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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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Comments

  • #2942
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    paw patrol wrote: »

    .his name tarnished and linked to this trial forever now.he is the real victim in this ..

    Yes and no

    I'd be fairly sure in a few month's time, 90% of people won't even remember his name, and he'll have no problem getting on with his life

    I do feel sorry for him though, it was a real case of wrong place wrong time for him.


  • #2943
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,244 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    hill16bhoy wrote: »
    .

    Funny how the "personal responsibility" merchants tend to only ever focus on the "personal responsibility" of victims, never on the personal responsibility of criminals.
    .

    There's an assumption that people know that everyone thinks criminals shouldn't be committing crimes. Ffs, we're all supposed to be adults. That shouldn't need to be spelled out.


  • #2944
    up for anything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,790 ✭✭✭up for anything


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Are you sure misgoynist is an overused word? :rolleyes:

    Is that a Jew who doesn't like non-Jews? ;)


  • #2945
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,244 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    retro:electro wrote: »
    Can’t tell you how many times I’ve read “the four rapists” over social media today. Can’t be easy for Harrison having his name muddied in with those accused of rape and exposure. A lot of uneducated people spouting nonsense, but that’s on both sides mind you. But people should at least educate themselves on what the charges were before they assert an opinion on the case

    A tweet from an English female comedian (EDIT Elilie Taylor) popped up on my feed after being retweeted by somone I follow . It caught my eye because of the blue tick so figured I'd see what famous people were saying. Usual stuff and then "ibelieveher" . The replies were then loads of the same stuff and people pointedly calling them rapists and saying let the lads use them in civil court, knowing full well it won't happen.

    They are like the lads looting Lidl, hiding in a crowd acting like a feral mob.

    A theme of plenty of tweets seems to be people going on about how it's a disgrace she was subjected to cross examination on the stand for days. What do people want? She gives a statement and the defence can't question it?


  • #2946
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,260 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Lucy8080 wrote: »
    #Ibelieveher.

    The sober woman ,who declined to be the meat in a sandwich.

    I have a sneaking suspicion that yesterdays march was not in support of her.

    That strong woman in this case who wasn't interested in some notion of sisterhood/brotherhood and instead just tried to describe what actually happened.

    The mob don't seem too interested in standing by that "sister".

    It's a funny old world.

    Yes . So where is the " we believe her " march for that woman ?


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  • #2947
    Defunkd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 406 ✭✭Defunkd


    up for anything wrote: »
    Is that a Jew who doesn't like non-Jews? ;)
    Oy! Be careful.


  • #2948
    paw patrol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    jr86 wrote: »
    Yes and no

    I'd be fairly sure in a few month's time, 90% of people won't even remember his name, and he'll have no problem getting on with his life

    I do feel sorry for him though, it was a real case of wrong place wrong time for him.

    I really hope so but I expect he'll be well known in belfast for the wrong reasons forevermore. NI is a small place.


  • #2949
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    hill16bhoy wrote:
    There is no such thing as the personal responsibility of somebody to not be the victim of a crime.

    There is personal responsibility in placing yourself in obviously dodgy or dangerous positions where a crime is more likely to occur.
    There is only the responsibility of a criminal.

    Hardly. There is the responsibility of the individual to keep themselves safe. An example would be bringing a friend with you on a date with a stranger. It would be considered lessening the risks involved and being responsible. Same with dating someone for a long time before going back to their home alone with them.
    Funny how the "personal responsibility" merchants tend to only ever focus on the "personal responsibility" of victims, never on the personal responsibility of criminals.

    Really? Because I would believe that personal responsibility applies to all individuals involved.
    That would indeed be the misogynist coming out in you.

    Actually, no. Since you've just presumed the victim will be female. If anything you're promoting Misandry, by placing the focus on women excluding males from possibly being the victim.

    When a male is placed in a dangerous position with another man, usually the attitude is that the male should have done more to prevent it from happening in the first place. When a female is placed in a similar situation, the attitude is that the man shouldn't have put her in that position. You don't see any double standard in that perception?


  • #2950
    cloudatlas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    retro:electro wrote: »
    Can’t tell you how many times I’ve read “the four rapists” over social media today. Can’t be easy for Harrison having his name muddied in with those accused of rape and exposure. A lot of uneducated people spouting nonsense, but that’s on both sides mind you. But people should at least educate themselves on what the charges were before they assert an opinion on the case

    A tweet from an English female comedian popped up on my feed after being retweeted by somone I follow . It caught my eye because of the blue tick so figured I'd see what famous people were saying. Usual stuff and then "ibelieveher" . The replies were then loads of the same stuff and people pointedly calling them rapists and saying let the lads use them in civil court, knowing full well it won't happen.

    They are like the lads looting Lidl, hiding in a crowd acting like a feral mob.

    A theme of plenty of tweets seems to be people going on about how it's a disgrace she was subjected to cross examination on the stand for days. What do people want? She gives a statement and the defence can't question it?

    People are comparing the amount of time she was cross examined with the defendants it's quite simple really.


  • #2951
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    paw patrol wrote: »
    I really hope so but I expect he'll be well known in belfast for the wrong reasons forevermore. NI is a small place.

