Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

hynesie08 · 31-03-2018 09:22PM

Bob_Marley wrote: »

So you think heavy drinking and being drunk on the pitch improves an athletes sporting performance ? lol this is getting better.

Ronnie o Sullivan was off his bracket on Coke and he was the best player in the world, hurricane Higgins was permanently drunk/hungover, Wade boggs once drank anywhere from 50-70 beers on a cross country flight and destroyed the Mariners.

George best?

tritium · 31-03-2018 09:22PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

Is it really that low? Couldn't be....

Pretty sure I’ve seen statistics that are far higher, (difficult to gat accurate crime stats though)

Silentcorner · 31-03-2018 09:23PM

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

I have not called you a fool, I have said your are making yourself look foolish there is difference.

Are conviction rates in Scotland more successful than the rest of the UK?
Explain to me how adding a second non convict-able option is going to improve conviction rates? For me this is the absence of sound logic....

I've already answered that....it is a deterrent...you might escape a conviction, but you may allow the jury state their belief that the victim was truthful...

If you think the use of deterrents are devoid of logic please explain...

I don't know what the rates in Scotland are...but I thought the Not Proven option had a logic to it...I stand by that...

Who are you to decide what sound logic is?

The Talking Bread · 31-03-2018 09:25PM

Bob_Marley wrote: »

As soon as you provide a credible answer :

Since when did binge drinking not effect a professional athletes ability ?

- Why is ok for a professional athlete paid to represent Ireland to be binge drinking and getting into questionable drunken situations with drunk teenage girls and put their career at risk ?

:D:D:D:D:D

You could do with a drink or maybe something stronger, Bob Marley!

Ash.J.Williams · 31-03-2018 09:26PM

Bob_Marley wrote: »

You can attempt all the perceived personal insults you like, I still have yet to be given a credible reason why it's ok for a professional athlete representing Ireland to be binge drinking and getting into questionable drunken situations with drunk teenage girls ?

That's what people do at end of season.

ShowMeTheCash · 31-03-2018 09:26PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

I've already answered that....it is a deterrent...you might escape a conviction, but you may allow the jury state their belief that the victim was truthful...

If you think the use of deterrents are devoid of logic please explain...

I don't know what the rates in Scotland are...but I thought the Not Proven option had a logic to it...I stand by that...

Who are you to decide what sound logic is?

You posted a link for NI stats

In 2016
NI - 396 reported 29 convictions that just 7% conviction rate.
Scotland for the same year - 1879 reported 98 convictions that's just over 5% conviction rate...

No NI has a better conviction rate than Scotland had for the same year but you want to adopt there system?

https://www.rapecrisisscotland.org.uk/news/news/conviction-rate-for-rape-and-attempted-rape-falls-to-lowest-level-since-2008091/

Motivator · 31-03-2018 09:26PM

Bob_Marley wrote: »

So you think heavy drinking and being drunk on the pitch improves an athletes sporting performance ? lol this is getting better.

You asked when binge drinking doesn’t affect performance, I gave you a classic and well documented example. Here are some more off the top of my head:

Paul Gascoigne was an alcoholic and recognised as one of the best players in the world. Tony Adams was an alcoholic and was captain of Arsenal. Paul Merson was an alcoholic and was a brilliant footballer.

Binge drinking was an acceptable part of the “best league in the world” in the 1990s and early 2000s.

But don’t let facts bother you.

Anyway, binge drinking played no part in this case. There as an incident after ONE night of drinking, not a week long session. Jackson and any other professional athlete can do what they want, when they want - as long as they do the business on the pitch. Not once has Paddy Jackson been painted as a guy who had issues with drink or drinking to excess. So your whole argument is complete piss.

The Talking Bread · 31-03-2018 09:26PM

Strazdas wrote: »

That culture seems to be a uniquely British / Irish thing though. You rarely if ever hear of players on the Continent binge drinking, it simply doesn't happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVG_Vd9vaYY

Bob_Marley · 31-03-2018 09:27PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

Ronnie o Sullivan was off his bracket on Coke and he was the best player in the world, hurricane Higgins was permanently drunk/hungover, Wade boggs once drank anywhere from 50-70 beers on a cross country flight and destroyed the Mariners.

George best?

You're going to have to provide some proof of this new sports science claim, that binge drinking is good for an athlete and sports person and improves their performance.

Beast and Higgins career and then lives were ruined by drink, not enhanced by it.

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2018 09:27PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

I've already answered that....it is a deterrent...you might escape a conviction, but you may allow the jury state their belief that the victim was truthful...

