Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Uncharted · 31-03-2018 01:26PM

bigpink wrote: »

Was this in the media or an urban myth?

A well known factual story

bigpink · 31-03-2018 01:31PM

Uncharted wrote: »

A well known factual story

Links?

torqtorq · 31-03-2018 01:31PM

bigpink wrote: »

Was this in the media or an urban myth?

It leaked onto social media.

I have seen the video.

I wish I could erase that memory though time is a good healer.

Laois_Man · 31-03-2018 01:31PM

cloudatlas wrote: »

Wow a hen party as an example, well that proves it and it's all fine.

He is good in bed, well that's a nice compliment good for him, thanks for sharing.

Yeah they're sluts when on a hen, but angels the rest of the time...I know!

And friends of a girl just magically guess that the fella the friend was with the night before was ace in bed.....Its not mouthed off about at all...I know that too!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 31-03-2018 01:32PM

tretorn wrote: »

If sports clubs are going to drop every player who has casual sex and who drinks to excess there will be no one left to play.

Who do you think sponsors these sports clubs, its the alcohol industry and the sports clubs have no problem accepting this money. Its a bit hypocritical then to have an issue with young players drinking to excess when the club logo and the club premises are festooned with ads for alcohol.

No one actually cares what sports persons get up to in their own homes, wake up judgmental judys, its none of your business, are you motivated by jealousy because you dont get women hanging around VIP suites willing to go to bed with you.

Agree, but that's not what they're being dropped for.

The Jury gave its verdict, Jackson and Olding are not convicted rapists, their behaviour is no different to that of the vast majority of people in their twenties who go to night clubs and anyone pretending otherwise is a deluded fool.

Except the vast majority of us aren't representing our countries or being paid to endorse products.

The IRFU may give in to bullying by the feminist twits but they shouldnt, these men have lost two years of their lives with these accusations hanging over them, the case should never have been brought once Dara Florence said she saw a consenting threesome, do we listen to a thousand idiots marching led by Ruth no cop on Coppinger or accept the verdict as the rest of the country have.

Can do both: the verdict is not guilty, I accept that. The behaviour and attitudes expressed in the texts - which IS the issue concerning the IRFU and sponsors - were abhorrent and falls well short of what you'd expect of someone in the position of national representative or role model. That has to be accepted as well.

Uncharted · 31-03-2018 01:34PM

bigpink wrote: »

Links?

Google it...

Mokuba · 31-03-2018 01:34PM

Within the last month we had a case (in this country) where the man was convicted for having sex without a condom, when he did not have the consent to do so.

Absoultely the right decision.

See here : https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-jailed-for-rape-after-refusing-to-put-on-a-condom-during-sex-36697498.html

But they can't accept it when a case goes against their own biases.

Is it every accusation that they want found guilty? Should they not be tried on an individual basis? Is the world gone mad?

CeilingFly · 31-03-2018 01:34PM

Without getting into issues within the trial, the sideshow was very much a sectarian sideshow and many of those protesting in the south just don't understand how sectarianism permeates into all contentious areas in Northern Ireland especially with two entrenched stubborn parties refusing to agree terms of governing over some stupid nonsensical language issue.

This stupidity by BOTH the DUP and SF has reignited underlying sectarianism in the north and it has been particularly prevalent in the public gallery and for many the innocence or guilt of the accused was secondary to the different "sides" of the wall the defendants and the accuser were.

Its quite sad (I'm originally from Antrim) that the DUP and SF are allowing via their own utter stubborn stupidity, for the sectarian divide to open up just as huge progress in finally closing it was being made.

Strazdas · 31-03-2018 01:35PM

tretorn wrote: »

If sports clubs are going to drop every player who has casual sex and who drinks to excess there will be no one left to play.

Who do you think sponsors these sports clubs, its the alcohol industry and the sports clubs have no problem accepting this money. Its a bit hypocritical then to have an issue with young players drinking to excess when the club logo and the club premises are festooned with ads for alcohol.

No one actually cares what sports persons get up to in their own homes, wake up judgmental judys, its none of your business, are you motivated by jealousy because you dont get women hanging around VIP suites willing to go to bed with you.

The Jury gave its verdict, Jackson and Olding are not convicted rapists, their behaviour is no different to that of the vast majority of people in their twenties who go to night clubs and anyone pretending otherwise is a deluded fool.

The IRFU may give in to bullying by the feminist twits but they shouldnt, these men have lost two years of their lives with these accusations hanging over them, the case should never have been brought once Dara Florence said she saw a consenting threesome, do we listen to a thousand idiots marching led by Ruth no cop on Coppinger or accept the verdict as the rest of the country have.

