Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

super_furry · 30-03-2018 04:06PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Somehow I doubt the knickers themselves were present at the trial.

Which shows just how much you know about the whole thing then.

Mrs Shuttleworth · 30-03-2018 04:07PM

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

Absolutely mental that there are people out there that can equate one night stands to hating women. That's some logic you have there. Do women not like getting "banged" or something? Do they not have one night stands and not call? Do they hate men?

I've had plenty of one night stands. I have had zero verbal consent nor do i have any signed contract of consent. But i've never raped, sexually assaulted or violated any woman sexually. And i don't hate women.

But i suppose because of those one night stands i actually do hate women deep down despite what i may tell people. And i have most likely raped a few women at some stage. That seems to be the logic at play here.

FFS he said in the second half of his post that he hates women!!!!

Can you not read??

Vladimir Poontang · 30-03-2018 04:07PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Personally I would prefer not to have men who speaks about women like they did on their whatsapp messages to be seen as a good example . I wouldn't like to think that young boys or girls would see them as heroes to look up to . Think what you like of that kind of behaviour and language about a young woman but I am entitled to my opinion too . Thankfully no men in my life would dream of demeaning women like that .

Ha, don't be so sure about that.

freshpopcorn · 30-03-2018 04:07PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I think that’s the way of it unfortunately.

We’re at the point now that if you’re a man you’re going to need to sign a contract before you so much as hold a woman’s hand to protect yourself from false accusations.

It's just something I'm a little lost with.The impression I get off some people is that it's wrong for men to treat women in such a away sexually and things need to change. So, I take it they want it banned. I just find it odd that people are trying to dictate of what two consenting adults do.
I know if the Catholic church asked for similar they'd be war.

Strazdas · 30-03-2018 04:07PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Somehow I doubt the knickers themselves were present at the trial.

And why should there be a limit to the questioning? If you make a claim it’s up to you to prove it to be true and if that involves undergoing rigorous investigation so be it.

They were in fact along with her stained jeans.

AudreyHepburn · 30-03-2018 04:08PM

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Appease nutjobs on social media?

How about to appease 50% of the population.

A quote from the lawyer for the Delhi rapist comes to mind ( lawyer for man who gang raped, murdered and pulled out intestines of woman on bus)
"India is one of the best countries in the world, there is no place for women in India".

I think some men want no women to be in this country at all. Maybe we should all feck off somewhere else. I am moving abroad actually, next week, and treatment of women in Ireland is the no.1 reason.
I remember my mother said to me, when men in her generation used to say the most vicious disgusting things about women in Ireland, she said to them "If you hate women so much, are you gay?" She couldnt understnad where the hate came from, and neither do I

That much hyperbole can’t be healthy.

Look these four young men have been found not guilty and rightly so. It’s as simple as that.

Court procedure was followed as it should be and no-one was abuse or mistreated or denied their rights.

Sidebaro · 30-03-2018 04:09PM

GreeBo wrote:

Sorry I'm confused. So he is privileged because he became a successful, famous sportsman?

No, you're right, he is the same as you and me!

GreeBo wrote:

I think people are losing the run of what privilege actually means. It's not a silver bullet point you can use when you can't actually build a supporting argument for yourself.

I didn't use privilege as an argument, I merely stated that you were adding words to a comment to suit yourself. The comment mentioned the word privilege and you claimed it mentioned white male privilege. It did not.

AudreyHepburn · 30-03-2018 04:10PM

Strazdas wrote: »

They were in fact along with her stained jeans.

Well then I’m sure there was a reason for it. For all we know this happens regularly at such trials.

You can’t treat people with kid gloves in such serious matters.

super_furry · 30-03-2018 04:11PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Look these four young men have been found not guilty and rightly so. It’s as simple as that.

Court procedure was followed as it should be and no-one was abuse or mistreated or denied their rights.

How would you know? I mean you seem to be unaware of even the most basic facts of the trial.