    I'd imagine he'll move away for a while. He was living in Sydney and came home for the trial. McIlroy had to postpone studies in the US as well so that's a chance for him to get away as well

    Honestly though this will die down in a week never mind a few years - like with any event.


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  • #2952
    py2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,845 ✭✭✭py2006


    I didn't follow it as much as others but was there anything glaring in it that suggests guilt?

    It sounds like certain women are believing her purely because she is a woman and women don't lie. Is that the case?


  • #2953
    jon1981
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    Be interesting to see the gender break down of the poll results.

    Equally, what was the gender split on the jury?


  • #2954
    posturingpat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,726 ✭✭✭posturingpat


    10.08am Complainant responded to Harrison’s message about the earphones, “yea, why? lol.”

    10.08am Complainant messaged second friend “So I got raped by 3 Ulster f**king rugby scum brilliant f**king night.”


    :confused:


  • #2955
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    cloudatlas wrote: »
    People are comparing the amount of time she was cross examined with the defendants it's quite simple really.

    Hedworth could still be cross-examining the defendants if he wanted

    They really need to ban reporting from the courtroom. So many people have not got a breeze how the process works FFS


  • #2956
    cloudatlas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    cloudatlas wrote: »
    Rubbish besides the Jordan Peterson hero says women should behave like men and fight as individuals to get what they want,

    No, he says that if women want to get ahead in male dominated industries, then they need be more assertive in the workplace.

    Very different to waving flags.
    Civil disobedience is not a plea for dominance it it a plea for reforms.


  • #2957
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Clearly, jumping to conclusions is a feature of your thought process. And did you forget that you referenced "a man that would treat them properly". Is that not positive?

    As for the low self esteem bit, that's what the OP was talking about in the post that you replied to. Forgive me if I've read your post in that context. Obviously you just quoted them in order to have a tangential rant about 'a certain type of woman'. Carry on so. No point in continuing a discussion wih someone who's so defensive as to reply with a personal atatck.

    No, jumping to conclusions is assuming women never lie about anything. And the vast majority of women are good human beings. Just as the vast majority of men are. It's the minority that ruin it for everyone.


  • #2958
    paw patrol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    jon1981 wrote: »
    Be interesting to see the gender break down of the poll results.

    Equally, what was the gender split on the jury?

    9 men 3 women


  • #2959
    cloudatlas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    professore wrote: »
    Imagine Dara Florence was a man and gave the exact same evidence in the case. What would have been the reaction?

    This thread is full of moot whataboutery.


  • #2960
    irishrebe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 612 ✭✭✭irishrebe


    professore wrote: »
    RabbleRouser2k wrote: »
    Everyone's in a rush to grow up-and thus is making mistakes that are just absolutely ridiculous.  There's even this delayed adolescence that goes on until people die-from old age,I mean-not something they do.

    I remember knowing a girl in her late teens, early 20s from a privileged background who had zero self esteem-like, pretty much every guy could hit her with a line, and she was their's.  One guy even had her as 'friends with benefits'...she desperately wanted a relationship with him, he pretty much
    used her, then said 'sayonara' when she got clingy.  I'd love to say, in the years since, she got wiser-but nope.  There's a sad 'girls are nobody unless they have a man' mentality, among many young women.

    Too many people I knew with had no issue cheating on a girl either, despite being in a relationship. (One guy I knew cheated on his girlfriend repeatedly-because she was a virgin, and so he hooked up with his ex on a night out after a few beers. More than once).

    Hell, when I was doing my LC, one of the girls in my class was pregnant during it.

    (Also, guys can often brag and 'boast' about their exploits-when really they went home and played xbox/ playstation because she wasn't interested).


    I saw an article in the examiner where the reporter was like 'this case may change how rapes are prosecuted' due to the emotional protests. And I'm sitting there like 'it was prosecuted in Belfast, Northern Ireland.  Not here, in the republic. Cases are handled way differently down here.  What the hells is this person writing?'

    Yep that's a common type of girl. They also have a nose for the most dickish men out there and have zero interest in a man that would treat them properly. Exactly the kind of guy that would boast about spit roasting etc. And the girl will tell everybody he has a side you don't see.

    I guess being treated like crap is somehow exciting to them. They are the same ones who say all men are assholes. I have little patience with women like this.

    I think a proper debate is needed about all this stuff, not a bunch of angry feminists and men's rights activists shouting at each other on twitter about how their gender never does anything wrong and the other one is evil. Having daughters has opened my eyes to how duplicitous and manipulative girls can be. I already know what some men are like. And how a lot of women focus on the wrong stuff when spotting a bad guy. Or maybe that's what they secretly want all along. Men and women are ****ty in different ways.

    If we talked honestly about stuff like this we could make a better society for everybody.

    And misogynist is the most overused word in the English language today.
    This reeks of 'Nice Guy Syndrome'.


  • #2961
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,260 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    jon1981 wrote: »
    Be interesting to see the gender break down of the poll results.

    Equally, what was the gender split on the jury?