Problem with what you are saying here is that it is of no consequence whatsoever if two senior rugby internationals are put on trial for rape, in an incident where a young woman left their house in hysterics and crying, just as long as there was a not guilty verdict in the trial.

There would be plenty who would argue that if you are an international sportsman representing your country, there is a duty on you to behave more responsibly than a nobody from a rough housing estate.

wexie · 31-03-2018 01:39PM

tretorn wrote: »

their behaviour is no different to that of the vast majority of people in their twenties who go to night clubs and anyone pretending otherwise is a deluded fool.

The vast majority of lads that age aren't expected (and contracted and paid) to be able to pose for pictures like these without public outrage.

tretorn · 31-03-2018 01:41PM

The text messages were sent in a private group and Paddy Jackson is being blamed for messages he never sent.

Are we to find out the other participants in the whatsapp group and try them for the texts they sent too.

If we have a problem with the men using the word slut then we have a problem with the woman who accused the men of rape using the word slut too, she described the three other women at the party as slutty, if the men are to be publicly scourged for using the word slut then the woman should be taken to task too.

Young woman probably would have more of an issue with being described as sluts by their own fellow woman than they would have been described like that by a man. Loyalty to the sista hood and all that.

Its all so stupid, men have always talked about women who engage in casual sex in a derogatory fashion, its not PC now though so men are more careful what they say in public. They talk exactly the way in private so hence the texts messages. Im laughing out loud thinking people actually believe young men dont talk like this, yeah right, no amount of consent classes is going to change that.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 31-03-2018 01:43PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

You don’t want to see it would be a more accurate statement I think.

No it wouldn’t. There’s a lot of posts complaining about generalisations about men but I didn’t see what they were talking about.

optogirl · 31-03-2018 01:43PM

tretorn wrote: »

The text messages were sent in a private group and Paddy Jackson is being blamed for messages he never sent.

Are we to find out the other participants in the whatsapp group and try them for the texts they sent too.

If we have a problem with the men using the word slut then we have a problem with the woman who accused the men of rape using the word slut too, she described the three other women at the party as slutty, if the men are to be publicly scourged for using the word slut then the woman should be taken to task too.

Young woman probably would have more of an issue with being described as sluts by their own fellow woman than they would have been described like that by a man. Loyalty to the sista hood and all that.

Its all so stupid, men have always talked about women who engage in casual sex in a derogatory fashion, its not PC now though so men are more careful what they say in public. They talk exactly the way in private so hence the texts messages. Im laughing out loud thinking people actually believe young men dont talk like this, yeah right, no amount of consent classes is going to change that.

Delighted you're getting a great laugh out of it. That's the way it is so put up or shut up?

Bob_Marley · 31-03-2018 01:44PM

Mokuba wrote: »

Within the last month we had a case (in this country) where the man was convicted for having sex without a condom, when he did not have the consent to do so.

He wasn't. He was convicted for rape.

Zonda999 · 31-03-2018 01:45PM

The whole "role model" thing is really a bizarre concept. Who tells anyone they are as role model and they must, from that point on behave in a certain way? What agenda's are these role models meant to be furthering,and who decides on these agenda's?

As far as I can see a role model is only a role model because someone with a loud opinion decides that they portray(or that they should appear to portray) some kind of societal agenda that they agree with.

tayto lover · 31-03-2018 01:46PM

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Do people really not see how Ireland is preceived abroad.
Had anyone been abroad for a considerable length of time, that is talking on here?
We are seen as an alcoholic, misogynistic nation.
You do know other countries don-t treat women the same way that we do?
Ive lived in Spain for a considerable length of time. I have lived in different countries (teaching English). Spain is known for having a macho culture. I was treated with 10 times more respect in Spain than I was in Ireland.
Youve got to look at ourselves. Hatred of women in Ireland has been passed from father and son down for generations. How do we change it? Do you want to continue on like this? Teach the next generation to hate?

You should try India.

LLMMLL · 31-03-2018 01:47PM

torqtorq wrote: »

It leaked onto social media.

I have seen the video.

I wish I could erase that memory though time is a good healer.

I'd take that story with a pinch of salt. At the time the story came out it did not include anything about a video. It was only years later that people started claiming a video was doing the rounds.

Basically a girl (nobody seems to know who) told a friend in a private facebook chat she had a threesome with Murray and zebo. Supposedly, the friend then made it public. Whether that's true or not there was a load of silly stuff about the girl fleeing to England and a lot of obviously made up Chinese whispers style stuff.