If you think the use of deterrents are devoid of logic please explain...

I don't know what the rates in Scotland are...but I thought the Not Proven option had a logic to it...I stand by that...

Who are you to decide what sound logic is?

That would just allow people to call defendants what they like. Which curiously seems what they want to do here.

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2018 09:28PM

Bob_Marley wrote: »

You're going to have to provide some proof of this new sports science claim, that binge drinking is good for an athlete and sports person and improves their performance.

Beast and Higgins career and then lives were ruined by drink, not enhanced by it.

Nobody claimed it was good. It does happen though, in all walks of life

Rodin · 31-03-2018 09:28PM

Motivator wrote: »

You asked when binge drinking doesn’t affect performance, I gave you a classic and well documented example. Here are some more off the top of my head:

Paul Gascoigne was an alcoholic and recognised as one of the best players in the world. Tony Adams was an alcoholic and was captain of Arsenal. Paul Merson was an alcoholic and was a brilliant footballer.

Binge drinking was an acceptable part of the “best league in the world” in the 1990s and early 2000s.

But don’t let facts bother you.

Anyway, binge drinking played no part in this case. There as an incident after ONE night of drinking, not a week long session. Jackson and any other professional athlete can do what they want, when they want - as long as they do the business on the pitch. Not once has Paddy Jackson been painted as a guy who had issues with drink or drinking to excess. So your whole argument is complete piss.

Adams served a prison sentence after a drink-driving crash.
I'd say that counts as affecting him.

Rodin · 31-03-2018 09:29PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

Ronnie o Sullivan was off his bracket on Coke and he was the best player in the world, hurricane Higgins was permanently drunk/hungover, Wade boggs once drank anywhere from 50-70 beers on a cross country flight and destroyed the Mariners.

George best?

Wade Who?
Rounders isn't a sport.

Bob_Marley · 31-03-2018 09:29PM

Motivator wrote: »

You asked when binge drinking doesn’t affect performance, I gave you a classic and well documented example. Here are some more off the top of my head:

Paul Gascoigne was an alcoholic and recognised as one of the best players in the world. Tony Adams was an alcoholic and was captain of Arsenal. Paul Merson was an alcoholic and was a brilliant footballer.

Binge drinking was an acceptable part of the “best league in the world” in the 1990s and early 2000s.

Do the sports scientists know your scientific breakthrough that drinking enhances performance and has no negative effects on an athlete . .lol

The Talking Bread · 31-03-2018 09:31PM

Motivator wrote: »

You asked when binge drinking doesn’t affect performance, I gave you a classic and well documented example. Here are some more off the top of my head:

Paul Gascoigne was an alcoholic and recognised as one of the best players in the world. Tony Adams was an alcoholic and was captain of Arsenal. Paul Merson was an alcoholic and was a brilliant footballer.

Binge drinking was an acceptable part of the “best league in the world” in the 1990s and early 2000s.

But don’t let facts bother you.
.

In fairness you didn't pick the best examples there

:D:D:D

hynesie08 · 31-03-2018 09:32PM

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Do the sports scientists know your scientific breakthrough that drinking enhances performance and has no negative effects on an athlete . .lol

When did you decide that being paid to play sports means you can't have any sort of social life? That would have more of an effect on people than the odd session.

hynesie08 · 31-03-2018 09:33PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

In fairness you didn't pick the best examples there :D:D:D

He never said they were good people, but they were great players.

Motivator · 31-03-2018 09:33PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

In fairness you didn't pick the best examples there :D:D:D

They were the three that came to mind - incidentally three of my favourite players & throw in Paul McGrath too!

irishrebe · 31-03-2018 09:34PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Do the sports scientists know your scientific breakthrough that drinking enhances performance and has no negative effects on an athlete . .lol

When did you decide that being paid to play sports means you can't have any sort of social life? That would have more of an effect on people than the odd session.

You know you can have a social life without binge drinking, or even drinking at all? I know this concept is hard to grasp for many Irish people.

Strazdas · 31-03-2018 09:35PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVG_Vd9vaYY

Maybe the reason he was tipsy was because he wasn't used to alcohol? They certainly don't have a boozing culture in any of the big football countries.

Depp · 31-03-2018 09:38PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Maybe the reason he was tipsy was because he wasn't used to alcohol? They certainly don't have a boozing culture in any of the big football countries.

There are some examples, ever hear of a little place called germany no?

Bob_Marley · 31-03-2018 09:38PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

When did you decide that being paid to play sports means you can't have any sort of social life? That would have more of an effect on people than the odd session.

