.

    Neighbours report shouting they call she has bruises.


  • #5906
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,932 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Faugheen wrote: »
    I will when you tell me what relevance it has to our conversation about performing sex acts on people while they sleep.

    Initiating sex when there is a chance it may or may not be wanted.

    I guess you are not going to answer. I will tell you what I do as what I consider a normal person in a relationship does.

    You try, your partner says ok = great.
    Your partner says no = not so great, but there will be other times.

    i.e. how normal people behave and don't end up in a court of law.


  • #5907
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    emeraldwinter wrote: »
    Mine happened though.

    Even if it did....it is completely meaningless...


  • #5908
    emeraldwinter
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 262 ✭✭emeraldwinter


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Initiating sex when there is a chance it may or may not be wanted.

    I guess you are not going to answer. I will tell you what I do as what I consider a normal person in a relationship does.

    You try, your partner says ok = great.
    Your partner says no = not so great, but there will be other times.

    i.e. how normal people behave and don't end up in a court of law.

    I cant think of anyone who's partner initiated sex from sleeping would then call the guards. Or is that i have not become so jaded. Especially if it's a woman performing the act.


  • #5909
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Faugheen wrote: »
    I will when you tell me what relevance it has to our conversation about performing sex acts on people while they sleep.

    Initiating sex when there is a chance it may or may not be wanted.

    I guess you are not going to answer. I will tell you what I do as what I consider a normal person in a relationship does.

    You try, your partner says ok = great.
    Your partner says no = not so great, but there will be other times.

    i.e. how normal people behave and don't end up in a court of law.

    If I try to initiate sex with someone and they tell me 'no' or even the slightest bit hesitant, I don't follow through with it.

    When I have sex with my girlfriend, I make sure to ask her if she's alright.

    If during sex my girlfriend decides 'no more' then I stop.

    You know how I was able to have sex with my girlfriend in the first place? I had consent, that was then withdrawn.

    If you perform a sex act on someone while they are sleeping. They are NOT in a position to say no. How do you not get this?

    Don't come back me with the idea that they might enjoy it. I'm not referring to that. I'm referring to someone who wakes up to someone giving them oral sex completely freaking out when they see the person giving them oral sex they didn't consent for.


  • #5910
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,932 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    emeraldwinter wrote: »
    I cant think of anyone who's partner initiated sex from sleeping would then call the guards. Or is that i have not become so jaded. Especially if it's a woman performing the act.


    Honestly? I cannot believe these people exist in the real world.

    A moral code similar to the worst excesses of the Catholic Church going on here.

    WE WANT TO CONTROL WHAT GOES ON IN YOUR BEDROOM REGARDLESS OF THE DESIRES IN THAT BEDROOM.


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  • #5911
    emeraldwinter
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 262 ✭✭emeraldwinter


    Faugheen wrote: »
    If I try to initiate sex with someone and they tell me 'no' or even the slightest bit hesitant, I don't follow through with it.

    When I have sex with my girlfriend, I make sure to ask her if she's alright.

    If during sex my girlfriend decides 'no more' then I stop.

    You know how I was able to have sex with my girlfriend in the first place? I had consent, that was withdrawn.

    If you perform a sex act on someone while they are sleeping. They are NOT in a position to say no. How do you not get this?

    Don't come back me with the idea that they might enjoy it. I'm not referring to that. I'm referring to someone who wakes up to someone giving them oral sex completely freaking out when they see the person giving them oral sex they didn't consent for.

    On the first point that's the real world.

    On the second that's a typo ?


This discussion has been closed.
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