Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Silentcorner

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Anyone who talks on a subject they have not thought through generally ends up looking foolish...

Being concerned is one thing, being critical I would think requires some critical thinking which you have not demonstrated.

One of your suggestions was to not name anyone in these cases like it is here in Ireland but you then go on to say that you would assume conviction rates in Ireland are probably the same as the UK... So who am I? You have said it yourself but fail to see the contradiction in your statements. But again even this suggests would do nothing for convictions.

A number of people have asked you to provide what you think is a better solution, you have failed to demonstrate anything of sound logic or reasoning therefore you just sound foolish....

FYI calling people "muppet" and "smart boy" make you sounds about 13...

According to who? You?

I am reflecting the tone that I feel I am being subjected to....

Can you clarify what you feel is critical thinking.... you haven't demonstrated any critical thinking that I can discern....calling me a fool doesn't constitute critical thinking....

Again, what is your definition of Sound Logic, one of my solutions was to introduce a Not Proven Option for jurors...it is used in Scotland....please point out the absence of sound logic or reason with that particular point?

If I'm as foolish as you like to believe that shouldn't take you long!

Lackey

here goes nothing....

NOT ALL Lads speak about girls like the contents of the messages.
NOT ALL lads who get drunk or otherwise are potential rapists
To say otherwise, to insinuate that woman need to watch how they dress or act leads to rape insults men.

Not all women think men are trash.
Not all women speak about men using vile language

I am no prude and appreciate a good looking man as I'm sure men do women I can do that without talking like a scumbag,

If I seen a man/teenager being harressed by women in a pub I would defend that man to the last with the women and any bouncer that got involved.
its vile behaviour that has no place in society be it directed at lads or girls..
So NO ...NOT ALL women think 'if the roles are reversed its ok.

Who ever said this was a north v south because of brexit ...bull$hit...lots of people here alone could appreciate why it happened.

I think the pendulum was swung very far one way....now its swung very far the other way...It'll land in the middle when teens today ages 13/14 years old come of age. Because the majority don't give a crap who or what anyone is colour sexuality sex....and everything in between. They judge each other on weather or not they are an asshole. Nothing else comes into it.

tritium

I’m struggling to understand what the protesters actually want tbh. I know most of us would agree their are flaws in many aspects of the justice system but when it comes to a trial like this how exactly would they propose to allow the accused to defend themselves?

Let’s look at this trial for instance. Is it hard to understand why the underwear was presented, sure. Might we infer it was to make the accuser look more promiscuous? Possibly. What about the WhatsApp texts? None of them refered to anything that wasn’t essentially conceded by all parties, time that group sex had taken place. None of them add any evidential value in terms of showing any of the 4 accused considered their actions rape. They did however very thoroughly blacken the defendants. Is that any fairer? And that’s before you consider the impact this has goin forward given the 4 are not anonymous.

So, what do we change to make things fairer here? Do we just go nice on the accuser but the (presumed innocent) defendant is fair game? How exactly should we change the system, in particular with respect to a crime that generally boils down to two peoples word?

Motivator

Bob_Marley wrote: »

If they are supposed to be a professional athlete representing and playing Ireland it's everyone's concern.

No it isn’t, it isn’t whatsoever. How is it? How are the personal lives of Paddy Jackson, Roy Keane or Sonia O Sullivan any of your concern? Did you call over to Roy and have a word with him over the Saipan incident? Did you ring up Sonia and express your dismay at her for finishing out of the medals at the Olympics?

Stop talking absolute rubbish.

Bob_Marley

Motivator wrote: »

No it isn’t, it isn’t whatsoever. How is it? How are the personal lives of Paddy Jackson, Roy Keane or Sonia O Sullivan any of your concern? Did you call over to Roy and have a word with him over the Saipan incident? Did you ring up Sonia and express your dismay at her for finishing out of the medals at the Olympics?

Were Roy Keane and Sonia O'Sullivan binge drinking while being athletes for Ireland ?

Why is ok for a professional athlete paid to represent Ireland to be binge drinking and getting into questionable drunken situations with drunk teenage girls ?

ShowMeTheCash

Bob_Marley wrote: »

And I've repeatedly asked you why it's ok for a professional athlete representing their country to be binge drinking and getting into questionable drunken situations with drunk teenage girls ? Just because the court declared it was legally not rape, does not mean she was not used.