Fann Linn · 30-03-2018 04:11PM

hill16bhoy wrote: »

I read the screenshots of those comments.

GUBU stuff.

Why she would feel the need to be online within hours writing about the complainant's social class raises serious questions.

It's been interesting to note the cognitive dissonance at play from many posters regarding Aodhan O'Riordain's comments and the juror's.

Lots of outrage at O'Riordain mentioning their social class, yet absolutely nothing from these same posters regarding the juror bringing up the complainant's social class, in a very sarcastic, almost disparaging way.

Mr. O'Riordain was not on the jury, as far as I'm aware.

Any links to the jurors comments?

Mokuba · 30-03-2018 04:12PM

Appledreams15 wrote: »

I am moving abroad actually, soon, and treatment of women in Ireland is the no.1 reason.

I remember my mother said to me, when men in her generation used to say the most vicious disgusting things about women in Ireland, she said to them "If you hate women so much, are you gay?" She couldnt understand where the hate came from, and neither do I

This is funny.

Like there is an actual person typing this stuff.

I hope your eternal victimhood will find the utopia you desire, away from all the bad evil men.

Men bad. Women great. Got it!

Heres Johnny · 30-03-2018 04:13PM

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

Absolutely mental that there are people out there that can equate one night stands to hating women. That's some logic you have there. Do women not like getting "banged" or something? Do they not have one night stands and not call? Do they hate men?

I've had plenty of one night stands. I have had zero verbal consent nor do i have any signed contract of consent. But i've never raped, sexually assaulted or violated any woman sexually. And i don't hate women.

But i suppose because of those one night stands i actually do hate women deep down despite what i may tell people. And i have most likely raped a few women at some stage. That seems to be the logic at play here.

FFS he said in the second half of his post that he hates women!!!!

Can you not read??

I said I hate women who hate men. You know the type. Stop twisting.

AudreyHepburn · 30-03-2018 04:15PM

super_furry wrote: »

How would you know? I mean you seem to be unaware of even the most basic facts of the trial.

I didn’t know one fact about the knickers - that’s not a reflection on my intelligence or understanding of this trial and I’d appreciate it if you didn’t make such assertions.

I don’t know for sure of course but one can assume they were there for a good reason or they would have been deemed inadmissible.

spookwoman · 30-03-2018 04:15PM

Heres Johnny wrote: »

I'll state my viewpoint here.
I'm a recently retired rugby player. Played all my life. Im now quite well off (but by no means wealthy or privileged) male and im white.

Had **** loads of one night stands and messy situations through being drunk, both me and the female. Regretted a fair few and I'm sure many of the women did too. Woke up some mornings didn't know where I was or who was snoring beside me. I'm sure the feeling was reciprocated too. Had a few give out to me for never contacting them again and call me a dick but that's about it.

The thoughts that one of them could then make an allegation against me saying they didn't consent quite frankly scares the ****e out of me. Don't think there was ever any verbal consent either made by me or to me. But we just got one with things. Took 2 to tango.

I don't hate women in any way. Some of my great workmates are women.
I now coach a women's rugby team. When I was self employed in financial services my best custom came from Women, they really had their heads screwed on with financial planning. So I'm fond of the fairer sex in many many ways. I enjoy their company and I enjoy their point of view. I am in no way misogynist.
But some are just absolute nuts. I've seen some cause serious trouble for men with allegations and lies before.

I can't stand women using their perceived vulnerability because of being physically weaker and defenceless against men to go on these crusades. And I really can't stand women who hate men as a gender and constantly bang their drum and rattle out the same boring tune. Hate individual men that have wronged you by all means but go away with the stereotyping. They are evil, vindictive and dangerous. There's a movement going on and its not good. It's a mob. It's a witch hunt and men are in the firing line.

Rape is wrong, one of the vileist most despicable things a man could do to a woman but in my opinion this woman was no more raped than I was when going home drunk with a woman.