Any video you've seen was probably some anonymous porn that someone passed off as being real.

wexie · 31-03-2018 01:47PM

Zonda999 wrote: »

The whole "role model" thing is really a bizarre concept. Who tells anyone they are as role model and they must, from that point on behave in a certain way? What agenda's are these role models meant to be furthering,and who decides on these agenda's?

Whoever is paying the bills and whatever agenda the people paying the bills decide on.

(not saying it's not a bit odd just saying I think that's how it works. And personally I'm trying very hard to encourage my kids to look for different role models)

Dots1982 · 31-03-2018 01:51PM

If nothing else came from the trial then the Northern Ireland tourist board has a snappy catchy answer for the brochure to the question “why visit Belfast?” from mcillroys texts.

Strazdas · 31-03-2018 01:51PM

Zonda999 wrote: »

The whole "role model" thing is really a bizarre concept. Who tells anyone they are as role model and they must, from that point on behave in a certain way? What agenda's are these role models meant to be furthering,and who decides on these agenda's?

As far as I can see a role model is only a role model because someone with a loud opinion decides that they portray(or that they should appear to portray) some kind of societal agenda that they agree with.

If Shane Murphy from Coolock is filmed falling around Temple Bar drunk and shouting "F*** the English", nobody will bat an eyelid. If Johnny Sexton was filmed doing the same, it would be a whole different matter.

torqtorq · 31-03-2018 01:57PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

I'd take that story with a pinch of salt. At the time the story came out it did not include anything about a video. It was only years later that people started claiming a video was doing the rounds.

Basically a girl (nobody seems to know who) told a friend in a private facebook chat she had a threesome with Murray and zebo. Supposedly, the friend then made it public. Whether that's true or not there was a load of silly stuff about the girl fleeing to England and a lot of obviously made up Chinese whispers style stuff.

Any video you've seen was probably some anonymous porn that someone passed off as being real.

Both players upper torso's are fully visible in the video as are the girls.

Plus they are giggling and talking.

There is absolutely no ambiguity.

Icemancometh · 31-03-2018 02:00PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

I'd take that story with a pinch of salt. At the time the story came out it did not include anything about a video. It was only years later that people started claiming a video was doing the rounds.

Basically a girl (nobody seems to know who) told a friend in a private facebook chat she had a threesome with Murray and zebo. Supposedly, the friend then made it public. Whether that's true or not there was a load of silly stuff about the girl fleeing to England and a lot of obviously made up Chinese whispers style stuff.

Any video you've seen was probably some anonymous porn that someone passed off as being real.

I remember the name of the woman. She chose to leave the country for a little while after the story broke. I'm sure plenty of people remember the name as well. There's sod all chance I'll post her name here, so feel free to think I'm making this up.

anthonyjmaher · 31-03-2018 02:05PM

I remember one night I had sex with a girl. We were both very drunk at a house party in her house, and she initiated a kiss. To be honest, I probably wouldn't have chanced initiating anything, as I would have thought that she would have considered herself a few pegs above me. We ended up in her bedroom and I stayed there overnight, after all the other guests had left. We live in a small enough community, and the girl was a teacher in the local school. I got a text from her the next day saying "this is not the sort of thing that I normally do, I was very drunk. I have a reputation to maintain".

It actually scared me a little bit when she asked to meet that evening. I was thinking - f**k me, I've done nothing wrong here, but the panic in her texts made me think that she could somehow accuse me of taking advantage to save her own reputation. Now I managed to meet up with her and reassure her, but this episode made me hugely aware of what a vulnerable position I was in.

So it's fine for these women's groups to say that "If I think it in my head that I don't want to have sex, then that should suffice, and this can be applied retrospectively if I should so choose" - but it leaves a lot of decent guys in a very vulnerable and ambiguous position.

Strazdas · 31-03-2018 02:06PM

torqtorq wrote: »

Both players upper torso's are fully visible in the video as are the girls.

Plus they are giggling and talking.

There is absolutely no ambiguity.

Those two are lucky this happened several years ago. If that video was to surface now after the trial, I'd hazard a guess there would be a far more negative and hostile reaction.

Flipper22 · 31-03-2018 02:07PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Problem with what you are saying here is that it is of no consequence whatsoever if two senior rugby internationals are put on trial for rape, in an incident where a young woman left their house in hysterics and crying, just as long as there was a not guilty verdict in the trial.

There would be plenty who would argue that if you are an international sportsman representing your country, there is a duty on you to behave more responsibly than a nobody from a rough housing estate.