You can attempt to threaten me all you like, report it to the mods and lets see. I've reported it to them.

What are you suggesting?
Banning house parties?
Put a ban on drinking to excess?
Put a ban on men inviting legal adults back to their homes?
Put a ban on women going back to house parties with men?

People can behave "badly" if the so wish as long as they are not doing anything deemed illegal....
Perhaps you want to live in a more Orwellian type society?
Maybe you would prefer the removal of rights?
Maybe we should start constricting what people can and cannot do?

Motivator

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Why is ok for a professional athlete paid to represent Ireland to be binge drinking and getting into questionable drunken situations with drunk teenage girls ?

Because it’s his personal time. He can do what he wants.

I’m paid a salary by my company, it’s none of my company’s concern what I drink, how much of it I drink or who I ride in my house, on my own time.

You sound like a complete lunatic if I’m being honest.

Appledreams15

Silentcorner wrote: »

Jesus...it's fairly grim...

We're talking about 6/7 convictions on 2,500 alleged rape/sexual assault incidents....

This is what we want to change.

silverharp

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Were Roy Keane and Sonia O'Sullivan binge drinking while being athletes for Ireland ?

Why is ok for a professional athlete paid to represent Ireland to be binge drinking and getting into questionable drunken situations with drunk teenage girls ?

50 years ago you would have been in the legion of mary :pac:

retro:electro

Appledreams15 wrote: »

This is what we want to change.

How exactly does a poster stating “menRtrash” change that?

Silentcorner

Appledreams15 wrote: »

This is what we want to change.

Is it really that low? Couldn't be....

Bob_Marley

Motivator wrote: »

Because it’s his personal time. He can do what he wants.

I’m paid a salary by my company, it’s none of my company’s concern what I drink, how much of it I drink or who I ride in my house, on my own time.

You sound like a complete lunatic if I’m being honest.

It certainly is their business if your drinking effects your work performance.

Explain why binge drinking does not effect a professional athlete's ability to represent Ireland to their proper potential ?

ShowMeTheCash

Silentcorner wrote: »

According to who? You?

I am reflecting the tone that I feel I am being subjected to....

Can you clarify what you feel is critical thinking.... you haven't demonstrated any critical thinking that I can discern....calling me a fool doesn't constitute critical thinking....

Again, what is your definition of Sound Logic, one of my solutions was to introduce a Not Proven Option for jurors...it is used in Scotland....please point out the absence of sound logic or reason with that particular point?

If I'm as foolish as you like to believe that shouldn't take you long!

I have not called you a fool, I have said your are making yourself look foolish there is difference.

Are conviction rates in Scotland more successful than the rest of the UK?
Explain to me how adding a second non convict-able option is going to improve conviction rates? For me this is the absence of sound logic....

Bob_Marley

silverharp wrote: »

50 years ago you would have been in the legion of mary :pac:

You can attempt all the perceived personal insults you like, I still have yet to be given a credible reason why it's ok for a professional athlete representing Ireland to be binge drinking and getting into questionable drunken situations with drunk teenage girls ?

DavidLyons_

Motivator wrote: »

Because it’s his personal time. He can do what he wants.

I’m paid a salary by my company, it’s none of my company’s concern what I drink, how much of it I drink or who I ride in my house, on my own time.

You sound like a complete lunatic if I’m being honest.

Absolutely. We are talking Police State stuff the way some of these so called tolerant, open minded people are going on.

Tolerant and open minded only when everyone agrees with their ideology and ethos.

There is some really dangerous and scary sh1t being flung around regarding this case.

The Talking Bread

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Were Roy Keane and Sonia O'Sullivan binge drinking while being athletes for Ireland ?

Why is ok for a professional athlete paid to represent Ireland to be binge drinking and getting into questionable drunken situations with drunk teenage girls ?

You are not in touch with reality if you think a lot of professional athletes, especially those ikn a team environment don't go out drinking, especially during their holidays or celebrating something (ie the Grand Slam team celebrated A LOT, as do our own soccer team).

And Keane very much enjoyed a drink when it was acceptable to have one.

Bob_Marley

The Talking Bread wrote: »

You are not in touch with reality if you think a lot of professional athletes, especially those ikn a team environment don't go out drinking, especially during their holidays or celebrating something (ie the Grand Slam team celebrated A LOT, as do our own soccer team).

And Keane very much enjoyed a drink when it was acceptable to have one.