When did you decide the only way a professional sports person or anyone else can have any sort of social life is by getting drunk ?

Silentcorner · 31-03-2018 09:38PM

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

You posted a link for NI stats

In 2016
NI - 396 reported 29 convictions that just 7% conviction rate.
Scotland for the same year - 1879 reported 98 convictions that's just over 5% conviction rate...

No NI has a better conviction rate than Scotland had for the same year but you want to adopt there system?

https://www.rapecrisisscotland.org.uk/news/news/conviction-rate-for-rape-and-attempted-rape-falls-to-lowest-level-since-2008091/

We have no idea of the percentage of women who do not report rape is!
We have no idea how accurate crime stats are in any jurisdiction!

We do know we are convicting appox 6-7 percent of REPORTED rape
incidents...a shocking statistic surely you agree....for a very barbaric/animalistic crime....

I don't have any preferred system, but I know ours requires change and fast...

Can you please demonstrate what you define to be sound logic...

Strazdas · 31-03-2018 09:40PM

Motivator wrote: »

You asked when binge drinking doesn’t affect performance, I gave you a classic and well documented example. Here are some more off the top of my head:

Paul Gascoigne was an alcoholic and recognised as one of the best players in the world. Tony Adams was an alcoholic and was captain of Arsenal. Paul Merson was an alcoholic and was a brilliant footballer.

Binge drinking was an acceptable part of the “best league in the world” in the 1990s and early 2000s.

But don’t let facts bother you.

Anyway, binge drinking played no part in this case. There as an incident after ONE night of drinking, not a week long session. Jackson and any other professional athlete can do what they want, when they want - as long as they do the business on the pitch. Not once has Paddy Jackson been painted as a guy who had issues with drink or drinking to excess. So your whole argument is complete piss.

It's generally believed that the fitness and skill levels in British football these days is much higher due to the binge drinking culture coming under pressure. The likes of Gascoigne, Merson and Adams probably wouldn't last 75 minutes in an EPL match these days.

AllForIt · 31-03-2018 09:40PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

You are not in touch with reality if you think a lot of professional athletes, especially those ikn a team environment don't go out drinking, especially during their holidays or celebrating something (ie the Grand Slam team celebrated A LOT, as do our own soccer team).

And Keane very much enjoyed a drink when it was acceptable to have one.

Do we know the drinking habits of the guys in question though? Did that come out in the trial?

hynesie08 · 31-03-2018 09:40PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Maybe the reason he was tipsy was because he wasn't used to alcohol? They certainly don't have a boozing culture in any of the big football countries.

There's a photo somewhere of a load of us on holiday in the Algarve in 2002 with half the Portugal football team, us steaming drunk, them even worse. Nothing to do with this discussion but a nice memory.

Although I suppose if you read the Italian red tops it might paint a different picture, and it probably seems worse here because everyone goes to the local or Coopers so it's more obvious.

hynesie08 · 31-03-2018 09:42PM

Bob_Marley wrote: »

When did you decide the only way a professional sports person or anyone else can have any sort of social life is by getting drunk ?

I didn't, but I don't hold sports people up as a pillar of society like you do. They're paid to play sports, their free time is just that, theirs.

The Talking Bread · 31-03-2018 09:42PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

He never said they were good people, but they were great players.

He suggested that their alcohol issues (which were from alcoholism, not a night out celebrating an international tour being over off season such as what Jackson and Golding were enjoying ) didn't affect their career. As good as they were and what they achieved, it is pretty clear that Adams, Mersons and especially Gazza's career was affected by their alcoholism

Silentcorner · 31-03-2018 09:43PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That would just allow people to call defendants what they like. Which curiously seems what they want to do here.

It would give us a clearer picture of where we are at in the sense that lets assume, out of every 100 rape cases that make it to court, we are still only convicting 7 people....we now know that lets just say a high percentage of the rest were Not Proven...it would give us a solid indicator as opposed to speculation where the DPP is failing its victims in securing that conviction...

It's only a suggestion by the way...very very few people are even attempting to offer suggestions...when we clearly can't leave the system as it is...

Silentcorner · 31-03-2018 09:46PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

I didn't, but I don't hold sports people up as a pillar of society like you do. They're paid to play sports, their free time is just that, theirs.

You mightn't...but their sponsors do....in fact...it is exactly for that reason that sports sponsorships are a valuable commodity....in fact...if you drive around Thomond Park (for instance) you will see players posters stuck onto pillars around the grounds...a very common sight...their contracts would reflect this also as well....

Most of us ordinary folk don't have the contracts that sports people have....

Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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