I think the contemporaneous messages clearly suggest that none of the three involved in the actual incident had knowledge that she was upset at the time.

ShowMeTheCash · 31-03-2018 02:09PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Agree, but that's not what they're being dropped for.

Except the vast majority of us aren't representing our countries or being paid to endorse products.

Can do both: the verdict is not guilty, I accept that. The behaviour and attitudes expressed in the texts - which IS the issue concerning the IRFU and sponsors - were abhorrent and falls well short of what you'd expect of someone in the position of national representative or role model. That has to be accepted as well.

This is dangerous because it will not stop there.

This seems to be a tactic used a lot more by extreme feminists or leftists groups. (I lean left on most things)

Target jobs and or any sponsors of anyone deemed "they enemy" and this will not stop at these players it will bleed into anyone that goes against their ideas as a means to silence them.

Wife follows a guy from a certain hotel in Dublin, he expressed an opinion around the #ibelieveher protests as being dangerous, which he is allowed to do, he points out that this has went through the court of law, due process has been carried out and now we have protesters who do not have all the facts, they where not part of the jury these last few months who are now protesting against the outcome.

He had a woman come into his hotel whilst people where eating breakfast in the last two days, basically stand up address the guests to tell them that the owner of the hotel is "pro rape" and that they should not be spending their money in his hotel......

This happened in the last two days....

So essentially if I started a protest tomorrow #Idon'tbelieveher you will have people in our society try and paint me to be "pro-rape" and do their best to get me fired from my job.......

There is some crazy feminist logic happening at the moment that is border line insane!

Ohmeha · 31-03-2018 02:12PM

A convicted rapist was playing football for Waterford against Limerick last night, no protests seen anywhere from the '#ibelieveher' bandwagon funnily enough

shamrockvilla · 31-03-2018 02:15PM

Ohmeha wrote: »

A convicted rapist was playing football for Waterford against Limerick last night, no protests seen anywhere from the '#ibelieveher' bandwagon funnily enough

He was told in no uncertain terms what he was by a section of the crowd

wexie · 31-03-2018 02:15PM

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

There is some crazy feminist logic happening at the moment that is border line insane!

To be fair I'm not sure it's 'just' feminists, I got in a raging argument with a very vocal atheist for trying to point out to him that just because he doesn't believe something doesn't mean he doesn't need to be respectful of and sensitive to other people's beliefs. Same seems to go for both (extreme) sides of the whole 8th argument etc. etc. etc.

It just seems to be the way things are done these days. Don't reason and try to convince but shout down and bully.

It's dangerous and worrying indeed.

The Legend Of Kira · 31-03-2018 02:17PM

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Agree, but that's not what they're being dropped for.

Except the vast majority of us aren't representing our countries or being paid to endorse products.

Can do both: the verdict is not guilty, I accept that. The behaviour and attitudes expressed in the texts - which IS the issue concerning the IRFU and sponsors - were abhorrent and falls well short of what you'd expect of someone in the position of national representative or role model. That has to be accepted as well.

This is dangerous because it will not stop there.

This seems to be a tactic used a lot more by extreme feminists or leftists groups. (I lean left on most things)

Target jobs and or any sponsors of anyone deemed "they enemy" and this will not stop at these players it will bleed into anyone that goes against their ideas as a means to silence them.

Wife follows a guy from a certain hotel in Dublin, he expressed an opinion around the #ibelieveher protests as being dangerous, which he is allowed to do, he points out that this has went through the court of law, due process has been carried out and now we have protesters who do not have all the facts, they where not part of the jury these last few months who are now protesting against the outcome.

He had a woman come into his hotel whilst people where eating breakfast in the last two days, basically stand up address the guests to tell them that the owner of the hotel is "pro rape" and that they should not be spending their money in his hotel......

This happened in the last two days....

So essentially if I started a protest tomorrow #Idon'tbelieveher you will have people in our society try and paint me to be "pro-rape" and do their best to get me fired from my job.......

There is some crazy feminist logic happening at the moment that is border line insane!

Quoting this part from your post.
"" Wife follows a guy from a certain hotel in Dublin, he expressed an opinion around the #ibelieveher protests as being dangerous, which he is allowed to do, he points out that this has went through the court of law, due process has been carried out and now we have protesters who do not have all the facts, they where not part of the jury these last few months who are now protesting against the outcome.

He had a woman come into his hotel whilst people where eating breakfast in the last two days, basically stand up address the guests to tell them that the owner of the hotel is "pro rape" and that they should not be spending their money in his hotel......

This happened in the last two days. ""
Where or what part of the country did this happen ?

Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Comments