#metoo
#ibelieveher

And such other rubbish.

New hashtag

#ihatewomenwhohatemen

Leaving out the trail verdict, I agree with the so called crusaders for equality etc. Remember when men started using the #notallmen and women tore into those that said not all men are creeps etc that to me showed the true face of many. I agreed men have a right to defend their gender. You look up not all men in google and its blog after f*cking blog about some woman bitching that men don't get the point and what's the best comeback line.
You cannot even say watch yourself there are predators out there when out to someone now and it's getting worse.
I don't attend these rallies any more because of this I believe in equality and that means you are no more privileged than another. Yes rape is only done by men but women can be just as guilty of sexual offenses but you cannot say that. For my views I'm probably seen as a woman hater and sympathizer of men.

Nermal · 30-03-2018 04:15PM

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Lots of outrage at O'Riordain mentioning their social class, yet absolutely nothing from these same posters regarding the juror bringing up the complainant's social class, in a very sarcastic, almost disparaging way.

O'Riordain was suggesting they got off because of their social class. The juror brought up the complainant's social class to refute that.

Neamhshuntasach · 30-03-2018 04:15PM

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

FFS he said in the second half of his post that he hates women!!!!

Can you not read??

I think you're the one struggling to read there.

Why did you stop at 'women'? Why did you choose to ignore the part after 'who'?

I don't hate dogs. I just hate dogs that who me.

Does the above equate to me hating dogs?

Christy42 · 30-03-2018 04:15PM

Mokuba wrote: »

This is funny.

Like there is an actual person typing this stuff.

I hope your eternal victimhood will find the utopia you desire, away from all the bad evil men.

Men bad. Women great. Got it!

Given some stuff of the quotes here I get the viewpoint. Then we had the Laois footballer and Drogheda midfielder with horrible comments. There are many scumbags who say think that and it seems to me to be far worse than the I believe her that so many here get upset over.

RuMan · 30-03-2018 04:16PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Like iamwhoiam, I also found the comments disturbing.

However, I think expressions such as "sowing your wild oats before settling down" has too much romanticism attached to it. The expression, historically related exclusively to males, conjures up an image of a young man progressing to mature and responsible adulthood through gaining sexual experience as a right of passage.
The reality is probably more like a series of drunken one night stands and as someone mentioned a while back on this thread, who's a retired rugby player, filled with a certain regret and in some cases, hurt.

While I don't like the comments (WhatsApp posts) I also think that romanticising or sterilising a concept that in reality is quite a dangerous practice that often can lead to much negativity- STI's, long term emotional damage, criminal acts etc is not helpful in this modern but complex world.

There are plenty of women who speak this way. I dont take offense. I'm struggling to reconcile the level of prudishness with my own experiences

hill16bhoy · 30-03-2018 04:16PM

Fann Linn wrote: »

Any links to the jurors comments?

They were removed from Broadsheet. They were posted up as screenshots on this thread this morning but also have been removed.

What was directly quoted from the screenshots is correct however.

_Dara_ · 30-03-2018 04:17PM

I said earlier in the thread that I probably wouldn’t report it if I was raped. I still think that and for SO many reasons. I have another reason to add: I would hate to be at the heart of the media reaction in the event of a not guilty verdict. Has anyone out protesting given thought to the idea that this might be really overwhelming for the woman? I know I would be. It’s dragging the whole thing out further.

irishmoss · 30-03-2018 04:18PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Somehow I doubt the knickers themselves were present at the trial.

Yes they were, and the poor girl went bright red (as reported in the paper)

TOMs WIFE · 30-03-2018 04:18PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I hope it is the start of a move to bring what is being published online at least up to the standards of what we see in newspapers.