    If its of any interest to you I am female and would have found them not guilty of rape . Thats what I would have been asked to judge them on so I would have to vote not guilty due to a niggling doubt


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  • #2962
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    py2006 wrote: »
    I didn't follow it as much as others but was there anything glaring in it that suggests guilt?

    It sounds like certain women are believing her purely because she is a woman and women don't lie. Is that the case?

    Worth emphasising

    I followed the whole thing, it was very obvious there would be no guilty verdicts.

    Maybe Harrison the only one touch and go for PCJ

    Before any of the bandwagoners caught wind of this there were lots of hearings here and there in the build up. The defence tried to get it thrown out a few times. Am surprised it wasn't tbh


  • #2963
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    cloudatlas wrote: »
    Civil disobedience is not a plea for dominance it it a plea for reforms.

    I have no problem with people protesting about anything. It's part of a healthy democracy. As is the free press, the rule of law, a fair trial and innocent until proven guilty.

    Should we look at why a defendant can be on the stand for 8 days straight? Yes we should. Perhaps having one solicitor question her for all 4 charges or something might be an option.
    Or being questioned in a separate room with her face blurred and a video shown in court of this.

    I certainly wouldn't be in favour of moving the burden of proof to "on the balance of probabilities" for such a serious crime.

    I also think identifying the defendants is wrong.

    I'm not a legal expert.


  • #2964
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,244 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    jr86 wrote: »
    Yes and no

    I'd be fairly sure in a few month's time, 90% of people won't even remember his name, and he'll have no problem getting on with his life

    Even if everything to do with this completely disappears , the 2 players have lost nearly years of their carears. careers that are short enough as it is, and are most probably in a weaker negotiating position come contract time too.


  • #2965
    posturingpat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,726 ✭✭✭posturingpat


    jr86 wrote: »
    Worth emphasising

    I followed the whole thing, it was very obvious there would be no guilty verdicts.

    Maybe Harrison the only one touch and go for PCJ

    Before any of the bandwagoners caught wind of this there were lots of hearings here and there in the build up. The defence tried to get it thrown out a few times. Am surprised it wasn't tbh

    Defence seem to think it was because of who the Defendants were. I'd be inclined to agree with them, hard to see how the verdict was ever going to go any other way with the evidence available :confused:


  • #2966
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Even if everything to do with this completely disappears , the 2 players have lost nearly years of their carears. careers that are short enough as it is, and are most probably in a weaker negotiating position come contract time too.

    I was talking about Harrison and McIlroy

    Of course it'll never leave PJ and Olding

    However PJ played for Ireland as recently as June 2017. Olding still played for Ulster all last season but was injured for lots of it. So they've only lost 1 season

    They've clearly been on a programme (the feckin size of olding as a centre!!) so they'll slot back in to any side handy enough


  • #2967
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,089 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think Jackson was definitely having pentetrative sex with her. The witness claimed so, so did the girl in question ...... Olding who was receiving oral from the same girl claimed he couldn't see what Jackson was doing. I reckon "couldn't see" was a sort of play on words as he probably wasn't looking but was quite likely 100% sure there was penetrative sex going on.

    Jackson perhaps stuck to the didn't ride her line as if there's no sex there can't be rape, IMO


  • #2968
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,244 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    jr86 wrote: »
    I was talking about Harrison and McIlroy

    Of course it'll never leave PJ and Olding

    However PJ played for Ireland as recently as June 2017. Olding still played for Ulster all last season but was injured for lots of it. So they've only lost 1 season

    They've clearly been on a programme (the feckin size of olding as a centre!!) so they'll slot back in to any side handy enough

    I was working on your 9 months timeline. That'd take us in to 2019. (Edit, don't know where I got 9 months, you posted a few months)


  • #2969
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,089 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    posturingpat wrote: »
    ........... hard to see how the verdict was ever going to go any other way with the evidence available :confused:

    I think it was felt that one of the 4 would be in tatters when questioned and trip themselves up with what was thought to be lies. McIlroy came close with his bull**** speel that agreed woth no one else .......well it agreed word for word practically with Oldings account except McIlroy seemed to put himself in Olding's place.


  • #2970
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    irishrebe wrote: »
    This reeks of 'Nice Guy Syndrome'.

    Here we go ... being nice and decent is now a syndrome. Welcome to 2018 folks.

    Any young men out there, if you are with a woman who says "patriarchy" "misogyny" "rape culture" or "nice guy syndrome" on a regular basis, run away as fast as you can. She just hates men and wants to put them into categories of either misogynists or nice guys.

    Not sure how this thread is devolving to this. I'm out.


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  • #2971
    cloudatlas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    Augeo wrote: »
    I think Jackson was definitely having pentetrative sex with her. The witness claimed so, so did the girl in question ...... Olding who was receiving oral from the same girl claimed he couldn't see what Jackson was doing. I reckon "couldn't see" was a sort of play on words as he probably wasn't looking but was quite likely 100% sure there was penetrative sex going on.

    Jackson perhaps stuck to the didn't ride her line as if there's no sex there can't be rape, IMO

    So you're saying he lied, the rabble on this thread won't like that, Blane McElroy's ability to be in three places at once hasn't been touched on either.


This discussion has been closed.
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