Since when did binge drinking not effect a professional athletes ability ?
- Why is ok for a professional athlete paid to represent Ireland to be binge drinking and getting into questionable drunken situations with drunk teenage girls ?

Motivator

Bob_Marley wrote: »

It certainly is their business if your drinking effects your work performance.

Explain why binge drinking does not effect a professional athlete's ability to represent Ireland to their proper potential ?

How is a night out in June affecting Paddy Jackson’s performances for Ireland? June, a month where there are no games.

Paul McGrath played centre half for Ireland in a World Cup qualifier at Landsdowne Rd while drunk and he was the best player on the pitch.

Any more rubbish you want to come out with?

hynesie08

Bob_Marley wrote: »

It certainly is their business if your drinking effects your work performance.

Explain why binge drinking does not effect a professional athlete's ability to represent Ireland to their proper potential ?

Who was he playing against the next day? If the party happened in the off season then it wouldn't effect anything. Find me a high level sportsman who doesn't indulge when they're off the clock.

Del.Monte

Bob_Marley wrote: »

It certainly is their business if your drinking effects your work performance.

Explain why binge drinking does not effect a professional athlete's ability to represent Ireland to their proper potential ?

Perhaps you would like professional athletes to have minders to make sure that they behave, eat properly and go to bed on time?

Depp

Bob_Marley wrote: »

It certainly is their business if your drinking effects your work performance.

Explain why binge drinking does not effect a professional athlete's ability to represent Ireland to their proper potential ?

If binge drinking was a reason to tear up contracts the recent grand slam celebrations, according to joe schmidt, would leave the ireland roster looking worryingly light this close to a world cup...

FrancieBrady

Motivator wrote: »

How is a night out in June affecting Paddy Jackson’s performances for Ireland? June, a month where there are no games.

Paul McGrath played centre half for Ireland in a World Cup qualifier at Landsdowne Rd while drunk and he was the best player on the pitch.

Any more rubbish you want to come out with?

They were celebrating the end of the season and the tour of South Africa

irishrebe

Ace2007 wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

So if you found yourself in the above scenario, you would not tell people you were raped and refer to the person as a rapist? You'd be happy to say the sex was consensual because the person was not convicted? You'd be happy to have people in your town gossiping about how you must have cried rape because you had gay sex and regretted it? Really, now?

In that scenario, if you didn't report him/her, and you started calling him/her a rapist, he/she could sue you for defamation.

God. Just read the post, yeah?

Motivator

Del.Monte wrote: »

Perhaps you would like professional athletes to have minders to make sure that they behave, eat properly and go to bed on time?

This guy is on the wind up but it’s brilliant, it’s not even a believable wind up!

Bob_Marley

Motivator wrote: »

How is a night out in June affecting Paddy Jackson’s performances for Ireland - June, a month where there are no games.

Paul McGrath played centre half for Ireland in a World Cup qualifier at Landsdowne Rd while drunk and he was the best player on the pitch.

Any more rubbish you want to come out with?

So you think heavy drinking and being drunk on the pitch improves an athletes sporting performance ? lol this is getting better.

The Talking Bread

Bob_Marley wrote: »

Since when did binge drinking not effect a professional athletes ability ?
- Why is ok for a professional athlete paid to represent Ireland to be binge drinking and getting into questionable drunken situations with drunk teenage girls ?

You are incessant!

Give it up!

Strazdas

The Talking Bread wrote: »

You are not in touch with reality if you think a lot of professional athletes, especially those ikn a team environment don't go out drinking, especially during their holidays or celebrating something (ie the Grand Slam team celebrated A LOT, as do our own soccer team).

And Keane very much enjoyed a drink when it was acceptable to have one.

That culture seems to be a uniquely British / Irish thing though. You rarely if ever hear of players on the Continent binge drinking, it simply doesn't happen.

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

See thejournal.ie wont allow comments on the protest. Curious!

They seem to have blocked comments on every article about this case since the verdict came out.

Bob_Marley

The Talking Bread wrote: »

You are incessant!

Give it up!

As soon as you provide a credible answer :

Since when did binge drinking not effect a professional athletes ability ?

- Why is ok for a professional athlete paid to represent Ireland to be binge drinking and getting into questionable drunken situations with drunk teenage girls and put their career at risk ?

One_Of_Shanks

Bob_Marley wrote: »

So you think being drunk on the pitch improves an athletes sporting performance.

what?