Though standards are of varying quality going by this article:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/martina-devlin-twotier-morality-means-girls-face-an-impossible-list-of-dos-and-donts-36757069.html

Flipper22 · 30-03-2018 04:21PM

Mokuba wrote: »

The trial was traumatic for the young woman? Hello? What about the 4 lads? Who even as innocent men cannot move on with their lives.

And as for the WhatsApp. Paddy Jackson barely said a thing on it. Show me exactly what he said. There is one of the offensive quotes which can be attributed to him. Just one.

I wouldn't even call that an offensive quote. Just a description of what happened.

From those messages, McIlroy and some other guy (not one of the 4) come across badly, Olding to a lesser extent.

Many people seem to be completely overlooking this and acting as though all four are responsible for the entire contents of the Whatsapp group. Bizarre!!

thebaz · 30-03-2018 04:21PM

ther was a case last year where a repeat violent offender , attacking women both pysically and sexually , was found guilty and then let off with Probabtion here in Dublin, i found it truly shocking yet ther was no outrage but the last 2 days have been like a civil war in Ireland over a jury decision on a case that really was not clear-cut outside the Republic of Ireland where a jury made a unanimous decision - this jury would have sat in court for the duration and heard all evidence in context , and they served up a non guilty decision - no one will know for sure what happened that night except those 5 or 6 at the house - yet Twitter and a new movement of hysteria knows what happened, much better than this jury that heard all the facts in a court of law in Belfast. Ireland really can be a screwed up place.

Mokuba · 30-03-2018 04:22PM

Christy42 wrote: »

Given some stuff of the quotes here I get the viewpoint. Then we had the Laois footballer and Drogheda midfielder with horrible comments. There are many scumbags who say think that and it seems to me to be far worse than the I believe her that so many here get upset over.

And the likes of the one from 50 pages ago, who said she would have had 4 innocent men locked up?

Bad apples on both sides. Not representative of the majority.

The world and the people in it are never going to be as you want it. Some people will say mean things. Thats life.

Fann Linn · 30-03-2018 04:22PM

_Dara_ wrote: »

I said earlier in the thread that I probably wouldn’t report it if I was raped. I still think that and for SO many reasons. I have another reason to add: I would hate to be at the heart of the media reaction in the event of a not guilty verdict. Has anyone out protesting given thought to the idea that this might be really overwhelming for the woman? I know I would be. It’s dragging the whole thing out further.

And what about the 4 men who were found not guilty?
Any sympathy for them?

Or the witness Dara who observed the act? How do you think she feels about all those protests?

Depp · 30-03-2018 04:23PM

irishmoss wrote: »

Yes they were, and the poor girl went bright red (as reported in the paper)

Was she not kept behind a screen for the duration of the trial to protect her anonymity? (as reported in the papers) Would be tough enough to gauge the color of someones face when you can't see it?

This is the one of the worst aspects of the whole thing for me, the quality of some of the so called journalism around the whole case was shocking.

Sidebaro · 30-03-2018 04:23PM

Vladimir Poontang wrote:

Ha, don't be so sure about that.

Does this mean that demeaning women is so common that it's likely we all have men close to us that do this? And worse, they hide their behaviour and trick us into believing they're sound? Interesting!

AudreyHepburn · 30-03-2018 04:25PM

irishmoss wrote: »

Yes they were, and the poor girl went bright red (as reported in the paper)

Ok I missed that, sorry, no offense was intended. I genuinely missed it. But how could she have seem them or been seen to go red when she was behind a screen the whole time?

That said I’m sure there was reason for that and you can’t go softly softly in a criminal trial.

30-03-2018 04:25PM

RuMan wrote: »

There are plenty of women who speak this way. I dont take offense. I'm struggling to reconcile the level of prudishness with my own experiences

I'm not a "prude"- I can be "disgusted" and still appreciate that such comments reflect a certain world of a number of young and not so young people. It doesn't mean that I have to accept them as "normal" or "appropriate" - because for many people, such comments aren't appropriate- but that doesn't make them a prude.

Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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